Season Kickoff And Guest Intro

Vipul Bindra 0:04

Welcome to another season of Studio V Sessions with me, Bindra. In case you've never seen this podcast before, I am Vipal Bendra. I own Bindra Productions here in Orlando, Florida. And I can believe I've already done two seasons of this, so 20 episodes each. This would be like the 41st episode, which is crazy. Uh, but like I said, I uh, you know, was going on these long trips and I just wanted to have these incredible conversations with other filmmakers. And I was like, you know, I would I would be on these trips, like I said, with other filmmakers, and when we would have these conversations, I was like, oh, it'd be incredible instead of listening to music or whatever. I had content like this to listen to because even though it may not be two hours of entertainment, there were these golden nuggets in these conversations as that I was like, oh, if I could only hear that, that helped me be a better filmmaker, right? And so that's basically how this podcast started. I've I've really enjoyed bringing different guests, and that's the goal of this season is to bring all new people and hopefully from different experience points, so you can get different perspectives and and just you know find some valuable information and worst case, just entertainment. Because I'd rather listen to people who think like me than just random people talk about random things. Anyway, so welcome to season three. It's essentially the same thing, but kind of different and better. And uh to kick it off, I've got a really good friend of mine, Matt Matthew. He's an amazing cinematographer, but he does a little bit of everything, and we'll get into that. But welcome, Matt.

Matthew Lopez 1:32

Thank you, thank you. Uh it's a pleasure. I'm excited to kind of just go for it and start talking about anything. I love film, it's kind of my my whole like I guess existence, you know. Once you get brought up like as a kid, you just you you focus on that, you don't change it. You just like it's kind of like one of those things where, like, you know, once you find out this is the thing you want to do in life, you just it's it's hard to convince yourself otherwise, even if hundreds of people tell you it's a bad idea.

Why Attitude Beats Pure Talent

Vipul Bindra 2:00

And you know, that's the thing I liked about you. What's crazy is we've, you know, I've had people here I've obviously known for years and years. You're somebody I've actually only known less than a year. But what was crazy is how many projects we've done together. Because um, the easiest way I can put it is you have this infectious energy. As soon as you know, I met you, I immediately knew we were gonna connect. And and it was incredible. You know, some people are like that, and I feel like you're that type of person that you want to have on set because not only are you talented, which is a great, great thing to have, but I'm saying you're a great person to be around because my issue is like there's a lot of talented filmmakers, but they're not sometimes passionate about it. You know what I mean? And then it's like, sure, you're talented, but I don't want to be on set with somebody who's like bringing down the energy or whatever.

Matthew Lopez 2:43

I mean, that yeah, I do agree. That's kind of like that's the whole point, is like you can have people that are talented. This, I mean, this is something I learned when I was in college when I took my film degree. It's like uh one of the professors says is that, you know, you can you can be the most talented person in the room. You can have like the PhD of filmmaking, but the thing that matters the most isn't that. It's the the quality of a person you are. Like, I at least from a business standpoint, I would rather hire someone who knows, like, I guess a majority of the things, but not to a professional standpoint. But they're hard workers than someone who knows everything. Because you get more out of them in the end, because they're more, like you said, more willing to invest into the project, more willing to put more passion into the project. And those things I think are like qualities that in general, as a person, at least even in this industry, but in general, it's something that you look for, you know. And um, I think that's like the main thing to take away from that kind of perspective is that you gotta come in with like that kind of mentality. You can't just come in thinking, oh yeah, I've done 300 uh short films and I own an RE and then that gives me the right to act like a dick. It's like that's not how that works. Yeah, exactly.

Vipul Bindra 3:49

And I like it, like you said, and I think it makes you a better person because guess what? Um, you know, or or better cinematographer rather, because um filmmaking is a collaborative art form. So what I'm saying is like if you're on set and you're actually collaborative, you know, you it's gonna make you a better filmmaker and it's gonna get your output better. So you could go from a mediocre uh you know filmmaker, I'm saying, and if you're actually a good person, it's gonna make you come out as a better cinematographer too. So there's there's pros about it. Plus, you get hired more often.

Matthew Lopez 4:18

And I feel like, you know, the the thing is like uh when you're filming, I think in a general, at least from the the the the DP standpoint of things, like you know, it's a it's a subjective way of saying like there's not a perfect way of filming something. You know, you we're not expected to like like follow up like there's a general format, but there's not like this, like this medium shot is the medium shot you do things, especially when you're on creative sets, like the whole point is to bring your own perspective and be talented and be like you said, passionate about something. So that going back to that like whole, like if you're not passionate about it or you're not motivated to do these things, you're not gonna be creative enough to come up with ideas. And you can tell, you can tell immediately, like the person's not as involved into it, the person doesn't give you the 100%. Like, I will believe the like you're telling me that this medium shot or this wide or this weird like angle is like super essential to the film because in your mind you think this is gonna be the greatest thing in the world. That feels more like I guess captivating and more interesting to follow than someone that says, Yeah, I'm just giving you like a bunch of coverages and stuff like that. And actually, going to that kind of conversation

Creative DPs Versus Coverage Thinking

Matthew Lopez 5:20

about coverage, it kind of relates the same way. A lot of people, when they go on sets, at least when we're filming things, they try to get like the basic foundations of something. Like, oh, I need this wide, I need this medium, I need this close-up. It's fine, but this is where, like, like you said, how this kind of stands you out of the group. That's the type of DP that I would hire for maybe like a corporate thing or something simple, but for like a feature film, something large and like budget heavy, I want someone who thinks out of the box. I want someone to come into the set with like fresh eyes and fresh mentality, and it has to be creative. They almost have to be, in a sense, an artist. You know, this isn't like a you know freelancing job where you just write papers and it's not corporate. It can be, but that's what I'm saying. But like in the film industry of movies and the stuff we're talking about, the stuff that, like, at least with filmmakers, that's like the end goal, that's like the passion project. You always want to be in one of those in your lifetime because that's where we got the inspiration from was from movies and from TV shows. So, like, going off of that, you know, that kind of perspective, that kind of goal, or at least once in your life you want to hit like being a great DP, like the ones we all talk about, they all of them come with that mindset. They don't come into a set thinking I need to get all these coverages. They're thinking, I'm gonna spend like an entire day on one shot. Yeah. Oh, this one shot that will like sell the whole freaking film. Because in their mind, they're painting a canvas and everything has to be like envisionized in their head. Everything has to be like, it's it's like it's not as plain as black and white to them. It's very like complex, it's very like overthought, you know. If they if they're overthinking a shot, then it gives you a sign that maybe they are they are like generally thinking about it a lot more than someone who just gives you just a shot list with like five shots and or 30 shots. Yeah, that's another red flag. I would say like if if someone gave you a shot list and it's like a hundred shots in there and it's like a short film that's like four minutes, that's a red flag because you you're already getting a perspective. This guy doesn't know really what he wants, and he's just doing it based on what he assumes.

Vipul Bindra 7:16

And I'm my thing is I actually am not even a fan of that. Like a lot of cuts. I mean, obviously, if you need a cut for storytelling, cut it. But like normally, I actually like you know, where the camera should disappear personally. That's my style. As in, you know, you should be engaged in the story, and if you find the best stories, the best movies, uh, you know, like you're not why you're not noticing, I'm saying, cuts and shots, right? As a as at least a normal person. And I like you said, that's one of the easiest ways to notice an amateur or somebody green, is they'll they'll overdo it with with shots, and then that the movies just cut, cut, cut, cut, and you you it's jarring because at the end day, unless it's necessary to move the story forward or to tell a story, why are we even cutting?

Matthew Lopez 7:59

Look at adolescents, and I know we'll talk about that more in a in a second because of Ronan and 4D, but uh you know, I I'm not saying everything has to be a one take, but it looks incredible because you know, so much thought yeah, exactly, and then the camera is where it needs to be, and they had to put that thought because they can't really cut, you know, it's an essential part of that, you know, and then like you're talking about how a a like the red, like the the red flags of a green person is coming in with expect they trying to over like estimate the situation or like try to like make the scene bigger than what it is. That that fear is actually like because you know you they might not be doing it intentionally, they might not come with ego, but because like I I feel like the problem with this this industry is that a lot of the people that are up there, they are usually unless they talk to them, they feel like they're these these big idle things that aren't like physically capable. So in their mind, they're like, I need to like reach that kind of perspective, I need to act that kind of perspective because that's how they promote themselves. But reality is you haven't talked to them, you don't even know who they are as a person, they might be different. And what I'm trying to get to uh to that point is that you know, that's why I think a lot of like newbie filmmakers or just cinematographers come in with that, like, I need to make 30 shots because I need to make it make me look professional. But it's like, no, that that's that's a turnoff, actually. If someone sees that, that you they expect a lot from you. Don't put that expectation on them. Yeah, come with an open mind, come with like not knowing anything, come with like a perspective of like I'm here to learn. Like, I I have my I know my talents, I know my my my level of degree of what I like know I'm good at, but like admit to your own flaws. I would honestly rather work with someone like that because then I know where we can get to, I know the limitations, and I know what we can do to like improve on that because the guy's open to doing that, you know. Exactly. It's a whole different perspective. I come here with this guy that like thinks he needs to do this, all this stuff, and he doesn't let me know. So I'm assuming this guy has like this this whole thing planned out, and then in the end, he doesn't, you know, he's like winging it. And it it it like that's like how you can tell between a good group of people and a bad, it's like that concept. Like everyone's gotta be kind of open. It's a freelance. This this job is a freelancing group project, you know, like everyone's collaborating, right? It's not a it's not a like I have this specific job and I won't talk to anybody else. Like maybe in larger productions, but I would argue otherwise no, because like even in that kind of perspective, you know, we're following rules, we're still collaborating, we're still open-minded to giving each other notes and adjustments, and we need to be open-minded to our mistakes. Like, even the biggest directors, what do they end up like hanging out with? They're best friends or the people they know because that they know their flaws, they know their mistakes, but they rely on them because that they're they're an open book, they know the person. It's it's connection, it's connectivity, but it's also honesty. Honesty is the main thing. People are fear like filmmaking feels like a like uh I need to like pitch my deck in two seconds, and then after that, no one knows me ever again. No, it's like if you sit and go to a coffee stand and talk to them, it works. If you if you generally like put the time and effort to humanize yourself, the likely chance that they will call you back, the likely chance that they'll use you again, it's it's a it's it's an important thing. Exactly.

Vipul Bindra 11:01

And like I said, it's a summary of all this is be a good person. Yeah. I I think if you're uh you know a good person, I think the output will come through, and like you said, uh, you know, you'll collaborate and you'll do better. And I think the the most important thing is people notice that and they'll hire you again, right? It's it's it's that simple. I know it sounds like uh, you know, like you said, young filmmaker, you just want to go and get gear or or or or watch more movies and all this, and it could be as simple as just be nice, be

Free Gigs That Actually Teach You

Vipul Bindra 11:29

open. And I think the best thing that helped me a long, long time ago, and and I've stuck to that, is just don't take a project if you're not interested in it. Because you know what happens? Uh, and and I totally get it. Look, if you're new, you have bills to pay, so you just take on everything. And then what happens is let's say somebody's like, hey, and it this happens when you're new, they're like, I'll give you a hundred bucks, and you know, come help me on set, bring a camera, bring this. And so you know for a fact, even though you're new that hey, you're not getting paid enough uh to justify the kit and you know, your time. And then what happens is you go on set, you're resentful, you're not giving your hundred percent. And that actually hurts you more than that hundred dollars helped you because people notice, right? And then they know they notice hey, he's not giving his best work. You're you're not putting your best. Every single person who's on that set now doesn't like you or doesn't want to hire you, versus those people, those could be a PA today, could be doing their own productions tomorrow, and then they end up hiring you. For example, like just coming back to our story, I met you on that Fernando shoot, and I think you started out as just a grip or something, and then you ended up becoming a cam up mid-shoot. But point is, you were just a grip. And look how many things you've done for me. Essentially, co-dP a bunch of my projects. That wouldn't have happened had we not talked and you had not been open to coming on set as a channel.

Matthew Lopez 12:41

And showing like ensuring the like the things I have to like capable of doing, not being scared of like showing my flaws, not being scared of like opening and being mindful of like my limitations, but also like being mindful of helping and giving a hand because you weren't like, hey, I'm a grip, I'm not touching this camera, right?

Vipul Bindra 12:56

You were like, sure, I got it, you know.

Matthew Lopez 12:57

Because there's people like that. I I've seen them, you know, the the kind of person that would go on set and they'd be like, ah no, I'm not gonna do anything else because it's not labeled, and maybe they have an argument there about like it's union or whatever, and they come from that background. But again, it still doesn't change the perspective. Like, I don't want to hire you.

Vipul Bindra 13:11

Yeah, but I'm saying if you're in a union set, then you're not beginner, usually, I'm saying. So it's it's a different topic, yeah. But uh, but also what I was gonna say is like I totally get it. Like you should technically be paid more, you know, you were grip too, because grip is generally a low-paying position. So I'm saying if you go to Cam OP, you should be paid slightly more. But at that point, you don't, that's not the time, in my opinion, to do the negotiation. You say, hey, absolutely, you jump in, you do your thing. And at the end, that person, whoever asked you to go up, right? Hopefully they can go up on the rate, or let's say they didn't have the budget, then you can be like, hey, I I noticed that, I know you deserve more, but next project, I got you. Something like that. That's the trick.

Matthew Lopez 13:47

It's understanding, like, okay, maybe you won't like get the benefits of like starting off doing all these extra freebies, but that's how it is usually. You're building up a portfolio, right? You're building up a concept of trust between this person. Yeah, I'll do the first two or three free, and or I'll I'll try to do extra stuff to help you out. But keep that in mind, you know. The next one, I'll let you know. And like we forget, I'll let you know. Remember, I did this for you and did this, and you're like, oh, okay, yeah, maybe maybe there is a valid reason, or maybe I should trust them with more things. Like the sense of trust will give, get you paid and also get you more jobs in the future because of that. Because in the beginning, you can't just always expect patients, like, but that's the other thing, too. Like, at some point in your career, you do start have to being like more stern on the things, but those are with the people you know, you know. That's the trick with anything, even starting a business. Like, you don't like go up to a client and say, Oh, this is my rate. You know, you'll say maybe this is my rate, but because we're new and we're friends, I'll I'll bring it down, give you a discount today, right? Uh, this one, this round, I'll give you a discount. But next time you like my work and you like what I want to do, then you know my real rate, you know. Yeah, that that concept is applied to everything. It's it's applied to your jobs and also to the if you're in a business, because it's like that's how you show like sincerity again, going back to the humbleness, going back to the trust. Because I feel like that's the that's the global thing about all of this is that because you're a freelancer, because you're coming in as a like a nobody in a sense, right? You're not a corporate, you're not like an agency, and you're not this whole thing backed up. You have to build that trust, right? And if it you could do marketing, you could do stuff like that. But what I'm saying, in the general aspect of just communication with someone, that comes down to that kind of perspective where you have to just walk up to the person and be modest, you know, be modest in the beginning, few, you know, do favors, whatever it is that you have to do to grab their attention. Once you grab their attention and they need you again, because they will, because that's reality, that's why other people misconcept. It's like, oh, if I do this free thing, I'll never get a gig again. That's not true. Yeah, because if the if you were hanging with people that are like hard, like effective workers and you know they're they're making business, they're gonna remember you. I promise you. That's like you think this world's big, but it's not as big as you think. People will like tend to like surround themselves around people they know more than go search for another five days for a new gaffer when they know a gaffer already. See that that's perspective is applied, and it's it you don't have to be scared as a a beginner or someone starting off thinking that if I do so many free favors, people will take advantage of me. Like, there is a concept, like I said, there's a caveat, but that's once you start it, yeah, you have to start it, you have to begin exactly, and sometimes it's better.

Vipul Bindra 16:12

Now, obviously, don't let people take advantage of you, but what I'm saying is if you're new, you don't have work, right? For for people, I think it's worth to be like go on set rather, you know, like a lot of people forget the the value of being on set because just learning how to communicate with a client to me is worth so much money. So if you're in just set and you're watching, like I would have paid so much money 10 years ago to be on set where I'm watching, you know, I'm talking a person who's able to get a client to give them 20 grand to make a commercial, for example. Just watching that conversation is so valuable because who else is sharing that, right? And you cannot get that information unless you are on set. Yeah, you're watching that interaction happen. There's no way you can package that in a course.

Matthew Lopez 16:51

Yeah, you you can't you can't just like like lock yourself in that process.

Vipul Bindra 16:55

Because each client is different, right? Each project is different, each and and being able to handle challenges on set is what makes you a great producer. And that's how you're gonna make the most money if you're you know direct to client, right? The higher up you are, the more money you make, but you cannot get there unless you're able to do the things that the top people need to do. So what I'm saying is, and I think you agree, is like be on set. And to be on set, sometimes you have to be on set for free. That is not people taking advantage of you that you gaining valuable information, but you have to do that. I've had people sometimes show up on set where they want to learn, they but then they just stood around. You know what I mean? Like they did what they were told. Exactly. And it's like fine, but these are the things you have to put an effort into. Like, as in nobody's gonna tell you, come watch me talk to this client or let me watch me set up the settings on this camera. You have to observe, you have to see why they're changing it. And and sometimes maybe ask questions as long as you're not being disrupted. Like, hey, why'd you choose, I don't know, T22, you know, or T2.8? Like, why would you choose that? And that maybe that person can give you their perspective, the moment, because you know, as a DP, you could be like, oh, because you know, we want this to be in focus, or we don't want this to be in focus, or whatever the reason is, I'm saying, but but you wouldn't get that knowledge either you don't observe and you don't ask. That is how you get value out of doing free projects.

Matthew Lopez 18:06

And I would say his hot take. You know, you go on a set and you sit there and you just like don't do anything. Like, I'm sorry to tell you, but that's the perspective of reality telling you that you this isn't your job. This isn't the job you wanna do. Because, like, if you actually love what you're doing and then you actually love this type of thing, if you're doing something for free the first time, I promise you, you would get like so like interested in it. You would be like, I wanna, I want to learn this thing, I wanna learn that thing. I don't care. Oh, we're we're uh 12 hours shoot. You're you're I'm gonna be driving with no like in a truck for the like the whole 12 hours. I don't care. Because like that's that's like me going to a theme park and enjoying it and just making me happy. If it generally makes you happy, the paying part comes later and it in it it's still like worth it. You see what I mean? And like I guess that's it's a hot take because like most people don't want to hear that, but that's the reality. If you go on, if you're starting filming and then like just go, just go on one set and you sit there and it does not enthusiastically motivate you to do anything, and you sit there for hours doing nothing, then I'm reality is this isn't the career for you, this isn't the job for you because that has to come naturally, naturally. If it doesn't come naturally, you will never be able to force it.

Vipul Bindra 19:15

And and the thing is, I don't want you to think you have to be outgoing like like you, Matt. Like, because let's be real, there's a big personality difference between you and me, like at least what I can tell. I mean, it may be different, but I'm saying you seem like very extrovert, outgoing. I'm uh technically an introvert, quiet person. However, we were immediately able to connect. What I'm saying is I don't want people, because some people I'm saying would listen and be like, oh, personality type, like, oh, I am not that type of person. No, don't fake it. No, you don't have to. Like, you know, I've been able to network with you, for example. Our, in my opinion, our personality types is extremely different, but we connect. You know what I mean? Whatever that may be, that may be the product you're filming or the or the filmmaking in general or whatever. Who knows what that is?

Matthew Lopez 19:53

But it's like make an effort, right? But that's what I'm saying. You have a passion. That's the that's the trick I was trying to get to. It's like you have even even someone who's silent type and doesn't talk to communicate with people, that's fine. That's one part of the business, too, because there's many parts of the film industry. What I'm trying to say is that you have to have a passion in the film industry. It has to be it has to be cameras, it has to be talking to people, it has to be uh, I don't know, even a storytelling storytelling or a movie enthusiast. If you just like watching movies, I promise you, if you're on a real set when you watch the movie and now you're on the set, you'd still be like geeking out and you would still be invested into it. You see what I mean? And you'll find someone who has that same type of like. And even if we're split in personality or split in like like the emotions we have, the the perspective is the same because you're passionate about the work you're trying to do.

Vipul Bindra 20:34

And you can always find common

How They Met Through Gear

Vipul Bindra 20:36

ground. So, for example, uh, let's talk about how we met. Because uh, like I said, so uh I think if I had Fernando on set, I'm pretty sure this uh I don't remember, it's last season, uh, but I I'm pretty sure we talked about this. But long story short, you know, uh Fernando was doing a project for Give Kids the World Religion, incredible organization. So I was already interested because I had volunteered there, you know, a long time ago. Once he told me, I was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna be inside. I don't care what the role is, because you know, sometimes you want to be part of nonprofits like that, which makes you feel good inside. But point is I had no idea obviously who's going. Uh and then he told me, Oh, Guga's coming, so another friend of ours. I would love to have him also in this season. But point is, once I was like, oh, great, this is um uh, you know, gonna be a good project. But once I got there, um, that's where I obviously met you. And like you said, you're technically a grip, uh, you know, different personalities, but immediately I had bought, and I'll let you speak on your perspective, but I had just bought the Ronin 4D. I'm talking a month or so ago before then. So I had the Ronin 48K, and and and we'll touch that camera in a second. But point is for some reason, I don't even know how it came up, but immediately we just connected with you, I have one too. I operate, and I was like, Whoa, I don't know that many people who have that camera, right? And then we immediately connected. Yeah, and and it was just you know, it was just such a great conversation. It's just geeking about the camera, the project in general. So uh, which is why I was like, Oh, this guy's passionate. And then I was doing my car commercial at that point, and I was like, Oh, I would love to have the Ronin 4D there. So you should come. And rest is history. But what's your perspective on that day if you remember?

Matthew Lopez 22:07

Yeah, like going back to the whole like perspective of the day. I feel like where we connected, like at least for me, I I know what I'm passionate about is gear. And I feel like you're kind of in the same perspective. And that's where we kind of like leaned on each other. Was that like for me, when I see a camera cart with a bunch of stuff on it, I immediately want to know how the guy built it. I immediately want to know how, like, what is all this stuff? Like, I want to know if there's anything I don't know and I want to learn it in the moment. Because for me, I'm the kind of guy that likes to know like how many hammers exist in the world. And if that hammer has another alternative, I want to know it. Cause then if I'm in a set where I'm thinking about what's a solution to this, I know the tool that I need. And you know, someone coming with a bunch of equipment, yeah, that's a first draw for me. Like, I want to like be friends with whoever like has that kind of gear. Cause then that's a that's a resource, that's a connection, but it's also some learning curve because that's where I like personally, this is just kind of going a little bit off. But like when I was first learning about stuff, I went to film school. Like I went the route that most people say it's kind of like pointless, but like I think of it pointless when you don't take advantage of the three resources they have. For me, I what I found was really useful was the the equipment. So what I took that route was I went to the equipment room. I worked there as an equipment room like student, and I like rented it out all to the students. And that's where I learned most of the perspective because if you're next to the camera, right? Or you're next to the equipment, you're gonna be next to the guy who knows the best about that equipment. You know, you're renting it out to DP, so you're gonna be there to help them with the D, but you're gonna be next to DP and you're gonna learn something about camera, you're gonna learn something about grip. You're gonna learn, and that's where that perspective comes from. So when I met you guys, and that's it, and I met you, I was like immediately like, I gotta talk to this guy, I gotta see what his perspectives are. I wanna know what like his mindset is, you know. Because if a guy owns a cart, he owns a business or some form of business. So this guy's a business guy, and then that's where like it led off. And then, you know, from there I was like, you know, it it seemed like you were enthusiastic about it. And since we were talking about the Ronan, it was like a new thing in that time. I was like, oh, that's so cool. And I was like, this is a cool thing to pitch. Because not a lot, like you said, not a lot of people have the Ronin. And going to the camera perspective, that camera is like a Swiss Army knife, but it's for particular people. I feel like that camera kind of leans towards people who are like gear, gear geeks, gear people that love the just the the the sense of having things and and and multi-tooling. Yeah, and that camera kind of like leans towards people like that. Like if you're the type of guy that likes to have like a camera with everything rigged on it, you know, you want you want a camera that can do everything. That's that's basically what the Ronin is.

Vipul Bindra 24:28

And here's the crazy part about the camera. I don't think I've because I did a I think an a review on that camera, something like that, some kind of video

Ronin 4D Strengths And Limits

Vipul Bindra 24:34

on it. But point is I realized quickly after buying that camera that I'm not a Ronin 4D operator, it requires uh a different level of operation. Not saying that the camera's hard to operate. Technically, it's a very easy camera to operate once you learn the buttons. But point is, once I at least got the Ronin 4D, uh the image is great. The 8K variant, I'm not a fan of the 6K version. But the point is, the 8K, I think the image is great, the camera's great, it does need an update. But as soon as I acquired it and I started using it on projects myself, and I was like, crap, I don't want to use this camera. I just wasn't enjoying it. You know what I mean? As a cinematographer, you have to to also feel the camera because it's a tool. At the end of the day, I like you said, gear is important, but gear is also a tool. If you can't you don't like that tool, then it's useless to you. So I was like struggling with this. So like I said, when I met you, so remember, this is a few months into having the camera, I was like, darn it, I'm not enjoying using the camera, but I am you enjoying the images. So I need an operator. So that's what I'm saying. That's where we connected, where it's like, oh, you are the operator, then I want to use this camera because it's an incredible tool. But I, as a cinematographer, for example, I enjoy using more like the Buranos, the Ari Alexa's, you know, those are, or even the FX6s, those are like the cameras that I'm enjoying using. So, but there are times, and we'll we'll get into more of that. I'm saying, where I want to use the Ronin 4D, and now you're the guy. Because now I'm like, darn darn it, I have the guy. But rather I'm actually trying to insert that in projects where, you know, typically people wouldn't lean, you know, you'd be like, oh, I need a study cam with a with a Burano, for example. Now I'm like, hey, why don't we get Matt with his uh Ronin 4D? You know what I mean? Like that perspective change only happens once you have a skilled operator for that camera. And B, you realize the value of it. You know what I mean? Like you said, it's not a camera that people immediately uh think about. So you don't see the value it brings, but it clearly is valuable. It's been used in a fun movie, you know, adolescents. I mean, this it's ended up in Hollywood.

Matthew Lopez 26:27

I feel like that camera is is like you said, it's a personality, right? Like everyone has their own like type of camera they like to use. It's it I I I think this is more of just a caveat in general. Like when you are a cinematographer of filmmakers, you will find the camera that like matches your personality always. Like it's funny, but it you I promise you, every time you look at a guy with a camera and he's only using that one camera, that's his personality camera. That's the camera that reflects him. And it's the it's it's true in that sense when it comes to Ronin 4D. Like me, I'm a multitasker, I like to have insane things happening all at once. I'm like for me, a lot of times when I was doing my short films, I would do I'd almost do almost the entire thing by myself, you know. Like, but that was because I'm okay with that kind of stuff, because I was built off of that. Like, you're a hard worker and you make it work no matter what, you know, even if you have nothing. It's like like I was taught that by my dad. And so, like that mindset of just having a camera that could do everything, even though it's chaotic. And I do agree, like it is a it is a particular camera. Like coming from like Ari and Burano and and more like steady cam, almost shoulder rig kind of cameras where it feels more natural with the body, this is the entirely opposite. This camera is like, is like almost like a video game. It's like this like joystick that sticks out of you with weight and it's its own thing. But like if you think of it like an animal, if you think of it like it's like this this creature that you have to tame and move around, yeah, exactly. The chicken, then it makes it so much easier to like mind like manage. And I feel like that again, that's a mindset. That's a that's a type of person, just like a steady cam owner. Like a steady cam owner, all of the the the weight of the camera is on your back, and it's an entirely weird different distribution of weight, you know, you no longer are here with it, you're like down here with it, holding a staff floating in the air while the thing is holding on your body.

Vipul Bindra 28:10

Yeah, that's like on your lower back.

Matthew Lopez 28:13

It's a managing of mindset and it's also a perspective that people come with. But what I'm getting at is, yeah, I mean, once you have that person, it it's it's great to have them because then you can just call on that person and get the shots. And I I I would argue like with runner 4Ds, like they're they're a nuance. There were supposed to be something to like blow people's minds, you know, and that's kind of what they did. It it's a it's a it's a niche for some people, but it's it's a necessity for others because it's like I like I see it like this. Yeah, you can have a steady cam with an Ariana Burano, and those things are the standard. But what if you're in a situation where you can't follow the standard, right? This is what that is. This is like for more low budget but more independent filmmaking, right? Type of type of short films or even large feature films that just are fully like invested on the director and the person's like ideas, and you just want to get the shot in a very unique angle that might not be so easy to rig, instead of spending the time and effort to do that. This kind of just cuts the the the the that part in half and lets them get into it.

Vipul Bindra 29:14

And exactly, and like and like you said, it this is a tool, but it's also like unlike anything out there, and and um and let's be real, like it took a while for Hollywood to accept it because technically this camera is now old, right? What four or five years? I know the 8k came out a couple years after, but point is for being an old camera, uh it's now starting to pick up steam, I think, in the last year or so, and and and it's being like I said, Civil War, and they didn't even have the 8k variant, they had the the Moire filled, you know, 6k variant, but that flight movie, um I think I don't know, flight risk or whatever, but but another movie, you know what I mean? And then obviously F1 movie, they had like budget wasn't an issue, it was uh, you know, uh Apple's budget. So but they they chose that camera because it was the right tool, right? This is Hollywood. Camera uh costs are like the last thing on their their brain, right? They have so much more expense keeping Brad Pitt on set for a day than the camera. They can pick whatever camera and uh Ronin 4D. Uh I think they had the 8K variant for the FN movie, but like that camera is far more valuable to them than um you know to get the shot done than an Ari at that point. Not that they didn't use uh I I don't I forget which camera, but I'm pretty sure it was the 35 or whatever. Yeah, the film done. I I let don't don't count on that. It may be Venice too. They were they had a lot of Sony sponsorship for it.

Matthew Lopez 30:26

I think kind of like just want to tie it back to the whole, like you're saying, you know, the reason why they grab cameras like that is for a perspective, right? We were talking about that in the beginning where it's like, you know, a DP, what makes a great DP is someone with a creative mindset, right? That's that like going to the F1 and going to like you know, those those movies that use Ronan 4D, all of them, even though with without like having a limit in budget, it was because a creative choice. They were like, like for the runner for the oh, I wanted to put the camera in the weirdest place possible, you know, like on top of the hood of a car or or in a weird angle. And it's like, yeah, like we could do it with like a Venice or whatever, but what if we want to put it in a you know, more like arbitrary or place where it might not fit? That that's the reason why they use the camera. Same thing with the Civil War. Civil War, like if you heard the the podcast they had with them, like the when the director explains that, he's like, the reason why we wanted that camera is because prop-wise, it looks like a gun, it looks like a weapon. If you put a guy with a full soldier suit in that thing in the background, and he's getting these like like B-roll, it's hidden into the background. And that director, his whole like his whole style, his whole creative thing is to build fools 360 sets and have everyone inside of it invested. So, like, there's no way to hide a camera, like you'll immediately know what an Ari looks like, you'll immediately know what a Brano looks like. But you're a Ronan is like a like in itself, it's a disguise, you know. You could use it in in on sets and stuff, and his thing was like he wanted to make this feel real and grounded, like as if the camera was in its place, like it was a human being in like almost like POV kind of style. And the only way they could pull that off is if the the actual camera was on in the shot. So, like the way they got away with that was like again using the Ronin 4D as like a prop and a camera at the same time, and having so many multiply like spread out. Because again, this is DGI, so DGI's greatest thing is drone stuff and transmission. So, like the ability to connect to multiple cameras from far distances and have this like operator in the background with the wheels. That was the move. That was the move for that movie because it it caught it it like called for that. It called creatively for that. Not because he wanted a medium and a close up and a wide, because if he wanted that, then yeah, you could just stick to an Ari or some other camera really expensively and just follow the format. That guy did not follow the format, and that camera, I think, calls for that. Yeah, the camera calls for people who don't like to follow formats, don't like to follow like simplicity and and and like you know, these like one-to-one shots. They want to do something creatively unique that stands out from everything else. Those are the type of people like you know that are you, you know, in a sense, experimental film.

Vipul Bindra 32:52

I'm pretty sure it's Claudia Miranda, the same guy who did F1.

Matthew Lopez 32:54

So he's definitely leaning into it.

Vipul Bindra 32:56

It's the unique style that comes with it, and he wants to use it, yeah. Exactly. And and and and here's the thing, same thing about F1. Like uh, and a lot of people think like it's not a bias because again, they did use other cameras on the F1 movie, for example. Like the cameras that Sony made specifically for them, I believe, are the FX6 uh sensor, you know, but in a tiny body so they can put the put on that modified F2 car. Uh but uh but so they used a bunch of cameras, like I said, I I'm forgetting which big camera they use, but the tiny ones with the FX6 that are modified by Sony for them, and then the Ronin 4D. And if you notice, they're using different cameras at different points because it's the right tool for the right job. Because they were filming on live F1 races, they cannot just, you know, stop the race or stop the paddock midfield. Plus, these drivers are busy that they wanted to have in there, which is what made the F1 movie great, right? They had the actual drivers part of it and they're not actors. So just being able to throw in quickly, like at a session, like, oh, all right, we're not gonna film the movie. So Brad Pitt or the other actor, they're just standing there. Point is that's where the Ronin 4D is perfect, right? You come in, you get the shots, uh, you get the crowds, and they don't even know if they're on the movie at that point, right? And you get out of there.

Matthew Lopez 34:04

It's movability, it's like compatibility, it's the concept of that. And and it's like, like you said, it drives because they they're required to do this because of their choices and their creative decisions, you know, like like even the the small, like you know, Sony camera, that was even that they designed it with the uh tilt uh rotating uh machine thing on the bottom of it. So they can do the the whip, the left and right whip. Again, it's for mobility and compactability because the creative choice was to film the car, literally film the car while it's moving 100 miles an hour.

Vipul Bindra 34:35

And they had to comp uh, you know, uh uh compost like compost uh uh the F1 card on top of that. Remember, they're not actually in an F1 card because those are you're not allowed to get those. So they had an F2 car that was modified to look like an F1 car, and then they were, like I said, overlaying things on top of that, right? So it's just crazy. But point is you know, talking about some cinematography, I'm saying people watch and they'll even sometimes comment on my videos like, you know, over like selling cameras or under selling cameras is like this is not an alright or this is not an FX. But the thing is in 2026, all these cameras are great. Yeah, and and and if an F1 movie can intercut between an FX6 sensor and uh a Ronin 4D sensor, and I'm pretty whatever the higher-end camera is, then you can too. You know, I doubt anyone listening to us is is building you know a hundred million dollar project. So I'm saying camera should be not a complaint. You can film it on a Panasonic, you film it on any mirrorless camera. I'm saying just use the right tool for the job and stop I'm saying complaining about cameras because that's what people like to do.

Matthew Lopez 35:36

I mean, that's that's that's the reality. Going on that like hot take, it's like you, you know, yeah, cameras are a thing, but it's not an essential. You you come from a background, like at least like from filming perspectives, background of like coming up with things in the moment. That's like our our caveat, that's our skill, really, as filmmakers. It's not about having the equipment. The equipment is like the the extra part, you know, like oh cool, they have this new stuff that we can use, and oh cool, we have all this part, but that shouldn't be the mindset. The mindset should always be like, how do I get this shot? Where how do I like perform it and then find the thing to support the thing I want? You know, it doesn't really matter if it's like a you know a Ronin or like you said, a Canon or even an icon. Like it the the the point is like you can get the shot and you can follow the fundamentals of what filmmaking is about, right? That's the essential part. You need to know what lighting is, you need to know what composition is, you need to know what color is, you need to know what sound is. If you follow those four things and you've you've researched and studied them, the the what's it called? The the ocean is your oyster, whatever it is, you know, like that. In other words, it it's it's there. It's you can you can you can reach your goal. That's the thing that people think, or at least that's the the hot take that people think they need this equipment to make this thing work. No, that's not true at all. I've seen people pull crap out of their like literal butt about like things that that you would you would say, oh wow, yeah, I could have thought of that.

Vipul Bindra 36:58

Like I And also I think it's time. Like you give me uh you know 20 hours, I'm sure I can pull a better shot than uh you know most cinematographers, like you know, but at the same time, that's not what you have on real set. I'm saying sometimes you have to move fast. So sometimes that's what I'm saying using the right tool matters because you're like, hey, I can uh I can get the shot with the run in 4D in 10 minutes, or I can spend a whole day with the you know, Jim and uh Dana Dolly or whatever, and then get the shot.

Matthew Lopez 37:23

So if but don't have that time, it's nothing to do with skill level, it's to do with you know managing time, you but again, like coming with that perspective because you know what it takes to make the shot, you know what lighting, you know what necessities are, right? And the basic fundamentals. The the the equipment is what, like you said, saves time. That's because time is money, time is money in in a film. That's the the the essential thing when it comes to like filming a film, is the reason why we get expensive equipment isn't because we are looking to look fancier, it's because we only have a certain amount of time to do these things, and time is money, and we need to make things go quicker. That's the reality of it. That's exactly because you're you have a 30, you know, 300 shot thing or a feature film with 30 days, you know, you only have a limit of time to do these things. So it's never I don't I've never seen it where they're doing it because they want this fancy equipment, it's because something else is calling for it and they have to get this particular thing for time speed or managing and stuff like that. Because, like, hey, if you could do the Nikon in like a feature film and you're confident you know the shots by shot and you know how long it's gonna take you, and you you're confident you can get these done in 38 shots, then do that. Exactly. I would I would I would agree to that. Do that, don't go buying a Ronin 4D or go buying some other camera, or you can rent a camera. Exactly. I don't even know why you don't need to buy anything, but like do do that, do that. Don't don't go thinking, oh, I'm not gonna make my next short film because I have to wait for this thing to come out. No, don't do that because that's literally like going back to the whole thing I was talking about, how like you need to like be passionate, but also you need to love what you're doing. In my opinion, if if you're like sitting here waiting for your film, you're not really loving your own film enough to like be like, ah, screw that. I don't, I don't care that I don't have like the equipment. I want to make this film. I don't care if like I have to like rip my clothes off and sell it and be butt naked to make this film, but I want to do it. You know, that passion about like wanting to do something like that, yeah kind of drives everything else, you know. And eventually you'll get whatever you need to make it happen. That's that's the mindset because you know, nowadays in this film industry and like what people have done, you know, it's like we're in this era of like mass entertainment. We're we're too used to like making videos with like, you know, with large budget digital stuff, but like at the same time, we're like our brains are thinking, oh no, if I don't have that camera, if I don't have this perspective, I'm not that guy because I saw it on social media, I'm not good. It's like that's that's the problem because we've been so like invested in this entertainment business, and and we've been like, I guess, brainwashed a little bit with social media and and and videos like that. We're letting that drive ourselves. You gotta think of it back then, you know, like in in the 80s or even the 90s or even like even way further before that. They didn't have that kind of stuff, they didn't have ways to know if that other guy made a really good film until they go to the movies and maybe they see it, they're like, wow, that was really good. But like they're on their own.

Vipul Bindra 40:09

Yeah, they're on their own. And if you think about it, we have better digital cameras, like your cheapest digital camera, talking like the Nikon ZR, a couple grand, is or even an FX30, is a better digital camera than the first digital cameras that were used in movies. So your camera, uh, and obviously we can't compare any camera to film, but what I'm saying is once we made the transition to digital, the first few films that were shot digitally, your any camera today's is gonna be better than that. So, tools should not be an excuse because these are Hollywood movies that were made using these digital cameras, that you have a better camera than that to make. Now, I'm not saying gear doesn't matter, gear does matter, use the right tools for the job, but it's not what's holding you back.

Matthew Lopez 40:49

No, it's not, it's not, and that's that's the caveat that because we've watched like, and that's the problem with social media. It's like it finds the algorithm. If it does, it's like it's like a virus. Once it finds that you have like focused on this one guy telling you this one thing, it will just like spew a thousand other videos of the same kind of like downer video that brings your mentality to that perspective. But that's what I'm trying to say. Don't let the the mass change your mindset. You're a filmmaker, and if you are a filmmaker, if you truly are passionate about making movies, nothing will change that perspective. Nothing, nothing. No matter how many people tell you it's a bad job, no matter if your parents tell you it's it's a bad idea, no matter if your friends say, Oh, you still have it. No, that's what defines you as a filmmaker. If you could stand out from that and tell yourself that even after all this crap, I'm still doing it, that's that that right there is your calling. That's your your your your universe telling you this is your job and this is what you need to focus on and this is what you need to pursue. Yeah, little by little. It's the same. I mean, this is like uh, I guess a calling for just in general as a person, you know. If you're gonna work on your health, if you're gonna work on your your life, you know, it's the same calling, right? If you're not passionate, if you're not telling yourself, I'm gonna wake up every day and do better, okay. Yeah, I messed up. I messed up that one day, right? And I'm gonna do better the next day. But it's the mindset, right? You don't give up. If you have that mindset for filmmaking, then you know you're in the right career because that's the kind of like like filmmaking calls for that because it's not a it's not a secure job, it's a freelancing job. You have you don't know when your next job's coming up, but if you're dedicated to it, right? You didn't get a job this month, but you're gonna hopefully get one next month and you're gonna keep pursuing that for the rest of your life, then then you're gonna make it. You're gonna make it. You wonder how these these big time guys make it. Yeah, it's it's because they pursue it. I mean, there's a movie right um coming out about uh uh Rocky, you know, the the movie Rocky with you know Barbosa. Yeah, that uh that's a perfect example of someone who like genuinely did not care how the world told him, how the world seemed him. Like it nothing mattered. He was gonna make that movie and it didn't stop him. And that that's a filmmaker. That's the that's the mindset of what what I, in my opinion, is going to make you stand out in this kind of industry. It's gonna make you stand out with equipment, it's gonna make you stand out in general. Like, like, you know, it's it's it's it's the perspective.

Vipul Bindra 43:00

Exactly. And it's just passion, you know, and and spending time on your craft, learning, getting better, hanging out with people who know better than you. Don't be the smartest guy in the room. You know what I mean? Surround yourself with people who are doing great or who want who are where you want to be. And and at the end they look, you'll make it. Most people don't make it because they quit. The easiest thing and the hardest thing is just not to quit.

Matthew Lopez 43:21

I know it sounds so so it sounds niche, but the reality is that is the that is the answer.

Vipul Bindra 43:27

Because you don't know when you're gonna make it. You may make it in five years, ten years, fifteen years, but if you quit, then you're never gonna make it.

Matthew Lopez 43:31

Yeah, I mean, like even the the new guys, you know, like obsession and you know, like back to rooms, those those guys, okay. Yeah, you can judge them, they got they got it easy. No, no, because the guy was a YouTuber. He he posted a hundred videos a day, like eventually, yeah, that makes sense eventually, catch attention. Marketplace, he is a YouTuber. What did he do? He just spent his own 300 million dollars that he spent for like the past, I don't know what it was has been like twelve, fifteen years of his life dedicated to that. And then he said, Let me make a movie. Like it's it's it's Mindset of not giving up. If if you you have that, I promise you, dude. I promise you. No matter how many walls hit you, you're gonna get up. Like the only thing that can stop you is death itself. That's how I see it.

Vipul Bindra 44:10

Yeah.

Matthew Lopez 44:10

Unless like something terrible happens, you know, and you're in this situation where the like life itself is stopping you. But like I would almost blame that that, you know, if if you kept yourself healthy, if you kept yourself like working hard to keep your health state because your mindset is to live long enough to make your movie, like again, that that comes down to that perspective. That you just have to be dedicated to this, this, this, this job, this lifestyle, because it is a lifestyle. Filmmaking is not a is not like a hobby. It can be a hobby. What I'm saying is, but like to be a filmmaker, like the title, I feel like that is only given to people who are like that.

Vipul Bindra 44:42

You know, like who can tell a story like the like you were just mentioning, uh Obsession and Backrooms and all these movies, or Market Player's movie, I forget his name. What's the name of the movie? The Market Player movie. It's called uh uh Iron Lung. Iron Lung. So all these three movies, if you notice something, you know, instead of focusing, and I know that is obviously the the headline title on news, like oh, youtuber makes a movie, but you have to understand these people have spent hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours crafting storytelling. That's what made all three of these movies great, not you know, the some cinema knowledge, because they all had uh cinematographers. You can hire a cinematographer, you know. We are available. What I'm saying is to be hired and hundreds of other cinematographers. Uh, what made these movies great is the person behind them was a great storyteller. And and that can come through either YouTube or some other way. I'm saying what they did was they made videos. They told and then you especially what I like about YouTube is you get instant feedback. You know if the video worked or not based on the audience feedback and the algorithm and you know the the view count, all that tool.

Matthew Lopez 45:42

Uh use the tool. Use the tool. Yeah, people say it's like, oh, this is like the trend, everyone's gonna be YouTubers, and but use it, use it. Why not? Why why fight the wave, right? Why not take advantage of it? Why not take it again? Like you said, there's tools in the world. I could argue that YouTube is a fancy thing. You could use newspapers and send people letters, and and it's the same argument there, like, oh, why use a Ronin over like a Nikon? It's the same perspective. Yeah, it's a tool, it's a tool that has its own caveats, it's own its own benefits as well. But if you're smart enough to take advantage of it and use it, and if you have the resource and it's right there, then use it. Use it to your advantage, to use it to to what can get you there, you know, because in the end, that's what it is, right? And yeah, it's it's you promoting yourself, showing yourself to the world, and getting as many connections as possible. What better than a way to just literally put your videos on on online and just they can't hire you if they don't know you exist?

Vipul Bindra 46:29

It's simple as that. It doesn't matter how good you are.

Matthew Lopez 46:31

It's there, you use it, you know. Like it doesn't cost you anything. Oh, they're gonna judge it. Who cares? Who cares is your personality? I promise you, we have a billion people in there. So you don't think one guy's gonna be like, oh, that was funny. I like your personality.

Vipul Bindra 46:42

Yeah, exactly. You find like-minded people, and um, you know, look, at the end of the day, there's a million paths to this, you just have to find yours. And the only way you will is by trying different things. If you don't try anything, you won't find it. And and we're here two different perspectives, which is the whole reason I'm doing this. Uh, our personality types couldn't be any different, but here we are. We're friends, we're collaborating on projects. It couldn't be, you know, I'm saying any more easier than that. You you find a passion, you you connect with people who are like-minded, and and you collaborate and you build and you do something together.

First Car Shoot Under Pressure

Vipul Bindra 47:15

Um, which uh talk about that, like like talk about us collaborating. So, our first project together, uh, it came about because, like I said, I just wanted to use the Ronin 4D and I was gonna be directing, I wasn't gonna be able to I still had that Ronin 4D at that time, but I was like, you know what? You come, uh, you operate the Ronin 4D because we had 44. So just so you know, that project was very limited budget, and and the um uh the availability of the car is determines everything. I had the car available for the morning off on one morning and then the half day on the next day. That was it. What we can make is on us, so yeah, because this car had to go to a show or something like that. I don't remember exactly. Point is uh and we had like what 45 minutes of good light, and this where I need ground shots, I need uh, you know, action camera shots, I need uh FPV shot, I need everything in that 45 minutes. So I thought as a director at that point, look, I can't DP. Ideally in the world, I'm be operating camera. So it's like, what if um, you know, I can bring a good team together that can get me the shots I want. Plus, that way is if I can put cameras already in the ground, uh, you know, action cameras already in the camera, I can have the FPV going at the same time, we can actually manage because again, 45 minutes of good life. That's all I have, right? And so, point is that's where my brain was immediately, and you're talking, and I'm going, that is exactly what I want. I want a Ronin 4D there because we want movement, we want subtle um, you know, things, plus being able to quickly move. Uh, sure, I'll have FX6s, FX3s, all these cameras there. They cannot move as fast as a Ronin 4D can, which is the tool, right? And and talking to you, I'm like, oh, finally, I have an operator for this camera. I'm the only one weird one, at least locally, that wants to use this camera. Point is I asked you to obviously come over. Now take it from here. What was your perspective? Because that wasn't an organized yeah, let me be real. It was thrown together within a week. Uh, there was not that much planning because usually I'm a pre-production, like obsessed with pre-like I planned, which you'll see in the second project how different it is, because I had time. But first, one I'm saying I only have Vika Prep, and that was the best plan I could come up with. Like, hey, we'll do this, then day two, we'll do it in the studio. And remember, we had to light that takes hours, shoot for four hours or whatever, and then break down everything. All had to be done in the 12 hour span. So it was a limited time. There was some planning, but it wasn't major. So I'm saying it's chaos with a little bit of plan.

Matthew Lopez 49:25

Anyway, I mean, yeah, like I saw it the same way too. Like it was very like running gun kind of vibes. It gave me like student film vibes because like I come from that background. Like, I've I've you know, I've been on so many student films where they want to shoot like a hundred shots in one day, and we make it happen, but I tell them the reason why we made it happen is because we did this, this, and this. Like, I understand the perspective. That's where it comes down to like, you know, you you knowing your equipment and knowing your your your stuff, knowing your lighting, knowing like the principles. You know your principles, you'll know the time, you'll know the how long it takes to do things, and you'll have a mindset coming in. So when someone's asking for something like almost slightly impossible, you know where we can cut, you know, where we can like drive so that that impossible becomes possible. So that's where like my brain brain was coming at. It's like, you know, okay, we only have two hours to do this, and you know, we only have the sunlight, and sunlight is like that's like it's the best thing, but it's also like its own double-edged sword because like the moment it's gone, it's gone. There's no coming back from that. And it's Florida, so it's Florida, exactly. So it's like, you know, I'm thinking, all right, I'm gonna bring this camera. I know like it wasn't like in the mindset because I knew you were wanting to do like multi-cam, but in my brain, I'm thinking, you know, if it's just Ben Dra like managing all these people, I know that eventually something might fall or twist or you know, someone's gonna trip. So I was thinking, okay, I'm gonna bring it just in case, you know. As it wasn't even because like you told me, I just brought it because I felt like this could be like something that might come in handy. Because again, going with that perspective, I can kind of see the horizon before it came, you know, and that's how I saw it. Like, I I was like, if anything goes wrong, we have a plan B. And I had that plan B sit sitting on the side while we do the stuff. Yeah. And when we went on that shot that day, yeah, I saw that we were all set up and we were filming, but I could tell like people were kind of like hectic, you know, because it is like I guess this is a note just in general for like any any director when you're doing multi-cam, right? That kind of stuff, even if you don't have the prep day for it, you want to kind of set yourself aside for like a two-hour thing because you want to manage all these people's, you know, like direction, which I mean, not saying anything, like we ended up making it work in the end, everyone kind of like locked in, but it's like that kind of stuff comes down to like knowing the group, knowing the people and trusting them. But if you don't have those caveats, yeah, you need to have a little bit more practice in the things you want to do, and you want to, especially when you're trying to do something so quick. Like, I think of it like this this is kind of like a economy thing, right? Like demand and supply. If there's more dem, if there's more demand, then there's less supply. If there's more supply, there's more demand. It's like that with filmmaking, right? If there's a short amount of time, right, then there needs to be more prepping for that short amount of time, right? With a lower budget. If there's more budget, there's typically less, you know, it's it switches, it switches because it's like that.

Vipul Bindra 52:06

Yeah.

Matthew Lopez 52:06

And and so, you know, coming with that perspective, that's the kind of mindset you want to go into. But like again, when we were on that set, I mean, I brought the camera. First day wasn't that bad. I think everything out turned out great. Like everyone kind of locked in, like you said. We got the shots. It was a little hectic in the beginning trying to get the card. But then the second day, I think where it really shine was the second day.

Vipul Bindra 52:27

Second day, yeah, exactly. So first day, same thing, and I don't even know how many shots ended up in there. But the first day was definitely great. But remember, that's all it was. It was a very short day, but because of the people, everything was like managed, yeah. Exactly. So first day went great, and that's I think second day was even uh more amazing than the Ronin 4D because um, you know, we didn't have budget. So remember, just so how it came about. So we were doing a series of 12 videos and they were corporate videos, that's what they hired us to do. And last minute, they're like, we don't want to do this 12th episode. Well, one of the middle episodes because it was a boring topic. They're like, how about we do a 60-second commercial instead or hero video? And which is great, but it's completely different when the budget is for, you know, a corporate video. You know, you know how that is. So and plus now it's like a week before the car is launching. We have to shoot at it. Point is so just so you know how we're going in. So, long story short, we uh thank goodness to Mike Lidisa, you know, Key Light films here locally. I'm like, where do we find a studio that's within a budget that we can also fit a car? And he was just building his studio, so it wasn't even officially launched. He let us go in there, he let me he rent let me rent it, and uh, we were able to use that studio. And like I said, the plan was always to use my R set with the FX6. Um, and uh Joseway and uh Guga were gonna kind of co-DP almost, and that was the plan of going in. But like you said, you brought your own in 4D because day one, I remember asking you, but day two wasn't the plan, and um, and I'm so glad you did because same thing, we're like, oh, now we need to get 20-30 shots, plus stills. So Jason's doing his thing while you know we're managing point is how do you uh get all that done in four or five hours that we had with the car, ignoring the lighting, ignoring everything else? That's all we had left. And the only way you can do that is with a camera like the Ronin 4D, because you can move so much fast, you can yeah, it's it's it's like it's two seconds because like the managing of it.

Matthew Lopez 54:08

I mean, this is like a perfect example in the set because it actually happened, you know. You guys wanted to do like jib shots, right? And you mounted the camera onto a mini jib on like wheels, and I was like, that's not a bad idea, but like what if you want to do a different angle? Or what if you want to like pull focus, which was another thing, like you know, the focus pulling and the managing the crane and moving the crane in the right position, and then hoping that the angle of the crane is right, because again, it's we were we didn't put it on a gimbal, it was just a crane, so you're you're you're stuck on this one axis no matter how much you move. So that that that also comes with a caveat, but they wanted like full-on rotation and rolling and getting in the car almost like a bot, you know.

Vipul Bindra 54:46

Yeah, which we would need. I mean, could you do it? Absolutely. If I was the I would do a higher-end project, I'd have a techno crane. Yeah, that's what we needed. Yeah, we we put the camera on a techno crane, and that's um, you know, uh, but we don't have that. Remember, that's the the whole point. The client can give us inspiration, but also you have to be realistic. So talking about the my side, what I handle on the other side was the client and traction. I had to be like, hey, this is what we can do, this is what we can't do in your budget, you know. You have to be realistic, which is we'll come to the second project in a second, where we were able to, you know, do what they wanted to do. But point is, I was also going in with like realistic expectations, like you want this post done in two days, too. We also have to think, I'm like, also thinking what we can also uh realistically manage in the time. Uh, but long story short, the plan was always to do that, you know, get them the jib shots and stuff like that, without obviously a techno crane. But we needed also 20-30 shots. There's no way you can move that fast because you have to unmount, mount, you know, the camera and uh plan out the shot, change the lighting, whatever. It's just it's a lot. And and that's where I felt like, and you know, I was like, hey, you brought your Ronin in. So I was like, okay, we can use details on this. But slowly I started to realize that it was moving uh much faster with the Ronin 4D. So we kind of stepped back. Obviously, we we still use the the FX6, but it went more so on, you know, uh static shots, stuff we could get. But I'm saying is Ronin 4D essentially kind of became the primary camera.

Matthew Lopez 56:05

Because whenever you're getting B-roll or stuff like that, I feel like that is the camera for B-roll shots. Because you could put it on a Ronin, right? But it's the same principle, right? Why not have a camera that has all of that on there? And that's what I see it. It's it's like like it you'll hear everyone say it's the best B cam. It you can argue that there's other better A cams because there is, but when it comes to B cams, when it comes to just like going like Dolly shots or or run like gimbal or steady cam shot, that's the camera because it's managing in time, right? Like we were on that set, we were like, what it was only like four hours left, and we still had the 30 shots left. So I was like, all right, all right, let me just build this on the side. I'll let you. I didn't try to like interrupt your guys' thing, and I just noticed that one of the grips were all handy and they had their own hands open. I handed them the AC thing again, like again, because we're all friends here, and this is a mindset of like everyone there had the same open mindset of just helping out. That's necessary for this to work. And so I handed this grip, grip, you know, an AC job, and I was like, hey, you can you pull focus on this real quick? I gave him the AC thing, and then I gave I gave your other DP the monitor while he was waiting while you guys got the other shot, and we got the other shots, and it was quick, quick, quick. And then we got it around you and it was working. We even were able to get like low angle stuff, yeah and half the crazy, you know, and this is what happens with me.

Vipul Bindra 57:14

I I as a as a director, I'm noticing I'm like, okay, this is moving much faster, but this is not. So it was easily for me to pivot, and I pivoted, and I was like, okay, so you are the ACAM now and let's go with it.

Matthew Lopez 57:25

It's seamless, it's it's that connection, it's that seems like that.

Vipul Bindra 57:27

And client doesn't even notice that hey, we're we're switching mid mid mid-shoot because at the end day, look, the goal is um to get the get the job done right. And I'm noticing that I'm able to move faster, we can get variety of shots that we couldn't with the other setup and it just being realistic. Yeah, and um, like I say, it came in really handy, and I was like really loving what we were doing. Uh, not that we need it to be also real, uh, the client also in that project had a little unrealistic expectations because even though after setting expectations, they expected to get the 30 shots done. Yeah, I obviously didn't sell on that, right? I sold it on a 60-second video where we need 20 shots in total, and we had already done 10 of them on the track the you know the day before. But as you remember, um, the client was also like, hey, let's get this, let's get this, and I'm going in the edit and gonna be used. So, but you know what I mean? It's managing expectations.

Matthew Lopez 58:14

Like, get the best out of the day too. Like, I get I get I get where that was coming from. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Like the whole, I guess the the lesson of the whole thing was that in this whole perspective, right? I was passionate and wanting to make this work. Uh like I get like you you didn't lay those expectations, but in my brain, all I was thinking was, I want this to work, I want this to be like what they expected, even if it isn't it like totally impossible. Because that's our job, you know. The dirt, like the director, producer, that's not really their job. Their job is like like Tarantino said, their their job is just to give you the idea. Yeah, they're not their job is not to make the idea, that's our job. Our job is to make your idea come reality, you know, like the impossible thing you wrote on script. We're trying to come up with and give you an answer to that.

Vipul Bindra 58:56

Exactly. And I'm gonna do a dedicated video on, you know, directing and stuff, but uh honestly, like you said, at that point as a director, I'm just going, uh, this is a better thing, you know. And and the funny thing is, I'm experienced with the Ronin 4D, but we had not, you know, set it up for this day two to have the Ronin 4D. Point is at that point, my brain is I need to tell the story, which is the hero story of the car. And if this is a better tool, then this is a better tool. I'm not gonna stand there and be like, no, no, no, no. I wanna use the R's, I wanna, you know, obviously, because remember, and and we'll go to the second shot in just a second point is we also didn't have cinema glass for the Ronin 4D. We were just using, I think, e-glass, right? And so that's also a thing. We didn't have the right glass or whatever, but we managed. But at that point, I'm not gonna go, oh, this is the look. It's like we can manage the look because we're shooting in log. Uh, the camera has extreme latitude, as in this is the right tool right now. Let's go with it. Plus, the client was happy. What I liked though, um, uh not that the FX6 didn't have a director's monitor, that I like that you brought your director's monitor so we were able to hand her the monitor. So she is also looking at the shot along with us and able to just confirm this is it, let's move on. Come and prepare. That's my thing.

Matthew Lopez 1:00:04

That's that's like I guess that's like my thing in general. Like when I'm doing any type of short film, like if someone said this is the plan, I'm always making a second plan. Like, all right, I know this is how we want it to happen. Like when I make my schedule, I'm like, all right, we want to happen in eight hours, but it might be like 12 hours. So I'm gonna set it for 12 hours. So everyone's perspective is that we have three more extra hours. If we come early, we come early. Hey, we're great. But I had that mindset already, you know. I'm all uh I like again coming from that background of like uh you know making it happen no matter what. Like I'm I'm a handyman. That's my my my background. I'm a handyman, I'm a maintenance guy. I've worked with my dad like on all types of construction stuff, all types of mechanic stuff. Like I live on a farm. It's like that that mindset and that perspective of just like living farm on a Florida.

Vipul Bindra 1:00:47

That's it. Yeah, wedgefield.

Matthew Lopez 1:00:49

Uh, but yeah, just like in general, you know, you come from this background of just like they hand you a hammer, you make it work. Like they want a house, you make a house. Yeah. And then you you slowly develop these skills of just making things just work by being creative, by being manageable, but then fueled by like the concept of I want to make movies, you know, that combined helps you come prepared for most of the things that come in your way. You know, you're never like surprised. And when you are surprised, you're always having a plan B. Yeah, that's that's the mindset you have to have as a worker in any kind of business. And that's what, like, again, go on, that's what hires you, because then they're like, damn, you know, I was almost gonna get screwed over and bit up by this producer, but you know, this guy just had all this stuff like waiting. I didn't ask him, but he came prepared with it, you know. And it's like that, that, that's the that's the perspective, and that's the mindset that comes with it. I mean, he even if it wasn't Ronan, let's say if it was a Nikon, you it or some kind of other tool you had and you came prepared for it. If it if you had known, you know, like again, the light and the camera, the all that stuff, and you know that this thing would have worked if if anything fails, you have it set up. You know, it doesn't, again, it doesn't have to be the Ronin 4D, it's the mindset. It's the it's the perspective, it's the it's you knowing how to solve your problems with nothing. So when you do have something, oh, you're undefeatable.

Vipul Bindra 1:02:05

Exactly. But it also helps me, at least, you know, like I tell people as a director, uh, because obviously that's my primary. I like to be the director, producer, then cinematographer. Uh so but it helps me being a cinematographer myself, uh, you know, being a director, because for example,

Second Commercial With Real Preproduction

Vipul Bindra 1:02:19

now coming back to the second one, which is completely different than the first one. So, same client, obviously, they come back to me. There's what three, four months in between, something like that. But this one, we have more time. I know this car, I know what's being made, and they also have more experience. They finally trust me, you know, because it's like also they're you know small company, so budgets are uh limited. Point is they finally give me a decent budget. I wouldn't call it again still an OEM level budget, but the requirement was very straightforward this time. They're like, hey, we're obviously we're gonna spend more money than we ever have on a single 60-second video. Because now remember, it's not 12 videos. Budget was good, I don't want to complain on the previous one, but it was for 12 videos. So per video budget was much, much tiny. Now it's like, oh, we're gonna make one 60-second video and the stills, and we're gonna give you the basically the whole budget. Now I'm like, okay, now I can do show you what I truly can. And to be honest, because and this is coming to my perspective, I do uh so much volume of work and so much revenue per se that I can afford. And you know, let's be real, I do corporate commercial work, and a lot of it is boring, and that's okay. I enjoy it, so I'm gonna continue doing it.

Matthew Lopez 1:03:21

It's a means to a goal, that's it. Yeah, exactly.

Vipul Bindra 1:03:23

And this is one of those unique things. And and being in Florida, remember that we are not in Utah, we're not in Colorado. So to have a car client is already incredible because we don't have the scenery. But what helped so point is um, you know, them giving a budget, trusting me, uh, this is a type of project that I don't get to do often, and it's more fun, I'm saying, than other projects. So I was willing to also put in more money. I was like, okay, I don't need to make money on this, I can I can spend it also. I even put some of my money into it. But point is we had more planning, I designed the whole thing. But coming back to my point of as a cinematographer, so I brought in Ricky, which I'd love to bring him at some point on this podcast. Great DP, very young guy though. But I had to just sell him on it. So, unlike most directors, uh, you know, where where they hire the cinematographer and they let him pick, this was the opposite. I'm like, okay, we're gonna our A cam is gonna be the Burano, it's gonna be my R's, and then we're gonna do the B cam, which is gonna be the Ronin 4D, with the Vespit 2s, just because it can't take the R's. Uh, and I'm so glad we have matching sets, uh, which makes the Vespits 2 so incredible for the Ronin 4D. But point is, like, I had already, as a director, and I know that's not something you would do as a director, but that helps me as a cinematographer. I've already decided the plan before I ever call anyone or hire anyone. But now, once I finally was able to hire Ricky, right, and I booked you before, which is so crazy. I booked you first because I knew I wanted you on there. It's like it was like a no-brainer. Uh, so I called you, I was like, okay, we're gonna do this. I don't have a date yet, but you know, you're like the primary guy. The dates move based on your available, which is so funny. Uh, but point is, and then finally, when I was able to, you know, bring Ricky in, I had to actually kind of sell him on it. He's like, but why do we have to use the Ronin 4D? Why can't we get a Ronin two and you know put the Branana? And same thing. I've done this before. Now, yes, we have a higher budget, but we're still constrained to three days. But now at least we have a pre-light day, so we can get a full shoot day. But regardless, we still have one shoot day in the studio, one pre-light day, and half a day again uh with the car. So it's not like we gained that much more, we gained a whole day, but we outside of that, it's limited perspective. But I was able to do way more pre-production. Now we had the exact number of shots, exact thing we were gonna do.

Matthew Lopez 1:05:26

And I feel like that's the right way to do things, you know. Yeah, like as a director, yeah. You some this is more for I would say this is more for like beginners, they tend to not do their own shots, but when you're going into the more professional standpoint, the director should be the one. In my opinion, the director should be the one who makes the shot list because that's the reality, you know, it's your creative idea. You come up with the first shot list. It doesn't matter if it changes or whatever, or you have to like switch it up, but you have the mindset because you you you know what it takes or what you have in mind, and it's easier to translate. So when you get your DP on, yeah, like you have to convince them, but at the same time, that's the collaboration you. Need. You know, when you're a DP and a director, you need to have some kind of point. In my opinion, I this is more of a learning curve because when I directed my films, I, you know, I would let the DP do it. And for some kids, sometimes it was it was like a struggle to try to get him into my perspective because I had a mindset of what I wanted. And, you know, he he had something else. And that's fair and it's collaborative. But to save yourself the time and trouble, you might as well just come up with a list that's so much easier to translate.

Vipul Bindra 1:06:24

Yeah, exactly. And I worked with hand in hand with Ricky. I don't want to take you know all the credit. Point is we work together on the shot list and everything. Exactly. But uh and but also then you give them creative freedom. It's not like as you saw, once we are on set, I've trust I built a team. I'm saying the right way to direct is not to micromanage. My goal as a director, and remember, I was also the producer on that one. So again, I have way more roles on my hand. Uh it's huge to produce a commercial like that and direct at the same time. Plus, I'm managing the client. So between those three things, uh, point is what I did, at least that's my perspective, is to find the right people, tell them my vision, and then let go. And as you saw that day, it was completely different than the first project because I was like, okay, now they know what I want done. And then I would interject when it's necessary. Obviously, it's at the end, it's my name. So if I see something I don't want done or whatever, that's when I jump in. I'm like, hey, let's do it this way. But outside of that, if you notice, and and I'm so glad we did the BTS on that one. I don't typically do, you know, BTS. So I was able to then step back and let you guys do your thing. What I'm saying is that's a to me a better director style and a producer thing because you guys know what to do. It's not like it's my first time working with you. You guys, yeah, exactly. And that's built over time. And now, um, because like there was a shot, I remember day three when we were doing car shot. Ricky wanted to put the uh emount glass on on instead of because obviously our Zoom weren't out that that would be the neat new thing we use next time. But point is, and I was like, sure with it, because you know, at the end they he knows the vision, it's the right tool. They they they can switch, is why I'm saying the lenses, because he's the DP at the end of the day, and he had obviously Josue, which is he's incredibly talent talented. Point is they had a we had a great team and you're able to make your own decisions. And and again, I like people who are able to do that. For example, I was technically providing all the gear. We were also the rental company outside of the Ron in 4D, but because he owned the 7200, he just used his own. He didn't even bother, uh, you know, like saying, Hey, can you bring yours? Which is what I'm talking about, the input. You know, like technically, I'm saying if you bring gear, you should get some money. But he didn't ask for more. What I'm saying is instead of because I would have then brought my I'm saying 7200. Point is Ricky was just like, if we're gonna use this rent, he talked to Josue, they brought the lens and just used it. And I and once I was like, oh, this is amazing. I like people that think like that. Um, you know, instead of coming to me, you know, all that discussion, because uh could could they have, of course, but it was not necessary.

Matthew Lopez 1:08:42

No, because he's passionate, he knows what he wants and he did the right thing anyway.

Vipul Bindra 1:08:46

So there's no reason for me as a director to get involved because I'm not responsible uh for that anyway. Yeah, uh, and uh, and I think it went smooth. Like I said, we used those shots, they came out incredible. But that's how obviously the first one should have been done, but that's that's what happened. It's a learning curve. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.

Matthew Lopez 1:09:02

It's a learning curve. But that's the thing, you would never have gone to the second job if you hadn't done the first one. Yeah, and that's what people done right too.

Vipul Bindra 1:09:09

Exactly. And that's what happens with a lot of people. I'm saying don't because I'm saying as a filmmaker, you tend to like look at other people's projects and you go, oh, I could have done this better or whatever, but you don't know the circumstances. You know what I mean? It's very different giving a month versus giving seven days, versus giving somebody, I don't know, 100K versus giving somebody 5k. You know, it doesn't matter how talented you are, it's the resources and the time matters too. And the results. And so it's I'm saying, but I'm saying people go online and it's very easy to go judge, like, oh, this is yeah, but you don't know the circumstances you've been in. So uh long story short, let's talk about the second project now. Because I feel like you were way more involved, uh, and also you had a way more better understanding going in. Uh, and like I said, but funny thing, like I said, I had to tell Ricky know we're gonna use this camera, and he ended up loving it. And this is what happens, you know, with the Ron N4Ds, but just one of those cameras.

Matthew Lopez 1:09:57

It's like one of those things where you gotta give it a break. You know, it's like you haven't tried it yet, you know.

Vipul Bindra 1:10:00

Especially with the flex, it it basically becomes a Rialto. I mean, that's what it is, right?

Matthew Lopez 1:10:05

At that setting, I'm saying it's it's a manageable camera. I like after these four or five years, it's been like upgradable over time, and I've I find it more and more useful. Like you send me an Instagram post of this guy, he had just it's like it's the flow thing, you know, it's like a steady cam, but he's got like a crane, like motorized arm, and yeah, that would be cool.

Vipul Bindra 1:10:23

That'd be the next level of it.

Matthew Lopez 1:10:24

No, but that's what I'm saying. It's like it's tutor it at this point, it's totally now integratable, and that's why people like it more. And but yeah, it's a it's like a thing where it's like, oh, I don't like my green peas. It's like, but you haven't tried green peas, try it, maybe you'll like it. You know, it's kind of like that. It's it's a it's a camera that you have to give it a chance, and once you give it a chance, you'll start to see its its use cases for a lot of films. But yeah, for that that that um that's a good one.

Vipul Bindra 1:10:46

But for that commercial is perfect, especially day three. I mean, day two short studio, we could have replaced it with a technocreen or jib or whatever. But again, I knew from previous commercial I didn't want to do that because again, time and budget. It was a decent amount of budget upgrade, but it was still nothing like what an OEM would spend. Let's be real. Yeah, what we pulled off at the budget we pulled out, not that many people in the country can do that. And I think Ronin 4D is an integral part of it, especially on day three. And we'll we'll get to day three in a second, where we couldn't have done it without a road run in for uh 4D. That was the primary camera. But again, coming back to studio, compare the two and also your perspective difference. I don't know. Uh what do you think?

Matthew Lopez 1:11:21

I mean, um I mean it was it went really well, like way, like you say, it went way better than the previous one. But that's again because we learned from the previous one, because the same people you had with the first one came back and you just added on more people. That is like that is how that works, you know. That is how you make a good type of like I guess business perspective. Because, like, you know, the same client comes back and says, Oh, you did better this time. It's like, yeah, because you know, you I trusted the same people, and this time I'm not even I'm less worried about it because I know their the capabilities because I had those conversations with them, because I spent the time with them and all that stuff. So, like, yeah, this the second shoe was uh it turned out actually, and the crazy part is we did double the size of everything, right? We last time we were on a studio that was only like probably 20 feet or something like that, with a a it was a four by no, no, it was a it was 12 by 12, right? Or something like that. We did 20. And we didn't have we didn't have any of the parts, and we hanged it up with string or whatever. It was a lot more crazy. This one we were in like an 80 foot or like it was huge.

Vipul Bindra 1:12:19

The biggest uh cycle, I think, in the past.

Matthew Lopez 1:12:22

Yeah, exactly. And then we had to hang up a 20 by. Yeah, so like, yeah, a complete different perspective. And we did like we ran um uh we ran uh and we had the Nova 2s, not that many people when we filmed it.

Vipul Bindra 1:12:31

By the way, I don't think anything had like that had been done with the Nova 2s in the entire country. Yeah, it was huge, it was huge. Yeah, we were the first people to use the Nova 2s, and they were incredible lights. I mean, I was amazed with the with the quality of them, and we had to actually technically use them in tungsten. In an ideal world, I would have used them in daylight, but because the uh the cove lighting that was in the psychwall uh was tungsten already, and we didn't have the time or the budget to swap it out for. I mean, initial plan, by the way, you weren't even part of that, was to take them down and put sky panels there, like 10 sky panels. And when I looked at the time, I was like, we only have one pre-light. There's no way we can put this up and then also take it down here.

Matthew Lopez 1:13:07

I even told you the perspective of hanging out the thing, because like again, I've done it before, and it's like, yeah, this is how long it would take to build out a 20 by 20, you know, like putting all these silks on it and all that stuff. I gave you like realistic perspectives, you know, three hours to four hours is sounds like a lot, but it isn't when you've done it so many times, you know exactly how long it takes. And then again, like I learned that because I took free gigs. I I oh I when I was a student, I didn't sit and go to the classes. I I like I mean, I I don't want to like call myself out, but I didn't even sometimes go to the classes. Yeah. Because I would rather, I would rather take out the experience that those those those student films or whatever it was. So most of them when they were doing silent stage shows, I was the one there. I was the one hanging up all those lights and rigs, and then you learn different perspectives and you learn how to do that stuff. So when I come on a set like this, I've done it so many times where I already can tell you confidently how long this will take, how much resources we need to make this happen, and I give you a realistic expectation before we jump in. Exactly. That expectation is what you're paying for, really. You're not paying for like the guy's camera or anything, you're paying for the guy's expertise and and uh knowing that you say that.

Vipul Bindra 1:14:09

That's what I tell like my uh my friends because I am the projects I'm paid the highest, I do the least amount of physical work. It's not that the physical work is not necessary, but I'm saying the highest physical work I do is the project they're lowest because you're expected to be the grip, the the gaffer, the the DP, the everything. But on a higher end project, you're paying me for my expertise because I've done this thousands and thousands of times over the last 15, 16 years. The whole reason I'm on set is to prepare, like, talk about my cart, it makes me faster on set because, like, just the new thing I did, the tool thing that if you remember from Bloom. But why was that done? It was done to save time. So now when I go on set, I'm actually working less because I don't have to search for my tools. What I'm saying is, or my meters or whatever, it's right readily accessible. But technically, if you think about the result of that, is I work less. So, what I'm trying to say is you pay me higher because I work less, because I've already thought about everything, because I planned for everything, like my interview setups, I can go create, and I've done a video on that. Obviously, go watch it if you want to. But with my cart, the reason it was built is to do a corporate gig fast. I can show up, set up two cameras, get the lighting done, you know, in 15 minutes. You can't do that typically. I'm saying just to take bags out, take it out of your vehicle, whatever. It takes time. And but what I learned was quickly in corporate gigs, I would be told, hey, you show on set, and then be like, oh, 10 minutes later, our CEO is coming and he only has 15 minutes. So either you get it done, and most people, what would they do? They just set up a camera and just go. I'm saying, or maybe a light. They don't have time to like make it nice. And so I was like, the only way I can do that is I have to be efficient. How can I be efficient, right? And that's slowly, slowly you build like and I was like, with uh with the wireless, uh, even though I won't teradex stuff, I put that HoloLens stuff because I was able to, you know, set it up in a way as you see with the director's monitor, with the transmitters, with the production monitor, because the idea is literally show up and said, hit one button, and everything just works because that's what's needed for corporate work. But talk about that commercial we did is completely different because none of that is relevant there. Yeah, so it's also like I'm saying the type of job, and the only way you can do that is by doing it like multiple times so many times and then knowing how to pivot, how to do everything. It's kind of like I did a commercial with uh Adam recently, and you know, I had to set up like realistic expectations, even though they hired me to bring the whole van. Yeah, I'm like the way we're moving, we have to be very efficient with the set. So it's like sure, you want, you know, I'm I'm saying a light here. My job is to now think, you know, not excessive, because I have every light, you know, for example, aperture and ammo on my truck. I can do fancy stuff, but I also have to go realistic. Like, like, I'm not gonna start setting up a frame, building a book light here if we have 15 minutes to set up. So I'm like, my job is a gaffer on that set, it's not physical labor. It's it's to figure out the right solution. So I can be like, how much time do we have? What do we need done? Okay, this is the right solution if that makes sense. And it may not be the fancy solution that we can do, but I'd rather be realistic than not be half done and then we have to roll with what we have to do.

Matthew Lopez 1:17:00

And I'm gonna say expectations and knowing the difference between how long something can take, how what, but still able to like that that's the thing. It's the it's a balance, you know. You having the perspective of how long this takes, seeing what the idea is, and then finding a middle ground between the two of them, right? Like, okay, you want this to be like this, but uh it requires this much time. Do we have that much time? No, we only have three hours instead of like five. Okay, then we'll pivot and do it this way. We'll still get the same look, we'll just have to do it and approach it a different way.

Vipul Bindra 1:17:29

That's that's and you know, that's how you get more value out of it. I believe it or not, the people that get the most value out of me is by hiring a couple of grips because grips are cheap, cheap to hire. I'm saying a couple hundred bucks a day, you can get really good grips, and uh, and obviously pay them more if you have the budget. But I'm saying grips are easier to get because all you need is muscle. They don't need to have the technical skill. Obviously, it helps if they do. But what I'm trying to say is like, let's say you pay me a certain amount of money, you're paying, but you're paying me thousands of dollars to be in set for the equipment for me and everything. Now I can happily I'm good at it, I can set up the stand, I can set up the light, I can set up the camera, I can do sound, I can do whatever you want me to do. But that's taking away from the time. Instead, what I should be doing is designing the lighting for you, right? And I cannot do that if I'm freaking setting up the light and the time is gone. So by having those couple of grips, you make my you know thing valuable. Because now I can be like, hey, set up this light here, set up this light here. Oh, let me get on the lighting console and adjust the ratios or whatever. I can get a meter, I can actually do some stuff, which I can't do otherwise. So I hope that makes sense to people who are listening. It's about, you know, uh knowing what to do, but also having then the resources and time to be able to do it. Because you know what I mean? You're it doesn't matter, you're Steven Spielsborough. If you show up and set somebody's like 15 minutes, you're rolling. What is he gonna do? And you have to set up lighting. Exactly.

Matthew Lopez 1:18:47

The smart guy wouldn't be like, oh crap, I gotta set up a sky panel and put all this other stuff. No, the smart guy would be like, All right, well, sky panel, how much lumens does that produce? Okay, that produces that much. Maybe we get like a tungsten light or something lighter that can put on a C-stand instead of hanging up on the grid for now, and then I'll you know, and it's like you're figuring out moment by moment how to make this work without having to sacrifice anything. In other words, not let in other words, not being able to like slow the production down. You are just working with them to make it work. That's what I'm saying. That's like going back to the whole like the Ronin 4D thing. It was the same thing. It was like, I don't want to get in your way because I know you guys, but I'm gonna do this to like help pivot this and like progressively make this better, even if we don't have the time. That's like that's the mindset. It's like to to manage around some some impossible idea, yeah, but making it happen either way, because that's our that's our skill.

Vipul Bindra 1:19:41

That's our exactly and and some people think like it's some magical thing. Sometimes it may just be as simple as bouncing light. Like, talk about the same commercial. You went into a room, and that's where bringing, you know, like you said, collaboration is I come in, I ask the director and the DP what they want because I'm a gaffer on this one, right? So I'm like, okay, so you want light here. Room's literally not even eight by eight, you know. So I'm like, the best thing is I'm like, what I can do is I can put a, you know, I don't remember Nova 2 or something like that. I was like, I can bring a panel because it's quick to set up, uh, and then I can bounce on the white because I see white white on the wall. I'm like, that is a better setup than I could right now go, I can put up a, you know, I don't know, cartellini, put a lamp here, put a light here, put this, you know what I mean? Like, but I know that's not possible in this room and with the time given. So the best thing actually sometimes is the simpler thing, because a lot of times also I'm saying you want to overdo. Let's say you are getting paid thousands of dollars to be on a set, then you'd also want to do then the fancies you're like, no, I gotta do look fancy. And I'm like going, look, what do you need? Okay, you need high quality light, you need the room filled. I see white. Is this gonna be in frame, uh, David? You know, who's a DP? He's like, no, I'm like, okay, the best thing for us to be, use Ronan, uh, sorry, Nova 2, I'm gonna bounce it, and then we can obviously shape the light with other lights, but that is the ideal thing. And uh, because he had never used the Nova 2, I'm like, I have to like then tell him, like, no, this spectrum is incredible. Why we want to use that light over, I don't know, 610x or whatever. And and as soon as we did that, you know, he saw, he's like, Oh, actually, that looks great. And then I was like, okay, we can do another light with the Fresnel on this uh wall, and and we got our contract, and now we can adjust these two to build our contrast. And guess what? We can do that in a tiny room. Point I'm trying to say is it's the simplest setup. If I just showed you a photo, you're like, yeah, this there's nothing special. There's nothing, it's just two lights, one you know, uh uh bouncing on the wall directly, one bouncing on the wall with the Fresnel. Nothing spectacular, but it takes experience and time, I'm saying, to know.

Matthew Lopez 1:21:29

In understanding the principles, right? Like that's that's the whole thing. It's like you have to know, like people don't think about it like that because they're oh, you're just setting up equipment. You just know gear. That's not that's not true. Gear is what supports it, but I think the main thing is that you know the principles of filmmaking, you know, you know a three-point lighting. If I asked you what a three-point lighting is, you would know what that is. You know why we would use it, you would know why that's an essential thing, you would understand why we need motivational light, right? You need to understand the logic of that. But that also comes from like, you know, you studying that, but also you gaining that experience by seeing it. You know, seeing it to believe it. You know, I I I tried it myself and now I know this is why this makes sense this way, right? Like, it's the same principle of saying, like, you know what a hammer is, but you know why the hammer has the back side and the front side, you know why the front side has the two little hooks and the backside has the like that sounds like a stupid thing, but that's that's the principle of what makes you a better, better anybody because you know like exactly why that's the way it is. Yeah, and you're filmmaking is just problem solving. Exactly. Filmmaking is problem solving.

Vipul Bindra 1:22:33

You have to be the best problem solver. Like one of my favorite things, talk about that commercial that you did was so uh my initial plan was to just use uh a sash card. So remember, I went in the studio, I had done pre-production, you know, on the second one. So I went to the studio and I looked up, they didn't have the proper grid, which again you would assume a studio like that would. But they're also they they built that studio based on big budgets, right? So they're expecting somebody to come and build the entire grid. We don't have time for that or the budget for that because that would require another whole day and then a day to take it down. That would add $10,000, $15,000 in just studio rental costs, I'm saying. So long to short, I'm like, what's the best way? I looked up the grid, I was like, okay, there's C stump stuff. Um uh I have Sash Court, I'm gonna bring Sash Court and we'll hang the 20 by uh with Sash Court. And you know, uh I don't I don't forget number 12 or number eight, which one I use. But the point is, you know, and obviously you do math behind it, you check the the you know, the load, you know, what it can take and breaking point and all that, and calculate the the way all that I had done in pre-production. But point is when I show up and set, you were the which is funny, because you were the the operator, you were hired two different roles. Day one, you're a grip, because you're an incredible grip, by the way. Uh I know we're talking more from the cinematography type here. Um, but day two, uh, you were the uh the camera operator, right? So those were your two roles. So day one, now you're a grip, uh, nothing to do with one in 4D. Uh but uh uh since you were the key guy on set uh to build that rig, I I told you my idea. I was like, look, this is what I want done, uh, and this is the way I'm thinking it. We're gonna build a 20 by, we're gonna put magic cloth on it, and then we're gonna uh put it with sash cord. And that makes it so easy to lift it and bring it down. That's where I left it, right? Rest now you're in charge. You you decide. And then next thing I know, you had built this amazing contraption with C-stand arms, and and it worked great.

Matthew Lopez 1:24:17

Because it's like it's the mindset, because like I know what the proper equipment is. The proper equipment is a telescope, telescopic lens, uh uh arm, arm thing. Yeah, yeah, it's fine. It's fancy, it's really fancy. It's like this piston thing that holds it up in the air, and you can bring and lower the the grid down. But I've done so many where they didn't have that. So, what was the solution? A C-stand. Why? Because the principle is the same. It is just a mechanism that allows you to bring it up and down, and you need some kind of locking mechanism. And if we didn't have a C-stand, I'll come up with some other crowd. That's what I'm saying.

Vipul Bindra 1:24:43

But we ended up using two C-standarms and a cartellini, but I had zero input in that, and that's what where your problem solving is. I'm I love that what I'm saying is what makes you an incredible grip. The solution at the end is not hard to think about, right? It's two C-standarms and a cartellini. Being creative and open-minded to like end things doing it because at the end of the day, you didn't bother either the DP or me, you just got it done. Yeah, because I wanted to do it.

Matthew Lopez 1:25:05

Because I like I don't like my you know, it was almost like what it was like an eight-hour or more. I don't know how long it was, but we were there almost all day. Yeah, everyone else, like you know, anyone else who would do that that doesn't like to do that. I promise you, after like the fourth hour, they get tired as like hell because they're up there all day hanging up. Not for me, I enjoy that crap. I actually generally have a passion when I come down and I put them like wow, yeah, damn, I did that all by myself. That looks awesome. Yeah, like I'm it makes me happy. It makes me happy. I don't hate that, yeah. And that's how you know that's what you want to do, and that's how people stand out.

Vipul Bindra 1:25:34

Because that's uh I think what I noticed, and then this is the part be detailed, and I'm pretty sure most filmmakers are. This is what I'm saying. I'm very non-shallanism, like I'm like I said, I was into it, somewhat a little bit less talking. Uh, but I noticed everything. I may be 10 places that day, but I was noticing, and so talk about the other guy who killed it. I think Sam. So he Sam was just supposed to be a PA that day, but I noticed like immediately he was on the enthusiastic because the same thing like you. Yeah, I show the passion, I saw the interest, and I saw the actual work. He's not just bothering you, he was helping you. But point is he was on that crane with you all day.

Matthew Lopez 1:26:07

He didn't need to do on the crane, but he wanted he was enthusiastic, and I'm not gonna stop a guy.

Vipul Bindra 1:26:12

Like five other days, and remember, uh, just so people know, Sam was just a volunteer PA, he just wanted to be on set, he's a student. Uh, while everyone else was not everyone, but I'm saying a bunch of other people were paid. So I'm saying, and not that I'm gonna blame anyone, but I'm saying Sam was the guy who jumped on, he did the thing, he went with you, and you guys basically I think it was you and Sam essentially doing that whole thing. It still makes you stand out, yeah. Exactly. And I noticed immediately, I was like, oh, now if I can have anyone on set as a grip on with you, it's gonna be Sam because I observed that. Because he he has it. And he didn't have to come once, tell me what he did, why he did, and this is the other thing I'm saying. Like a lot of people are like, oh, they're not, you know, like I gotta tell these people. I did all this. People notice, they may not say it because I never went to Sam and was like, oh, great job. Uh, I think it was the end of day three or whatever, and I was like, I I I saw what you know you did great. Point is in that moment, we're all getting things done, but doesn't think it does it, it goes unnoticed, is what I'm saying. It's about stepping up, doing what's needed, and uh, and at like I said, and it leads to more opportunities, you know, it leads to uh, and it may just not be my opportunity, it could be me recommending to other people because sometimes people are like, hey, who do I hire uh, you know, as a grip or whatever? And and that's where you could be recommending somebody you know. So uh like I said, but that was crazy. I uh and and but I loved, like I said, the solution, I loved the effort that you put in, and I love that you got it done at the end there. Same thing, I mean, everyone on set, like a Josue who came in as a as a gaffer for me, he's a DP, but because they they understand lighting. So I really like that Jose was able to uh just essentially, you know, pick up on these things that again, it's not hard, it's just the effort, like uh you know, being able to understand side its link pro, being able to do the cues, and it's so crazy. Uh something happened, and at some point he came to me, he's like, Look what I learned. And he showed me him doing a cue, and I'm like, this is incredible. But this is why you get talented people because they figure it out and they get it done. And that's all that matters at the end of the day. And you get, like you said, creative and and and and you do something better. So we had a full plan and we executed the plan as you noticed. This project didn't have any leave in like the first one. We we knew exactly what we were gonna make. We literally had shown the client uh, you know, an edit from you know, um uh kids soft sock footage or whatever shots. It was already done. There was no leeway to move around, but we were still be able to create uh were able to be creative with like lighting and other stuff like that. And that's where I think the incredible team came in because I'm noticing I and I was like, ooh, what they're doing here is great. And that's the part about I'm saying as a director on a shoot like that is you, you know, you give everyone the vision, then you let them run with it. Yeah, and as long as it's great, you go. I know I saw something where I was like, but then it's also like making sure you understand, because I know this client doesn't like like colored lights or whatever. So there was a point I think we did something like with uh color or whatever, and that's where I was like again, color is okay. I'm saying overall, like scene being fully colored. So I had to like be like, hey, no, we're not gonna do that, you know. And that was it. So it's kind of like that. It's like being present, but also like kind of letting go. Because if you have the right people, they get it done. And if you need to pivot them, you you pivot them. That's basically it.

Matthew Lopez 1:29:11

But it should be like that, it should be like the on a on a manageable set, it should be like that's the kind of roles and that's the kind of movement you want in as a director and everyone else in their roles. Everyone's collaborating, but in a not in a sense of restrictiveness, you know, like, oh, I'm gonna, there's some rules we gotta follow, but in general, we want to hit the bullseye, let's say. And then we hit the bullseye. I I generally do not care how what way we take or what role we take to make it, but I trust that we'll make it there. That's the whole point. Yeah, I trust you guys because I know your skills, I know your your your ideas. Exactly.

Bloom And Working Experimental Sets

Vipul Bindra 1:29:41

And then let's let's pivot to Bloom. So the last project we did together. Uh, the video hasn't come out, but I'm gonna do a dedicated video, but it'll probably come out much after uh this episode comes out. Um, but uh here's the unique thing about that. I don't, as a production company, so you know, obviously I'm a freelancer and I'm a I'm a double. So I'm free uh and then a production company. But as a production company, we only do corporate and commercial work, and that's on purpose because it's a business. Money is in corporate and commercial work. But just like you said, I'm a I'm a filmmaker at heart. I enjoy, you know, doing creative stuff. So uh the way I figured it out is like as a production company, we will never take on narrative. But as a freelancer, look, I'm available. If you want me to DP your short film or whatever, or come be part of your uh television show or whatever, I'm totally open to it. So talk about Sam, uh, who was on that um uh commercial with us that I was just talking about, he reached out to me. He wanted to do a film and he wanted me to DP with it. Uh and obviously it's a low budget, it's a short film, but I don't mind because I'm freelancing and I was like, so I understood his pitch. Uh it's very unique. Um, I don't even know how to describe it, it's very abstract. Yeah, it's like an experimental thing. Yeah, it's an experimental thing. So it was pretty cool. It's nothing like what I would normally, you know, do. And like I said, I like to tell stories versus here, it's like like it's abstract and experimental, it's just different, it's all in his brain, and it's my job as a DP to put it on camera. So I like the challenge. I was like, okay, I like the challenge. I like not having budget. So literally what I told him was like, if you can get me Matt on set, uh, you know, uh, it'd be great. And I think uh I think you and I were the only paid people on the set, and obviously I don't do free projects anymore. Um, but so I was like, look, but I did discount a lot. Point is I was like, look, Matt's probably not gonna come for free either, but he'll probably work with you on the budget. Just get Matt. And I think as long as you can get Matt on set and me, we we, you know, we can manage. And it's completely different. Like I said, no roan in 4D, it's just you for your problem solving skills. Like I knew you this is the type of project where sure you may have a given role. Uh whatever, that's why when we were doing the paperwork, I was like, it doesn't matter what you put because at the end of the day, you're gonna do five.

Matthew Lopez 1:31:38

Yeah, because that's the thing I love to do, is that kind of stuff. I'm not gonna like honestly, if you pay me the like my thing nowadays, like as I've been growing up with like my career, it's like at this point in my career, I've already reached a point where now I have to value my own work. Like before, like you said, I did a lot of free stuff, a lot of a lot of favors, a lot of things. Nowadays, I'm trying to find more value in what I do because I know that I'm worth that value. So now I just I just put that perspective, but that doesn't change my personality or how I approach it. If you need me to do a bunch of stuff, yeah, sure, I'll do a bunch of stuff, but I I I don't undervalue myself anymore. Like I hold myself to that that that standard and I just do what I have to do. Like you're like you paying me doesn't change my perspective. Actually, in other words, you paying me just solidifies the concept here, and I'm I'm guaranteeing you that I'm gonna be here 100%. You know, exactly. I'm I'm making you worth I'm making you your worth worth its while. That's the one from it.

Vipul Bindra 1:32:28

And uh obviously, uh so anyway, so I told him I was like, yeah, if I can get Matt and Bruno, obviously Bruno wasn't available, but he was able to secure you, and I was like, okay, we can make something magical happen. And and obviously we did. Um but coming back to it, so that was a my a very unique thing because every project I think up until then you had seen me either as a gaffer or as a uh director, never as a DP. So this is like completely different 180. I I'm not a director, like I said, I I take no credit for the story. So if you understand it or not, because it is a like I said, abstract experimental thing. That's on Sam. But as a DP, I was like, okay, we're gonna do anamorphic, we're gonna do so. We you did the Arcana lenses, so those incredible new lenses from uh DZO Film, and uh we used my FX6s. I wanted to uh use the Burano, but we didn't we and ended up not having the budget for that. And again, as a DP, you just kind of pivot, you recommend, but at the end they look, it's not my project, my not my budget money. So but point is an FX6 is still a great camera, and then we ended up using an FX3 because we wanted to do some moving shots. Uh Ronin4D was not in the picture on this one, so we used the the FX3 on a gimbal, I think. And and then the Arcana lenses are light enough, it would work for both. But point is it was very different than anything done before.

Matthew Lopez 1:33:39

So, how how do you see comparing Bloom to I feel like the the Revology commercial completely different project it is completely different, but it kind of like was a little bit reminiscing because like uh in my film career, like what I study for was experimental filmmaking. So, like it was that that's what I was studying and what I was filming. So, a lot of times, like the movies that I would make with the students that were in my class, at least, like I'd do other ones, but the ones that were pertaining there was literally that. It was that kind of perspective. So, I I mean, I when I were making the the the short film, I was like, this is relatable. I can see where he's coming from and I see where what perspective he's trying to shoot at. So, like everything he was coming up with, I had like already like a background to it. So it felt it felt kind of like uh, I guess in a sense, uh like uh refreshing, but also like uh reminding of like something I used to do that I still have the skills to do, you know. And kind of like saying, like, wow, you know, I kind of paid off even the classes, because like I personally wasn't a fan of experiment. I'm not like a full on like lover of experimental, but I I learned how to respect it because of like the time and effort they put into things and then the unique perspective they get out of it. So, like, like that, even though I didn't think would ever be used ever again, it did. And I was like, wow, that's uh it's funny how like even small things like that, you being able to learn those things at a younger age and being open to like taking like free gigs and stuff like that comes around and pays off and and in in getting the guy's perspective.

Vipul Bindra 1:35:01

And it does require a lot of understanding because uh at the end of the day, look, I won't say I fully understood you know everything about that project, but I understood enough to you know DP the thing. But um, at the same time, you want to, you know, fully I'm saying understand what the director wants to show, and a lot of that was supposed to be done in post. So we have to make sure that we capture it in a way that he has whatever he needs to do this in post. And so keeping that in mind that you know it's not gonna be 100% obviously what we're filming. So to know what post, how he's gonna edit, how he's gonna go, you know, it in it is very important to have that full understanding, otherwise, you're not gonna be able to get his vision right. But I love working with you on that one. What's your perspective? Was it different? I'm I'm I think I'm the same guy, but like as a D me as a DP versus me as a director, is there any difference?

Matthew Lopez 1:35:49

I mean, it's like you said, it's the role. Like as a producer, you were like when we're on those other sets, you were like more leaning, even though you were like sometimes the director, you were mainly like the producer, so you you manage you're more managing than anything else. On this one, you're playing the the the DP role, so like this one it it felt like you were more dedicated with the camera, you were more uh, you know, like leaning towards whatever the guys wanted. You weren't like you weren't forcing the guy to like come into a perspective, you were just trying to make his perspective alive. Yeah, so yeah, I mean it it comes down to the role. You're playing the role of a DP, and in and that that is what like kind of stands out because you know, some people can't switch like that. Yeah, that's how I see sometimes people get stuck on one role and then they're like, Yeah, yeah, I'm not gonna be able to do it.

Vipul Bindra 1:36:29

Because you know, as a director, I'm sure I've seen the script now. I there's stuff I would want to change, but uh that's not my goal. My goal is to discuss with Sam, figure out what he wants and approach it from that lens, exactly, and ultimately get his vision um, you know, on camera. Because, like I said, there's a lot of posts involved, there's a lot of symbolism and stuff like that. You cannot do that if I just start putting my thing. Obviously, that doesn't mean we didn't do our experimental stuff in on the idea of a guy and see what he wants, but in the end, it's whatever like the perspective. Yeah, one thing like you, you, you did, uh, and it's 100% you uh is the sticker thing at the end. Yeah, you know, uh, and and I really like that, but that's uh what it is you basically telling him what your idea is and and pitching it to him and him saying, you know what? Yeah, I like it, and let's do it.

Matthew Lopez 1:37:12

It's coming from that perspective too, like like I said about experimental, because I remember like when I was in the classes, they would have like some sorts of do stuff like that where they would add stickers or like weird, sublimable, like metaphorical things. And I was like, that kind of right works with your vibe. Use an idea, but you always want to pitch it in a way where you're not forcing it upon the guy, you're just giving it like it's his own idea. That's how I've I've I've seen it with uh DPs and directors when they they collaborate, is that typically when you are you're the DP and you want to give an idea to a director, the trick is to just pitch it like as if it's an like like an idea in general, not like something that they could take, but like like just give it to them, like say, hey, you know, I saw this and this, like a normal conversation. If they like it, they'll take it, they'll take that idea. Because typically, if you have it more towards like, hey, we need to do this, or hey, this would look better, they'll they'll have more problems accepting that kind of idea because it feels like you're forcing it upon them. But when you give them an open perspective and you give them something that they might like, they have more prone to like listen to it, right? Because that's that's that's I guess that's the it's a note to approach directors. This is like a note in general. Don't be forceful as a DP. You want to be creative, you want to be like collaborative, but you also want to be like mindful of the way you approach it because it is his idea, you know. You don't wanna you wanna you don't want to step boundaries, but you want to also give him uh an opening to come up with new stuff as well, you know. That that is that's the that's the balance between that, you know, as a DP to a director is that you need to be like you you you because you know what makes you a good DP is being creative. You have to come up with ideas in the moment too, but it's not like to control the director's perspective, right? That's that it's that friendship between the two of them. If you can find that middle ground, then you gotta you got a good duo right there.

Vipul Bindra 1:38:56

Yeah, and uh what do you think about the um the arcana's? They were incredible. That that was awesome. I love it.

Matthew Lopez 1:39:01

I was surprised how amazing it looks lightweight, the gray, the the the the the D squeeze was awesome. And I mean, just in general, the look of it is really yeah.

Vipul Bindra 1:39:10

We were going a little shallower than I'd liked, but um, you know, it it looks still incredible. And I love the uh the barrel, you know, distortion and all that in it. Like you said, if we're gonna do anamorphic, I feel like you should do it.

Matthew Lopez 1:39:21

It's it's not and it's not bad for the price, you know. You get a set of three lenses and 30k, it's ridiculous.

Vipul Bindra 1:39:27

Yeah, and wait till a year and they'll be discounted because that's how DZO lenses are. You if you can wait long enough, they get discounted. So uh, you know, Chinese lenses are just killing it in the market. And I feel like DZO Film is one of those companies that is like because they they, you know, if you think about it, like they designed it to sell, like um, you know, using that 1.5 squeeze, knowing that it'll work with a lot of 16 by 9 sensors, then also making sure that the boca looks 2x because obviously people want that look, so they went with that oval um, you know, aperture or whatever. Point is, I think they were very smart with the design, they were very aggressive with the pricing, and I think it's the best because obviously anamorphic lenses are getting very popular, but to have lenses at that price point, I don't think anything in that price point comes slows. And actually, funny enough, for me, um, uh I've shot a few commercials with the with the mercurys. I'm like, I am not unless obviously we have the budget to rent them, I would rather go use Arcana's anywhere Mercury's, you know, where we're used. Obviously, this doesn't change Orion and all the fancy stuff I'm saying. But where I'm saying in the past, you would have at least needed a budget to rent Atlas Mercuries. Now you can go use these, and these are dark cheap to rent. I mean, barely even makes a difference. So you can use them on any level of project. It's just nuts. I'm just saying, like, and then obviously we own sets. I own the Vespa 2 and the RLZU on the Vespa 2. We have enough experience with DZO film. What do you think about this company, right?

Matthew Lopez 1:40:46

I think I think they're really trying to like be competitive and they're trying to like take the forefront of like I guess compact, affordable lenses. That's how I see it. Compact, cinematic, affordable lenses. Like, you know, just even like anything they have in their price range right now, it's like it's super affordable, but not only that, the quality and the look of that cook that if people like cook lenses, they they have that similar look to them. That's what I think they're they're they're winning people over with, is that we're not these like you know, really expensive, almost like you know, uh uh basically clean lenses with no characteristics. It's like no, we're we're bringing these unique, you know, characteristic lenses at a great price. Yeah, and not only that, are leaning towards the running for the gimbal cameras, stuff like that. So you're manageable and it's easy to just run and gun it.

Vipul Bindra 1:41:35

And I like what they've done the last few years because I I wasn't a fan of when they first came out with the Pavos and the not Pavos, um pictor zooms and the uh I think the original respits. I used them uh once or whatever, I think each of them, and I was like, you know, this is like vintage look. So unless you're doing a project like a music whatever, whatever, you want the vintage look. It's not for me. And I like what they've done with the Vespite 2s, with the R's, with these Arcanas, with the extract. I think they've kind of understood where they stand. Uh like I love Nisi products, they're they're incredible, but that's why, like, whenever I get a choice, I typically lean towards DZ or film instead of Nisi, because like you said, Nisi is like that that clean, you know, the best you can make, uh, you know, at a like I would say almost rivaling Sigma. Um, and and the thing is, but that's not what you want for your project. I want the roll-off, I want the looks, but at the same time, I don't want too much of a look to be vintage. So I'm saying this I find like the R's or the rest of the middle should be right in the middle where it's like you can use, they're way more versatile. Obviously, it doesn't mean all these other lenses aren't. It's just but they would be specific, right? You have to want the the vintage look or you want an absolute clean look for a product shot or whatever. But I'm saying for most average shoots, you want to be somewhere in the middle, and that's where I feel like they're fitting. So I think they're gonna get incredibly popular. Uh I mean, there already are. But do

Chinese Gear Disruption And DJI Debate

Vipul Bindra 1:42:54

you see an issue? Like, let's think about it. Like most of my favorite things now, I'm saying, uh, are like Chinese companies. Uh you for even more, like the Ronin 4D, DJI, uh, lenses, uh, you know, Zio Film, uh, and also um uh talk about uh lighting, all aperture. So it's like Chinese companies are taking over. What's happening to these Japanese and German companies?

Matthew Lopez 1:43:14

I mean, the reality is they're seeing that there's a there is a need for it in a market, you know, and like people would argue it's like because we're getting brainwashed with this type of like, you know, stuff. But I think of it like this. I think of it it's just the they've done this for a while, you know, they've always been doing it, but the difference is now there's more cultural appropriation. Is that the correct word for it? Like it's just more people are are comfortable with it, more people are are used to it now that it's become more of an American style like camera, even though it's not, it has become like the way we we we approach it, you know, like our our our we're trying to ban DJ out of existing things. But that's what I'm saying, but our consumer our consumer won't let us. No, yeah. We're so we're so prone to like wanting like these like like super versatile, very like convenient cameras, right? We're not it's not like we're looking for things that are like more inconvenient. We're looking for things that are like like uh you know, we're looking for things that are more convenient, not less inconvenient. So like what I'm trying to say is like you know, these new cameras, that that's all they're doing. These new companies, or not new companies, but these companies, they're what they're doing, like DGI, what they're doing is just compactability, usability, like they're drones. It's it's these compact, small, usable cameras that you can take and fly anywhere and with zooms and stuff like that. The Sony, same thing. They just came out with the Sony uh FX5. It's it's it's just more compatibility and more features into a smaller camera. It's not the opposite.

Vipul Bindra 1:44:37

I know that Ron and 4D didn't sell, but man, if DJ I just put the took the 4D out of it, like they made, like I'm saying, an FX style camera.

Matthew Lopez 1:44:45

That would be like I feel like if they had if they had approached it like it was a normal rigged camera and then the the gimbal thing was an accessory that can build onto it, yeah. I think then maybe people like which is what the flex is, which don't get me wrong, you could make this into a full handheld, but then it's the rolling shutter, right? It's the it's the it's those other things where it like it demands the gimbal that makes the people kind of like, uh, you know.

Vipul Bindra 1:45:07

No, and I think they can sell both both because then they'll sell so much more. For example, like I own FX3s, FX5s to go on gimbals, and FX6s, you know, I'm saying, uh, or and Burano to go on the the sticks. So I'm saying there's a market for both. I feel like, and maybe they'll do it, but they haven't done it in five four or five years. I mean, long time. Uh, they've had this, uh, you know, and now there's newer generation of sensors. Point is, but DJI is if any company can do it, it'd be DJI, like making an FX3 style version of the same camera, then an FX6 style version, and then obviously keeping that because I feel like Ronin 4D is cool. Obviously, that's why we love using it. But it is such a specialty camera, it's not your old all-around camera. So, but to have that that space, and they don't need to design it fully. Like, like you said, make a compact, make a you know, like a box style, and make a 4D version.

Matthew Lopez 1:45:52

It'd be take take a note from Sony. Sony is the perfect example of a company that literally has done that. It's it's it has a progressive camera for every single one. Like, oh, you don't want the FX3? Well, there's the FX6. If you don't want the FX6, you got the FX9. If you want the FX9, you got the Burano and Venice and Venice 2. Yeah, that if that's all the way to Hollywood. If that's not strategic consuming and marketing, I don't know what is. That is like the the definition.

Vipul Bindra 1:46:23

What they don't have is a Ronan 4D competitor, yeah. Which is what I'm saying. DJI could do it. Uh, if any company, I just don't know who had DJI's and done it. Yeah, exactly. Uh, and and I'm not a fan that, you know, as a as a country, uh, you know, and uh we're trying to ban them because here's the thing look, I would be all for an American company coming in competing with DJI, but they are not. GoPro is literally about to go out of business, so they can't even compete on action cameras. Talk about something making like a run 4D or drones, you know.

Matthew Lopez 1:46:50

They're the ones invested in the technology, they're the ones that have already been invested in the technology. You're you're basically stripping away like something that could because it's not gonna stop them either. They're gonna keep making it in other countries and stuff like that. And you know what's gonna happen to your consumer filming. Yeah, we'll have we'll have people like literally moving to those countries just to like be able to own the equipment or film in those countries because or just go and buy it from there and come back. Exactly, and come back. But what I'm saying is like, it's just the concept of like you you you're taking away, uh, uh, in my opinion, uh, a gold mine that's about to like shoot out because it's not it's not like like capping out, it's shooting out because that's what nowadays people are looking for. It's is more like small, compact cameras that you can film with that have high cinema quality level like stuff, and it's not gonna go anywhere, it's just gonna approach it even more, like what these YouTubers making films and all that stuff. That all is like a like a domino effect. You know, what's gonna happen when you have YouTubers making movies? People want to make movies, so they want to film movies, they want to film movies with cameras and cinema cameras, so they're gonna want to buy from Sony or DJI or whatever. You get the point, it's a domino effect, yeah.

Vipul Bindra 1:47:53

And it's it's all about getting people's butts and seats. That's all that matters as a filmmaker. I know uh again, this is where the snobbish part of a filmmaker comes in. You know, you can oh, this this director, this camera, this lens, or whatever. But at the end they look, here's what makes the movie great people's butts and seats. And and for a while we've been like Hollywood's dying, and guess what obsession did? It got people in seats. It doesn't matter as a YouTuber, it didn't matter what it was. If you can get people to go to the movie theater, that's the movie, right? And and and and again, like same thing, people are like, oh, Marvel is dying, superhero, and then look, Spider-Man, everyone's butts and it was making a good movie.

Matthew Lopez 1:48:30

You have you have the audience's attention. No more that we are in like entertainment-consuming like culture. We're never gonna that's not gonna die. There's no way it's gonna die.

Vipul Bindra 1:48:40

The only way it's gonna die if we lose personality and we or we make shitty movies like James Gunn. I mean, I love him as a director, but Supergirl, and well, I don't know if he directed that, but point is DC, he's in charge of the new DC or whatever. Point is super girl, failed miserably, apparently lost them a couple hundred million uh you know, uh dollars or whatever, which is nuts. So, but then you know I'm saying people then go, oh, superhero movies don't work, but they do. They do Spider-Man just made billions of dollars.

Matthew Lopez 1:49:03

It's the approach, it's the approach. You have an audience for it and you have an interest for it, but you're also marketing it and you're finding the right actors, and all that those are all caveats to the the larger, you know, uh goal or the thing. It's like that's why those movies made success. Why did Markiply make success? It's because he had a hundred million, whatever it is, subscribers already waiting for it. They were waiting for the freaking movie.

Vipul Bindra 1:49:26

And also, I'm saying finding their and a lot of people go, yeah, if only I could have talented actors. But here's the thing before Obsession, and I I truly believe the the one actor uh out of the movie that's uh gonna shoot up is like that indie, I forget her Navarte, however you say her name, the main actress. I think she's gonna be superstar because her acting is top tier. I'm talking uh, you know, award winning level of acting, but she was an indie actor. You'd realize that movie shot a year or two before. She had no barely any work. Anyone of people watching this could have hired an actor at that level and probably paid her not that much money, I'm saying. Uh to act in your movie. Obviously, now good luck getting hurt. But point is there's hundreds and hundreds of actors like that are so talented that are not famous that you can actually hire. As long as you know you do good work in casting and finding these talented people, you can do an Oscar-level movie with your FX3s and you know your indie actors who are willing to work for pennies.

Matthew Lopez 1:50:21

I I think that the secret sauce is the concept of marketing. You have to you can make your indie film, you can make yourself what makes you the million dollars or what makes you the box office, you know, ticket is the marketing, it's the approachability. And also making something good, like look at a profession. Yeah, of course. That too, yeah. But I'm saying like it's it's the it's the perspective of like you have an audience waiting for your movie, right? You made a great film, you wrote it and you directed it, and it's amazing. But you have to have an audience that is waiting for that and is wanting to go to the movies when it comes out. And that only comes with you know the concept of like building, building a reputation, building, building a marketing, building, and that gets skipped. I feel like a lot of times that does. They wait until the they finish finally film the movie, and then they like spend all their budget in marketing. But in my opinion, that's a little too too late to be you know doing that. Because you should have been already addressing this from the beginning, you know. If like I don't want to say it like this, but like it's true. Some of the the success of Spider-Man is because you have Toby Maguire. Like, I mean, you have um Tom Holland and you have Zendaya and you have these these.

Vipul Bindra 1:51:25

Yeah, but you say that, but the first movie that he wasn't a known name. No, exactly, but it's built up. But also it's IP, I totally get it's Spider-Man. But regardless, yeah, but it's a two billion, yeah. It's nuts, you know.

Matthew Lopez 1:51:34

It's like the built, it's the building of the reputation, right? You have you you if you're you're following these characters, you find these people, and you've you you've you've progressively watched them on social media, TV, whatever, right? And they come up with another movie back to back to back to back. You know, you have uh, you know, Odyssey, you have you you you it's like it's yeah, the success is.

Vipul Bindra 1:51:53

But they are doing, but but hey, coming back to it, like for whatever, long time we didn't have a movie doing really well. So the whole idea is hey, Hollywood's dying or whatever, but then you see back to back, and people are willing to spend money. Like I said, we had back-to-back backrooms, obsession success, uh, odyssey, and Spider-Man. So people are willing to go to the theater multiple times as long as you make good stuff. My whole perspective on this is as simple as that. We were making shitty movies, nobody wants to go see them. Simple as that. Nobody knows what the movie is, or they they don't care. Or I'm saying viral marketing goes. Because even I'm saying obviously you have to get it to distribution in a theater, but I'm saying even if let's say, I don't know, you get 20 people in the movie theater, here's what happens with obsession, for example, with me. I was not part of the marketing hype. But if I'm going on, say, like I was in Chicago and Emmanuel's like, Have you seen obsession? You know, Mario's like, Have you seen you know what I mean? It's like if my whole brain and I'm going on Reddit and everyone's talking about obsession, so it's like, and it was free marketing because people were enjoying the movie so much, right? So I'm saying is you cannot then escape it. Then I was like, okay, I have to go see it. I hope that makes sense. Yeah, and it wasn't not somebody like I'm saying, a marketing channel, at least for that movie, never hit me. It was the environment, right? People are you know talking about it for free because they enjoyed the movie so much. So my whole thing is if you make something incredible, coming to I know it's so random, but in my world, uh go watch the first video done by Dollar Shave Club. I don't know if you remember that company uh started like a direct-to-consumer brand, you know, selling you freaking razors. Anyone can sell you razors, but I'm saying they didn't even design original labors, they bought and uh they bought basically bought razors from some other company and rebranded them. Uh long story short, their entire first-I mean, that video is so viral, like it's incredible. I'm saying, in terms of marketing, they didn't have to spend so much money becoming a huge company, all and now that company's basically going out of business. So let's not, but and that's what I'm saying. It's good marketing. All they had to do was continue making that edgy videos. But I'm saying, as a as a as a filmmaker, right? Nobody looks at that video and goes, what camera was it shot on? What software was it editing on? The video was so good that people went, Oh, I gotta share this. I gotta share this. And next thing you know, it's everything.

Matthew Lopez 1:54:03

It's like appliance direct, you know, appliance direct. It's like I every every uh commercial you see him, he's like, he's got a new like eye patch or a new wound, and you're like, you're more concerned about the guy's health and the commercial, but that was good marketing, yeah. Because it in a sense, you you you've captivated the audience and you have them like interested into the next the next thing and the next thing, you know.

Vipul Bindra 1:54:21

Exactly. So and at the end they uh you know people get uh connected to the company. And obviously, if you have to sell something good, I'm not saying yeah, you can have a bad product at the end of it, but if you have a good problem and you you're giving a solution, but if you're giving in an entertaining way where everyone wants to like share, because that's what I'm saying marketing is, uh, you know, you win. So uh, you know, because I have companies who come in and like we don't have you know a million dollar distribution budget or whatever. It's like you don't need it as long as you make something great. Yeah, uh, but then I also have you know the other companies, I'm saying the other side of it is works, but they do have a million-dollar budget, as in like they come, they're like, hey, by the way, this is gonna go everywhere, we're gonna have million dollars, you know. So I'm like, it doesn't matter what you make, it's gonna go places. Obviously, you want to make something great, but not everyone needs to have that big budget to distribute it. I'm saying at the end of the day, make something good.

Matthew Lopez 1:55:10

It's just you have to be passionate about it. Because if you if you if you make the film and you don't feel passionate about it, how do you gonna be able to sell that to somebody?

Vipul Bindra 1:55:18

Exactly.

Matthew Lopez 1:55:18

So I think that is that is the core. I do agree. That is the core. You need to have some kind of great film in your head, you have to have this thing already developed. So by the time you come to pitch it, you're not like, How do I lie and make this sound better than what I think it is? It's not like that. It should be like, How do I like make them see what I see? Because I clearly see it way better than them.

Vipul Bindra 1:55:38

Yeah, make it make it better. Now I also notice the other side of it. Look, I know people, and you and I obviously love gear, but I I use gear to tell, you know, as tools, right? Uh, but I also think a lot of people then start the other side of it and then they don't use the right tools, like as in I have you know, I know people like say on their corporate jobs they'll use FX3s or whatever, which is fine. They're more than enough cameras to do a corporate job, but then they'll somehow land, I don't know, a 30 grand commercial somehow, you know, you get lucky. And that's uh but and and then they're like using the same FX3s. And I'm like, sure, if that's the right tool, but I'm like, you have the budget to use the better tools. They're like, oh yeah, I'm gonna use a softbox here. Why? Because that that looks good on corporate remote. I'm like, but yeah, you have the budget, let's do something better. I hope that makes sense. And so that's also I'm saying not improving because it's hard to understand if you've never done it. It's like, but why do I need to make better? Well, because that five, 10% matter. That's why they're giving you the higher budget to do your best level of work, right? Um, and not to, I'm saying half asset. Now, yes, for a corporate, putting up a dome, putting up a tiny camera is more than enough. Now I'm saying is it necessary, but if you have the budget and the resources, all this stuff costs you nothing. You know, somebody like me, I already have the frames and stuff, I'm saying in the van. The only reason we're not using that is usually that we don't want to or we don't have time. So I'm saying if you are given a bigger budget, you are given bigger resources, then use them, right? Make the best product that you can. Don't be lazy or uh, you know, or or use the principles I'm saying uh of corporate intercommercial. If you don't uh if you you know are not stuck with it. Like I obviously I get it. It's like if for some reason that's the only best way, then you do it, you know, like giving my bounce example from earlier. But I'm saying I've noticed that too. There's the opposite side of it. A lot of times people just don't want to improve the bar. So they basically, uh what I'm saying is they get 30 grand or five grand, the output is the same. That's not how it should be. You know what I mean? Improve, bring better people in, bring better resources and give a better product. Uh, you know, just don't try to make 99% profit. But there are filmmakers like that, and then they come to me, at least we'll have conversations like, yeah, I never got another 30 grand project after that ever. And it's like, yeah, because you look at your 30 grand project, it's great. I'm not discounting their work, but it looks like your five grand project. So why would a client will ever give you 30 grand account?

Matthew Lopez 1:57:54

Yeah, you're not putting the extra effort once you're given the opportunity to put the extra effort.

Vipul Bindra 1:57:58

Exactly. It's rare, and that's how you want to keep getting bigger stuff, is by giving it your 100%. And and whatever that is, I'm not just saying overspend just to overspend, but use the right resources. Bring in the better people. Like I was saying earlier, if you're the smartest person in the room, you're not in the right room. No, and you're in the smartest person set or in the most talented person set, you're not in the right set. You need to always bring in people more talented than you, smarter than you, just so you can make something better together. You know what I mean? That makes you a better person. Yeah. Uh then you know.

Matthew Lopez 1:58:26

If you're not learning every moment you're doing something in the film industry, you're not really taking advantage of the film industry. Like everyone's got some some opinion on something. If you don't learn anything when you were talking to them, then you're in the wrong place, brother.

Vipul Bindra 1:58:38

Exactly. So, what would you tell yourself?

Health, Longevity, And Career Mindset

Vipul Bindra 1:58:40

Let's say I mean you're you like you go back to your college days and you have this knowledge of now. What would you tell yourself? Like, if you could tell you know yourself anything.

Matthew Lopez 1:58:48

I would say I should have invested in this way, way, way younger. Like, I mean, I did. I when I was like a kid, I used to make short films, but it was like a it was like a fun thing. It was a it was like a like I just do it when I was a kid, but not like taking it seriously. Like if I can invest all my time, effort, money, whatever I had into this earlier, I would. Yeah, because like it's like it's like I said, it's once you find it's your passion, once you find it's like the thing that you want to do in life, then it's like, wow, why why haven't I why didn't I like find this out earlier? You know, why did I waste all my time, you know, thinking about what is my purpose in life when I could have had it like earlier in life? That's that's how I see it, at least. If I were to want to tell myself, start sooner, basically. Yeah, start sooner, get more involved. You know, there was more chances when you had you were younger than you are now, you know, you're older, you're slower. Like, that's another thing people don't believe, but like, you know, the film industry is a very taxing, you know, physically taxing job. It will, it will slowly deteriorate you. And the hope is that you try to live long enough that you can get to your goal in that life. But that's that's something I would give advice to any any filmmaker. Uh your health is not a second thing.

Vipul Bindra 1:59:54

Yeah, I mean, look, uh focus on your health and also it's not an easy job, but let's be uh positive on that. But I'm saying it's not construction, it's better than that. But it is no.

Matthew Lopez 2:00:03

If you're lifting heavy objects, you're lifting heavy cameras, you know, your back, you're you know, it's it's it's yeah, just just be just try to try to try to be mindful. Like if you're on a set and you know there's a bunch of junk food there, don't don't like just harf that and then smoke a cigarette because like like eventually that's gonna catch up to you. And no matter if you're the greatest director in the world, like that would really suck. You know, you spend 50 years of your life and then you pass out because like yeah, you couldn't make it to the finish line. Exactly. This is definitely like one of those those careers where it's like you gotta be like physically like ready to run the marathon because it's a marathon.

Vipul Bindra 2:00:35

Hey, they'll have velches, right? Is that the physical? But don't eat them. You know, I actually learned this lesson as a producer a long, long time ago. I used to try to be healthy and since I would only bring like fruits, so somebody's like, Where's why are you just kidding? You know, so I was like, you know what? I learned that you look, you have to make people happy. So as a producer, you will bring uh unhealthy stuff on set. Yeah, for them. But you yourself, I'm saying, like you said, make the better choice, eat the banana and the apple that they brought instead instead of the Welches and uh I don't know what other junk we do. But you know what I mean? Yeah, donuts, you know.

Matthew Lopez 2:01:05

You want to make your movie and feel great too.

Vipul Bindra 2:01:07

You don't want to wake a movie and then you go home and you're like, ah, the arm and hey, it catches up because I'm sure a lot of people, if you've ever seen me in previous seasons and now, there's a big difference. That came from literally that I didn't do something magical, I just started eating healthy on set.

Matthew Lopez 2:01:20

And you'd be surprised, isn't that like I this is my opinion at least, but like it helps you might mentally too. It gives you a better perspective, right? Yeah, because it like it kind of like motivates you because now that you have this motivation to like try to keep yourself like in check, everything else kind of like falls to because like you know, if if I'm motivating myself to do this, I better be motivating myself for my career and like everything else because it has to, you know, like it's like I think that's also about uh, you know, like I said, making conscious decisions.

Vipul Bindra 2:01:47

Like for me, the hard part is bro, like I am a foodie, so being on New York, it's like I want to go to a halal car, you know, eat that chicken over, or whatever, like, or you know, you're like I said, you're in a great steakhouse and you want to get, you know, I don't know, uh baked potato with that. I I don't freaking know, but I'm trying to say is like, or you're in set, you you you're like, ooh, that donut looks delicious. I'm saying there's life is full of temptations, yeah. It's just prioritizing it for me, at least. I I can't speak for everyone. It was going, what is important to me, and it was like, what do I enjoy in life? Food? It's like, no, I enjoy filmmaking. Well, then here you go. Then stop prioritizing food. Sure, it's delicious, but if you know what's unhealthy, then there's the healthier choices, you know what I mean? Like eat a couple eggs, you know what I mean? Or eat some chicken, eat some broccoli, you know, or whatever you find that's somewhat healthy and delicious. You know, eat some Mediterranean food, eat could go eat kebabs. I love that. I we went to with um talk about Adam again. We went to um where was we in DC and Virginia, and uh, you know, we ate two days at this Greek place. You know what I mean? Like, could we have gone to Chick-fil-A or something else, you know? But but instead we were like, hey, let's go there. And we went the first time, it was so good. We went we the second they were like, Well, what are we eating? Same place again. Point is there's always better choices. It's you know, you can make it. I could have easily said, no, let's go to you know, whatever unhealthy place fit in here. Uh and and like I said, and it was good food too. It wasn't it's like bad food, it's just making better choices ultimately will extend your career and just like you said, give you clarity. And at the end of it, look, do what's best for you. We're not here to this is just us having a conversation, many that we've had before. It's just the first one being recorded, and and uh, and you know, at the end day, look, I feel which is where you and I I think connect is we're both passionate about this stuff. Like I would be doing this even if I wasn't making money. We're just lucky that we are able to make money from what we love, and so it doesn't feel like a job anymore. You know what I mean? I'd rather do this. Um, and and and which the whole reason I feel like I'm even ever now public with this is because I want other people to uh, you know, not be those broke artists because there is so much money to be made in this, it's just you have to bring in that business owner mindset, however much I enjoy being creative. Like I said, if I could, I'd just direct, produce, deep, you know, cinematic, either be the DP on set. I don't want to do any of the business stuff. But the reason I'm able to do this so much is because I'm a good business owner. I have that business mindset, and if I can share anything, is that because there's billion other people on YouTube who can teach you creative stuff, and and it doesn't mean I don't want to teach people about my cinematography or whatever, but there's not that many people teaching you real business stuff. Just teaching you to value yourself. Like I feel like that's the main thing. And also how to show value to other people. What I'm saying is you're valuable to me on set because of what you bring. You know what I mean? So if you I hope that makes sense. Not that I'm saying there's a million other people who would be watching this who's like, I can do what Matt does. You know what I mean? But they're not on set, not because they're not great people, it's because you are, like I said, passionate about it. You bring that energy that I want on my set, simple as that. So if I can bring you on set, I am bringing you on set, right?

Matthew Lopez 2:04:56

And if you can be like that, you know, then you And I mean honestly, if if someone on on YouTube right now is saying, ah, I can do what Matt does, then that's good. Then you're step one, you have accomplished step one in this this task, which is basically you've motivated yourself to do it. Now do it. Now do it, do better than that. And remember, if you have to tell people you can do it, then then exactly, then you're not in the in the right spot. You should be right now sitting down telling yourself, like, I can do what this guy does, and then go do it and then let people notice.

Vipul Bindra 2:05:25

You know when you're do you're capable of it, when people come tell you that you're great. Exactly. Right? Yeah, and the best way they tell you is with their money. So if they they're hiring you again, you're the right guy.

Matthew Lopez 2:05:35

And like it's just motive, yeah. Just that's if you're wondering what the skill or the the the thing you need to take, it's that. It's just that that that feeling you have where you're saying, man, I can do that too, and and just do it, you've you've already accomplished what like 60% of like the population has not done. Yeah. Because that's where that's where that that that's where that stops, right there. They watch the video, they say I can do it, but do you do it? No, you don't do it because it's that it's that self, I guess, lack of self-worth. Even though you say you can do it, you don't have the like the will and the worth that you believe in yourself and you're like saying, Yeah, you know what? I am worth that. I'm worth that and probably more. That guy sells himself for $400 a day or $500 a day. I can sell myself for that too, because I know the value that I have. I know that I can do that. If you know you can do that, do it then. Yeah, there's nothing stopping you. See, that's the problem.

Vipul Bindra 2:06:25

Because there's always gonna be somebody higher than price point you do and then lower price point you deal. Stop focusing on that and just be the best that you can be. Motivate yourself to do the thing that you have to do.

Matthew Lopez 2:06:35

Stay, get out of the your phone right now and go walk and do the video, and then tell yourself, you know, like, wow, like if that was that easy, then if I'm gonna approach anybody in any business, you know, it it should be the same way. You know, I I'm gonna approach it like how I I value myself and then and expect that, you know, and then and hold myself accountable of that. Yeah, and you'll see it, it'll start to roll and it'll become bigger and bigger until you're in a career that you were surprised 10 minutes ago you thought you couldn't do.

Vipul Bindra 2:07:04

Yeah. Hopefully, not that many people have made it to this point because I'm about to not tell you because I don't want people hitting up my phone. But point is I get emails all day, every day from people. A lot of times they get ignored, you know. But if somebody calls me, I generally answer my phone because you know it could be a client. But point is uh you would be amazed. I talk to everyone. I've had people who call me or like, hey, give me advice or whatever. I do it for free and I talk to them. I'm not like unless I'm on set, obviously then be like, I'm on set, but I'm saying normally, uh, if somebody calls me, they're like, hey Bindra, I've been I I I see your video or I saw you on set or whatever. I wanna like how do I get more clients or whatever? I'm saying I'm gonna give you advice. Please don't hit me up, but I don't want 200 phone calls, but but you know what I mean. Uh long story short, but I'm saying I would. I if I can physically answer the phone call and I can physically talk to them, I would. So I'm saying find people like that. And you're saying I'm saying no matter who you are, it doesn't matter if today you make zero or you make a million dollars doing this. There's always somebody doing better than you. Just call those people, reach out to those people, send them an email, send them a text, call them because it does work, at least with me. You know, because what I'm saying is like, and and again, do it to 10 people because obviously I get it. Five people may not answer, but you will eventually get someone because at the end of the day, I feel like you should be talking to somebody doing better than you or where you want to be. And and and that's how you'll get there.

Matthew Lopez 2:08:21

Yeah, I see, I see the minds. This is the perspective in general. Like, you know, the the reason why people don't get somewhere is because they tell themselves they can't. I mean, it sounds it sounds stupid, but it's true. Yeah, it's it's as simple as that. Yeah, you you you say, oh, you know, that person's successful because this, this, and this. Those are excuses. The the reality of the situation is the guy just chose the the the next day after today that he wanted to stop being poor and he wanted to make money. So he went and made money. Yeah, like it's the persistence. Yeah, you're not gonna get the first job or the third job or the fifth one, and you could even make up a real this realistic, unrealistic number, say, oh, it's gonna take me 200 jobs. But guess what? Once you get to 200 jobs, you will you'll get there. That's what I'm saying. It's like it's it's it's just taking the first step. It's just telling yourself, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this now. I'm gonna be the filmmaker I wanted to be in my life. You know, I'm gonna spend the time and effort. I'm not, I'm gonna stop making excuses for myself.

Vipul Bindra 2:09:13

Yeah, be on set, call people, go be do BTS for free, provide value and and then then also get the value, observe, watch, learn. Because here's the thing uh, you know, everyone wants to get that $50,000 commercial, that $100,000 commercial, that million dollar commercial. But what you don't realize is there was an agency or a business or you know, like a somebody who trusted someone to give that money. It's not about skill, uh, you know, obviously become a better filmmaker. But what I'm saying is you have to think, put yourself in the shoes. Let's say you today need a commercial for your company, right? And so if you're pay taking $100,000 and giving it to someone, imagine that. That's a lot of money. A lot of people think business o $100,000, nothing. No matter what, even if it's a huge company, there's somebody's job on the line. Can you imagine being the marketing director who spent $100,000 to and then the commercial came out shitty or gave them back press? So, what I'm saying is put yourself in the shoes of that business owner, that marketing director, that agency owner. If they're giving you that huge of a money, 30 grand, 50 grand, 100 grand, whatever, that's a lot of trust, right? And if they're not doing that currently, is because you're not there yet. All you have to do is find people, build these relationships where they trust you to do that. Stop thinking that you know you're bad or you're good. I'm saying skill has nothing to do with trust, and that is a human element that a lot of filmmakers know.

Matthew Lopez 2:10:37

It's going back to the beginning of this Hulk podcast. What is the mindset when someone hires you? I would rather hire someone who has no skill at all. Like he could be a freaking moron. It sounds crazy, but he can literally know nothing. But because he's a hard worker, he's a mind, his mindset is just to absorb everything. I wouldn't mind spending two to three hours teaching this guy like about stuff because he's gonna remember it and it's gonna pay off in the end because he's gonna remember me teaching him. You see, like it's a it's a train of events that in the end, that is the principle. I don't like it's not about oh, I need to spend years of of learning, I gotta get these cameras, I gotta do this, this, and that. No, no, it's not. It's about, hey, you know, uh, you know, are you doing a short film this week? Yeah, uh, I'm here to learn experience, you know. And once you get to that point, it's it's all steps, right? Once you get to that point of learning experience and getting enough experience, now it's like, oh, people know you. Okay, hey, and they call you back because they will. They'll call you back and you'll be like, oh, for we need you for this gig. Oh, okay, now I'm offering, now I'm offering my services. Now I'm gonna put a price on it because now I value it because I've built it. And then from there, you built your price. And then what's that? What's the next step? Well, the next step is usually either to lead on to your career and make an individual freelancer or make a business. That's those are the steps. It's as simple as that.

Vipul Bindra 2:11:48

There's exactly putting an effort to it. I'm just saying, whatever you are. Like currently, you know a little bit about your camera, that's fine. Go beyond sets, learn more. You want to be first AC, play it, spend time with the cameras that you're gonna, you know. First AC on other sets. Like for me, I'll I'll end this at this. My biggest thing is like I had zero, you know, and this is very common with all camera guys. I was I've been a camera guy, I'm a director, producer, DP, right? That but I had zero knowledge of sound, and I would hire sound guys, I was like, I have no idea what they're providing me because we don't know the microphones, we don't know uh, you know, I'm saying any most people, and and as I sounds and sound is 50% of your video. So I personally spent extra effort on, you know, learning about sound, learning about, you know, skill that I zero interest in, being honest with you. I I couldn't care less. But by putting that extra effort and hundreds of hours into it, now A, not only am I an expert on that, I've been able to go help my friends and and be a sound guy on their thing. You know what I mean? And that came from putting in that effort and learning about it. And now it helps me on my sets where I'm not even doing sound. When I hire a sound guy, I can speak in their language, I can communicate better with them. So it made me a better producer director just because you know it it made me understand what they're going through and what they need to do. I hope that makes sense. So again, whatever you want to be, and doesn't mean you have to do sound. I'm saying whatever you want to be better, I just put in the effort, put in the time. If you don't know, surround yourself with people who do. When I'd be on set, I'd talk to the sound guys, I'd ask them the questions. That's how I learned, you know, it took a long time. And now that's an extra skill that I have that I can take with me. You know what I mean? Places. So uh we're towards the tail end, uh, Matt. We're about to end it. Anything else you want to touch on before we end?

Matthew Lopez 2:13:26

Anything I guess just in general, like we were just talking about, it's it's a mindset. It's a mindset that every filmmaker should have. If you really want to be in this game, you have to be willing to put in the effort, you have to be willing to like focus on your your goals. Like I said in the beginning, you have to not let the world tell you that you can't be a filmmaker. Because you can. You can. That is the first step. It really, that is the first step. If you don't, if you believe in yourself and you don't let the world tell you otherwise, then I think that's that's the main caveat here. And then you just focus on that, pursue it, don't stop it. Use use this video as a motivation. If you're telling yourself right now, all these idiots I can do better, then do better. Do better. Hire what's wrong. Yeah, yeah. But that's what I'm saying. Yeah, hire us or whatever. But prove prove prove us because that's that's I think that's the that's the what you need to grab out of this, is just start now. Start now. I think every filmmaker would agree with me on this point. That what makes you a filmmaker by making movies so or or shorts or commercials, whatever, but do something. Don't don't just don't be the don't be the consumer, be the the we be the creator who makes the consumers.

Vipul Bindra 2:14:34

Exactly. And eventually, like I said, the people you look up to not could work for you. I always tell people, look, uh, you know, either I hire you or you hire me. At the end of the day, look, uh, I I have zero um uh uh you know ill will towards anyone. I'm saying I want people like today our PA on free on my site eventually to be so much better than me that I am working on their site. You know what I mean? Like just put in the effort, do what you want to do, what makes you happy, be passionate about it. And like I've started this whole conversation with Matt. The only reason you and I work together so much in the just last eight, ten months, which hasn't been a long time, is because you bring a sense of passion and energy into the project, which I can tell whether there's money, uh, you know, uh, for example, just talking to the first commercial we did together, day one was volunteer, day two was paid, right? And and and your energy and your passion was the same both days, right? And and and simply speaking, that's all that matters. Don't go to set on for free if you're not gonna put that energy. The only reason now Matt's essentially a given on, especially my car shoots, uh, is because I need that energy and passion, right? Plus, let's not discount gear. You have the tools necessary for what I think is the right tool for the job. Now, yes, tomorrow they give me half a million dollars, but we will probably call the technocrane, not the Ronin 4D. But to be able to put on that camera arm, there's no other way we could move fast. Because we had the same struggle, the second commercial. We needed to get the same shots, but I learned from Dave when we cannot have crew on the ground, we cannot have crew on the uh you know arm, we cannot have aerial going at the same time. The only way we can do that is if we have this arm that we can change angles while we're driving, while we're on the road. And so to be able to secure the camera arm and then uh knowing which is the right tool, because you know, when I was hiring by the way, Mike, uh, he was like, Yeah, we can use the Ronin. I have that mount to put the Ronin too, and then we could put the thing, um, the Branano. I was like, No, we're gonna use uh the Ronin for it. He was like, Great, I have the mount for it. So he came and you know, we tested it if you remember. But point is, and that came so incredible. That was that is why we were able to get the shots we were able to get, because the the time we had available was still the same as the first commercial, yet our driving shots are so much better. It's because we had the right tools. So I'm saying I don't want to fully discount uh because there's no way you could have done that. I mean, if your time, obviously, if you spend one day on those shots, you can technically do them, I'm saying, from a chase car by mounting it. But we were able to do all that at the same time. And the only reason we were able to do that is because we had the arm. We were like, okay, we need a front shot, move the arm. Now we can step back. You know what I mean? Stuff that you couldn't do if you didn't have the Ronin 4D and you didn't have that arm. Simple as that. And the people who understood how to use that. Like, I don't know how to use that tilter arm. I almost thought about buying it because I have enough car work uh that I was like, okay. Then I was like, you know what? It doesn't matter because buying it doesn't mean we'll have the skill. Plus, I'm directing anyway, I can't operate it. And then might as well hire the operator who has the equipment. It makes no sense to buy it. And hence why we brought Mike in and he did amazing, obviously. And you did incredible, which is why you were operating the Ronin 4D, right? Because technically I could be like, hey, Ricky, you're the DP operator. No, it's like you are the expert, you're gonna operate the camera, he's the expert on the arm, while Ricky can help with framing, right? And I can direct with what I want. At the end day, that was the perfect team, and we got it done. Technically, if you think about it, it's just four of us. That's sure. We had other people blocking the traffic, doing other stuff, but I'm saying essentially four person and look what we were able to achieve. That play uh commercial went, you know, places and it got them a lot of sales, which is how they decide. You know, they don't care about camera, they don't care about lighting, they don't care about roan in 4D, they don't even know what we're using or what lenses we're using.

Matthew Lopez 2:18:06

You get them what they wanted and it's and you do it in a timely manner, then they they that's all they care.

Vipul Bindra 2:18:11

Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for coming. This has been an incredible conversation. And I know you and I could literally keep talking for hours. This could be a 10-hour podcast, and that's what happens, and that's what I'm saying. Uh I I love having you on set, and hopefully we'll get to collaborate more. I know we're about to do another project. Um, hopefully we can add video to it. So I'd love to bring you. But you know, that's the that's what I'm saying. Just be good at it, have the right attitude, be willing to work with people. Like that's what I love about you is like you're talented, you bring the good energy, but then you're also willing to work with me, you know. Like I say, you worked with me when I had no budget, you worked with me when I had decent budget. You know what I mean? Like, and being able to understand, being able to give you 100%, and uh that what makes you indispensable. Um, and and also being realistic, like, look, Matt's here. I can't bring you on every set because not every set requires your skills. But when it does, even if it's not my set, like talk about Sam's movie, I was like, I would want Matt there. You know, if you can I talk to Matt, I was like, I don't know his rate, you know, that's on you, you guys negotiate, but I would love to have Matt as my right-hand man. Simple as that, because what's your task you're giving me? Because the task was what, two days, right? And film this whole short film and and uh and do it right. I was like, but then I need people who are skilled with me. Simple as that. And not discounting, I'm saying the other people were on set, but the most of them were students or you know, who knew on filming. I'm like, we need skilled people to be on set. And then you being on set. I think it was you and me kind of taking charge on that one. And that's why we got it done. And and and that's what I'm saying is you get hired. It may not even be direct, you get recommended to, you know, I'm saying other sets. Um, so yeah, like I said, could love, would love to continue working with you, but thank you for coming and taking time out. This was an incredible first

Final Advice And Where To Find Matt

Vipul Bindra 2:19:51

episode. Uh, guys, keep out. Um, it's gonna be Thursdays, you know, 9 a.m. Eastern time. We're gonna post episodes um going forward. And and actually, what we're doing different this season is like last season I was shoot the whole season and then it would come out, you know, weekly. Now it's like, hey, we're gonna do these relevant. Like we're shooting now, it's coming out in a couple of days. So it's gonna be very relevant, very new. As in, unless I have somebody new to talk to, there's not gonna be an episode. But it makes it easy, it's gonna be actual relevant content, and we can talk about stuff happening. So I'm really excited. Like I said, I just want to do these conversations anyway. But if it helps even one other person out there, then why not? You know, or just entertainment, bro. I'd rather listen to this with driving than you know, music or whatever. I agree. Uh, but thank you, Matt. And uh please tell people before we go where they can find you, connect with you.

Matthew Lopez 2:20:36

Uh, yeah, so you can find me uh in Instagram. Uh the name is Matt X Film. That's my personal Instagram. I have my own production business. It's a small one. It's called Smilespace Studios. You can look me up there as well. And I have a built website. And uh, I guess, yeah, and if you want to call me, you uh feel free to call me in my uh phone number, 407-808-0942 for business. And uh let's see what else. Oh, let me give a shout out to my uh cousin. I have a cousin who's in Puerto Rico. If you ever in Puerto Rico need a uh film studio, you know, shoot thing, his name's PJ, PJ Gaffers. He's a cousin of mine. Um yeah, I have a lot of respect for that guy. He's a he's a great uh filmmaker and uh he's also a rental house. So two for two. So yeah, if you ever in Puerto Rico and you want to give him a shout out too, feel free.

Vipul Bindra 2:21:26

Awesome. Well, thank you, Matt, again, and thank you for watching, guys. I'll see you in the next one.