Season Finale Crew Reunion

Vipul Bindra 0:04

Welcome to the season finale of Studio B Sessions with me, Bindra. And this is this kind of feels like the Avengers Assembled version of it. So I'm really excited. But before we go to the guests, I want to bring Mario in on the producer table again, helping us make this happen. So thank you, Mario.

Mario Rangel 0:21

Hi guys, how are you? Nice to see you again.

Vipul Bindra 0:24

All right. So guests, favorites from season one and two, Adam, David, and Dalton. Welcome, guys.

David Morefield 0:33

You got four business owner schedules to line up.

Vipul Bindra 0:36

Exactly. I have no idea how this worked out. But we're here. Yeah. So how do you feel?

Dalton Smith 0:41

I feel good. I think it's a miracle we're all here. But yeah, man, this is incredible. We talked about for a while. Yeah.

Vipul Bindra 0:47

And then we kind of already had a podcast basically before this, because we were talking while we were trying to figure this out. So ignore if the quality sucks because this is just this wasn't set up for a four-person podcast. We're just throwing our Rode mics and just having a conversation.

Dalton Smith 1:02

Sure.

Vipul Bindra 1:03

Yeah. All right.

Adam Kalinowski 1:04

Between kids and families and traveling and projects. I don't understand how four of us got on here for now, but that's pretty sweet.

David Morefield 1:14

But you've been playing phone tag for months for a couple years.

Dalton Smith 1:18

None of it none of it's intentional either. And I think everybody knows that it's, I guess it's a good thing. But we were just discussing this morning. A lot of it for me is kind of realizing I kind of got to rewire some stuff. Because it shouldn't be that hard, you know? And at least for me, I'm realizing I just am at a cusp of redoing everything just because I can't do it like this any longer. And like anybody who's been around me or even tried to meet up with me, sees what it is, and it was intentional, but I just realized I got to change stuff up for coffee or for work or whatever.

Vipul Bindra 1:51

And and to be honest, uh, I still remember, remember on our podcast, because I told uh uh David, you that I was gonna have Dalton, and you were like, I'm surprised he got him. Yeah. So so I was like, oh well, that's good. And then we had to cut short the podcast because I had a client call. So I'm so glad you suggested this. So my plan was season two or season three to bring more people in. But this is, I think, the perfect way to send off. And I don't think I could have better people here.

David Morefield 2:17

Well, congrats to you, because you've done what season one, season two, season two now. Yes. And then this this is a lot to do just because you want to do it.

Vipul Bindra 2:26

Exactly.

David Morefield 2:27

This is a lot.

Vipul Bindra 2:28

Yeah, this is this is a especially like you said, just getting our schedules lined up. I've had to sacrifice my studio for what, three weeks now? Because the idea is to, you know, film and then break break down. And I couldn't, because I was like, this idea is incredible. I only had 19 episodes because I had one cancellation. So I was like, I need a 20th. So it's only 19. Exactly. I know, only 19. So I was like, this is perfect. And when Dalton said, and I was like, you know what? Let's do it. And I'm so glad we did, and like I said, all lined up. Uh could have done it in any other way. But also, it's because every single one of us has had incredible conversations with each other. So I can only imagine to put four of us in a room.

David Morefield 3:06

Yeah. There's so many good conversations, like, but it'll be like 20 minutes waiting for the flight when you have an open mind just for that sliver. Or like, you know, you're doing this, and then you have a couple minutes to talk with you, with you, with you. And and usually you're like, that was a really good conversation. Like, it's hard to fabricate that. But credit to you. Yeah. Because you got us together.

Marriage Changes And What Stays

Vipul Bindra 3:32

Thank you. And like I said, this is just a passion of mine. So I just want to do that. Which talk about, I know we were talking about this before, since our last episode, you are no longer a single man. I mean, you weren't single, but I guess you're a married man now.

David Morefield 3:47

Yeah, legally. Documentation says I'm married now. So yeah, it was a very quick engagement. It was like you were saying, you you like doing it fast. Normally I'm not doing it fast, but doing it fast, I was like, oh, this is actually nice. Like we can like move on to the next thing and the next thing.

Dalton Smith 4:02

So it was very David of you. Yeah. How the whole, the whole thing, the way that you told me slash didn't tell me until it happened, basically. But you told me like I think 12 hours before the Instagram post. And just like where you did it, how you did it, the whole thing. And it's funny because I've known you for longer than I've realized. I was doing some math the other day, and I was like, Yeah, man, me and my boy have known each other for 10 years, dude. It's like 16. So wow. Yeah, well, like watching how much we've grown and like, you know, just seeing who you become and the relationship that you're at, it's cool and it fits you, it suits you. And uh it's cool, like even your housing setup, the what the whole thing is so David. It was phenomenal. And like I told you, I've been to Gloucester. So I was like, why are you there? Like, that was where the perfect storm was themed. I was like, what are you doing there?

David Morefield 4:49

Yeah.

Dalton Smith 4:49

And didn't you just like go on an adventure and brought her there?

David Morefield 4:52

Yeah, she saw a castle on Love on the Spectrum. And then we went to the castle and then came back there and got married at the castle. So we got married at a like medieval style castle, and then I reiterate, so damn. And uh and credit to her because she she pushed for that. I was like, all right, castle. But then my space, I got uh Florida waters, springs, jungle, making little like bridge pathways through there, playing with mud. Like I really like trespassing. Trespassing on dude, on my in-law's property. Dude, I got caught. I thought I was on a trail going through a backyard, and this massive human, seven foot, easy comes in. He's like, Can I help you? And I was like, Um just I thought I was on a trail. I'm in your backyard right now. I'm sorry. A couple weeks go by later, it's his wife's uncle. Wow, it's her uncle.

Vipul Bindra 5:50

She answers that.

David Morefield 5:51

That's pretty deep.

Vipul Bindra 5:52

And you're just foraging in the man's backyard, short-lifted.

Dalton Smith 5:55

And he's like, What's up? He's like, looking for the springs.

Vipul Bindra 5:59

Yeah. I wonder if you had like a spreadsheet. Did you look at reviews of where like that I don't know how like you figured out is this the efficient way to get married?

David Morefield 6:09

Um no, it's just kind of it sounded fun.

Vipul Bindra 6:12

That's awesome. Well, I'm I'm just happy for you. I feel like, you know, that's the because now we're all married, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I guess. And wow. Yay! Yeah, boys. Look at that. So um, I want to talk to you. Like, do you think anything's gonna change?

David Morefield 6:29

Or I could ask you guys that. You you guys are a couple years ahead. I don't know.

Adam Kalinowski 6:33

Well, we don't want to spoil it.

Dalton Smith 6:34

Yeah, yeah, I guess. Do you think it's gonna change? And we'll tell you what has changed. Okay, okay, okay.

David Morefield 6:41

Um well, I think we're gonna stay just as as ourselves, our little unit, me and her for now. So um is that a kid thing? Yeah, is that okay, yeah. Oh wow. I think it's just gonna be us for the foreseeable future.

Dalton Smith 6:54

So love how you answered that.

David Morefield 6:55

Yeah, exactly. Some people are, you know, they truly conversation.

Dalton Smith 7:01

Maybe. Yeah, so yeah, yeah.

Working With Your Spouse And Family

David Morefield 7:03

So I I think we're just gonna keep it me and her for a while, keep traveling, keep uh we get to work together, which is nice, and we get to like still have all of our passions and and be able to explore some things that we want to do.

Vipul Bindra 7:17

So yeah, that's what where I have my opinion on. Like, you know, it sounds so awesome, and I guess it is awesome to work with your significant other, but I can't I can bring you a list of challenges, so I can't wait to talk to you in a year. Yeah, we should do this in like season four, and then I I I I can't. Oh, is she working like with you? She's a producer.

David Morefield 7:34

She's producer, yeah. She produces for my retainer client, and so she handles all scripting and prop purchases. That's very cool. And like, what are we doing next? Uh, we're doing script A2. Cool.

Dalton Smith 7:46

How smart are you guys? But like you said, I my mom currently works for me, and she's my mom, and no one's more patient with me, and we've still had you know things to figure out, and it's it's very difficult. And then me and my wife had a pretty serious conversation yesterday, and we kind of just came to this good understanding of what we want to change. And what I said to her was like, Can you imagine what it was like for my ex? Like, me and my ex had problems, like I was engaged, but I was like, dude, my business took up my whole life, you know? It really did. So you have to have that balance, especially if they're working with you.

Vipul Bindra 8:22

Yeah. Um because then you're it's the other thing, right? You're spending too much time, I guess, with each other, then you don't speed space. I mean, I guess go watch Julie's podcast episode. Uh I mean, but yeah, it's it's not the like I said, it's fun. Like I like it. I'd rather, because if I'm choosing someone, you know, I'd rather spend as much time as possible, right? That's what the relationship is. But then it you do have to traverse it. And you I'm I'm sure you're already experiencing that because as in you're already working together, right? You just got married, but yeah, you it's not like you weren't doing this. So you just have to, I guess, maneuver it in a way where you make sure that you take out time for each other. Work cannot be the personal time.

David Morefield 9:01

Yeah, I I think it's also like, you know, you she gets to see how I am at work, but you still have to overlap of how you treat the person as a crew member, but also like as someone you're in a relationship with. But it's interesting too, like just being friends with someone and then how you work with them. Because like when you're friends, you're just friends. But when you're in a business, there's like roles that some person has to do, and then some person has to do that, and you have to be um understanding of like you are friends, but like you are in a business structure right now, and we're all trying to make it to the end, but some people have different roles.

Adam Kalinowski 9:42

Exactly.

David Morefield 9:43

And you have to have accountability.

Adam Kalinowski 9:44

I've been on sets with you guys working together, and I feel like you guys do that pretty well with Giselle. Yeah, yeah. Like, Giselle, can you give me a new battery? Yeah, you know, like um my wife was on set with me. I probably wouldn't ask her to do anything. Just take to sit down, honey. Like, no problem. I got it. Like, I that's how I am at home. Like, I'll take care of it. Like, Giselle, can you give me coffee real quick?

David Morefield 10:04

When she's got a give me coffee.

Adam Kalinowski 10:06

So I was like, this is cool.

David Morefield 10:08

So yeah, but she's a PA.

Dalton Smith 10:09

You asked to do PA.

David Morefield 10:13

So I like that.

Dalton Smith 10:14

Well, and like you said, if it does work, super beautiful thing. Yeah. So my mom lives in Tennessee. My mom more or less raised me. And so when she moved, it was a big deal for us. I was the baby in the house, it was a big deal. So as she moved, my business was starting to take off. And my mom has literally helped me through the whole process, especially the back end. She worked for the IRS, so she had so much knowledge on how to navigate our finances. And I credit like the foundation that let us keep going to her. So yeah, um, having her work for me, did we talk 10 times a day? And even though it's a lot about work after or in between, and our conversations take forever because we're littering in other stuff, but it's such a cool thing, right?

David Morefield 10:53

Yeah, like kind of what you said. It's like you probably wouldn't call your mom 10 times a day, but it's nice you actually get to talk to your mom 10 times a day, even if it's uh mostly about work.

Dalton Smith 11:03

And one thing I added is I had this thing one day, I was just like, when was the last time I called her just to call her? So I I had called her like 30 minutes before and I called back, which isn't like weird, but she's like, hey, what's up? And I was like, How you doing? She's like, What? Forgot. Yeah, how you doing? She's like, Oh what oh, and so it was just nice, and you gotta throw that in there, you know.

Vipul Bindra 11:25

Yeah, and to me, family's everything. So being able to spend time more with your family, and I know you and I, Adam, talked a lot about on our episode about this. Like, to me, you know, we work a lot. Like, that's the common thing between between all of us is we're business owners, so that means we spend a lot of time doing what we love, but it takes away from time. So if you can find any way to bring family back into it, it's awesome. Uh Mario, you were on that shoot. So Julie was on set after a long time on that shoot with the car company that happened after all the podcasts were recorded. Did you notice any tension or anything on set? You remember that day? On the podcast.

Mario Rangel 12:03

I'm talking about the interview day uh that we did. Oh well. On the podcast, I I did. And on the shoot day. I mean, you want me to be real? Yes.

Dalton Smith 12:15

There you go.

Mario Rangel 12:16

I I did still. At the end, I think you I mean, I sense some tension, but you also work good together because she's really like she's really direct with the client, but she can handle the client really well. Um and she knows what she's doing. Like she handles the script, right? The interview, like the interview, she knows what to ask. So I think you do a really good job together for sure.

Vipul Bindra 12:39

Awesome. Well, there you go. There's the reality of it, right?

Adam Kalinowski 12:41

Well, I remember being on that one live production in Vegas with you guys, and she was doing graphics and producing the back. Yeah, yeah. I was like, ah, shit, that's cool how that works. Like exactly. You guys just partner up on that, and she knows her family. She's obviously very like knowledgeable on that. She's been in that. That's just cool to see that work.

Vipul Bindra 13:00

Yeah, exactly. And like I said, anytime you can't. So uh so that's really awesome that you've been able to bring her into it and and spend more time, I guess, and and grow your business together. Because like I said, the way I look at it, I'd rather pay my family first than some strangers. Yeah.

Adam Kalinowski 13:15

I like the idea of a family business, you know?

Vipul Bindra 13:17

Yeah.

Adam Kalinowski 13:17

Getting the getting everybody involved. Get my son involved at some point. Yeah.

Vipul Bindra 13:22

Adults will give me the idea. Let me talk to my mom after. Yeah, right.

David Morefield 13:27

So for for family business topic, um, you know, uh traditionally a lot of people for the family business pass it down. I think a video production business is a little different because it's so tied into the client knowing you. Um and also it's probably not gonna be a generational thing. But do you guys see like that type of longevity in the business? Because I don't. I I don't see that.

Vipul Bindra 13:52

No, that was a nightmare for me to navigate. So initially, when I started the company, you know, I had been managing a business or whatever. So I basically didn't want to be the front guy, right? I wanted to talk to clients about video and gear, you know, like the exciting stuff. So I put Julie as like the president of the company. So for years, she was the face of the company, right? She was meeting all the people and going to these events and these chambers and wherever, right? And so it was so strange when she took a step back because she wasn't passionate about this, right? She doesn't like video production like I do. So she was like, I'm not enjoying this, so I don't want to do this. And I was like, that's fair. And I do enjoy it, so I should be the one going out there. But it was so strange. So I'm meeting people who are like, Where are you? Like, and then I say, Oh, I'm with Bindra, and they're like, Oh, we know Bindra, where's Julie? Right? So it's like it's it was so hard to navigate the first 12 months of that, where I was like, Oh, like, you know, I should have been doing this way more because now I'm like in contact with all these networks and people and stuff. But but like I said, the initially it was really strange to me. And now I think we found the roles where you know I am front-facing, it's like I said, I'm meeting the clients from beginning to end. And it works best because they are not having a switch. Because in the beginning there was like beating Julie, Julie until contract sign, and then all of a sudden, oh, who's this guy, right? So now I think it's consistent, it works best for us where she handles posts, I handle production. So it's good on both ends. But so I guess we figured out where we fit best, but it did take a while to get there.

Breaking Into ESPN And Top Rank

Dalton Smith 15:19

But like longevity, like my brand is like the opposite of what you want. I'm like trying, like I'm I'm it's me. Yeah, it's me. But it's becoming less of that. And like our relationship with ESPN is a big representation of that. Because when they brought me in, they brought Dalton Smith in. And they thought you were. And they thought I was the only thing. They didn't really care or know about NPI, which was kind of backwards of what we were used to. And them broadening up and being like, we just trust the source. Yeah. So, and I haven't even told anybody, I'll tell them we'll talk a little more about it later. But right now, Trevor's working for ESPN for me as a utility. So they asked me last week, I went to Manhattan, it was the last fight. It's kind of a bad, bad weekend for me because it's been a substantial part of my business for three years, and that's it. Well, during the weekend, my lead comes up to me. She's like, I want Trevor next week in Ohio as a utility. And there's a lot of stuff going on that they're working on, but they wanted to get our toe in. So just funneling that in, you know what I mean? It's making it less about me and more about our brand being a reliable source. So she straight up asked me, can we be a funnel for like qualified utilities? Because usually utilities are local, but she's talking about people that can assist with a kit, right? Dude. So I was like, Trevor, you're not even there for you to become this person. You're literally there to prove for her to prove to whoever she's talking to that we can be this funnel. So for me, I am trying to disassociate myself and I'm making me my own little micro brand, not to grow it, but to separate it. So, like if you want me to get on camera and look like Spicoli and have fun and stuff, that's more tied in with like my influencery stuff, whatever you want to call it. But I was tired of them getting baked together. And I had friends be like, dude, you're just robbing yourself blind for like your just free talent and every and it's all you. And I was like, so yeah, you know, it's a combination of things. But if I ever were to get to that point, I think it'd be because the agency is a trusted source for certain kinds of work.

David Morefield 17:17

And and to give context, you were the contractor to operate the gimbal camera, figure it out for top rank boxing, which was under ESPN for a few years.

Dalton Smith 17:30

Yeah, so I'll give you guys the true short version. They have a problem, they find me through some weird way, they call me, they say, come solve the problem, Dalton. Immediately I throw a curve in them. I'm like, I don't really travel alone. I want to bring my bro. I want to bring my friend JD, but you don't have to pay him. And they were like, and I was like, we'll stay in the same hotel room, whatever. So they they let JD come. Immediately they realize we know how to fix it, and they see that we kind of have to have two people for multiple reasons, including help. What if I can't go the whole night? Whatever. My wife's mega pregnant. So I go to this first one and cool, exciting, yay. A week later, I'm at Lowe's. My phone rings, and I didn't know her name. So I saved her on my phone as ESPN. Madison looks down and sees ESPN. Dude, immediately she's like, just because she's so pregnant, dude. It's like eight months. They ain't calling to say what's up. I overheard there was a fight in Manhattan. And what's funny is like on that set, they say next week, even if the fight's three weeks away. So I'm like, man, JD, they're talking about another fight in Manhattan. That's crazy. Can you imagine? Can you go to Manhattan in five days? So I go and I was like, I can't say anything yet. But if they call me again, so that third fight, I'm talking like four weeks in, I was like, hey, I gotta have a serious conversation with you. My wife's pregnant. I've got a bail for like three months. And she was like, Okay. I can't just slide your friends in. You have to become a vendor. And it was like a big gray area. So God, maybe it was during the second fight. It was during the second fight. I was like, I gotta tell them. She's like, you gotta shake this one hand, and it's gonna be a very short conversation. And to this day, I understand now. He's like, I think he's the COO of top rank. And so shook his hand, and whatever the heck I did right or she said, lined it up, right? And then we became a vendor, and I could say, David's coming, Adam's coming. They knew there was kind of growing phases with each person. They were cool with that. They even let me bring three people on a couple so we could like execute and train and uh door shut. But the way I'm describing it is it was one pie that had two entities, top rank for promotion, ESPN for broadcast. ESPN hired me and they were representing top rank's package, but ESPN was the the production company. Top rank really liked what they saw. So in an effort to make the weigh-in better, they decided to add more cameras. It's kind of interesting. ESPN operates the whole fight night. Top rank can't really sing much. The weigh-in was given to top rank kind of as a gift, like you know, run it yourself. They weren't running it that great. And then ESPN was getting a lot of pressure because people were like, this looks like crap. So ESPN says, well, maybe let's work together. It's a long story, but some of the people from the ESPN side kind of got merged into the top rank side. And they knew how to lead very well because they do ESPN. Way in got so good. Like, and they were like, we want Shark, which is us. So we don't just do it, we crush it. Well, guess what? Top rank had to pay that check. That was the deal. So now we're getting two checks. And then they liked it, and they added us a second day. We did the press conference, and then they added a second camera to the fight night. So during fight night, Emmanuel, he's working for top rank. I'm working for ESPN, and Trevor is working with ESPN. So they haven't re-signed. Top rank has fights for years, they're not going here, they're running for 50 years. So, and I can start telling people this. I don't know, I really don't care. I got the call. I got a call from the next production company. They're one of the few trying to bid. And it doesn't sound like they're gonna go with one company like ESPN. They're gonna partner with like three and they're gonna have like tiers. It's pretty detailed, but they handed our phone number over. The last fight we did before the last fight, so second to last, they had the main meeting, and they're like, I hate to tell you guys, but we're not signing the contract. I'm sure you know it by now. But everybody leaves and they were like, vendor meeting right now. So we come over and there's like less than I thought. It's like five people. It's like us, jib, robocams, trucks, comms. And they're like, Top rank wants to know if you guys are willing to work with them. Yep. And everybody had that response. So we just gotta wait and see how it falls into place. But like I emailed him yesterday and and they're just they're figuring it out. Like the last fight just happened. So they kind of separated. Well, guess what? ESPN just drove Trevor up to Canton. And he's doing the Pat McAfee show and the ESPN football NFL Hall of Fame abduction this weekend. And he's just dropping cable, but he got our little foot in there to where they Get a shark in. So yeah, the point is like a crazy evolution. She found me from Facebook from a hurricane video, completely unrelated. So even getting in there was a miracle. But what I've learned is like once you're kind of in that pond, you're good. Like you can get other work.

Vipul Bindra 22:16

No, that's incredible that you were able to carve yourself in, and now you have opportunities to go both ways. Because nothing stops you from connecting, you know, uh increasing your connections over at ESPN because there's so many more sports, there's so many more avenues for you to plug NPI in, right?

Dalton Smith 22:32

Non-selfishly, the contact I have harbored me very closely and basically said, you're gonna swim in this pond for now. And there's a lot of reasons, and we didn't know what the heck we were doing, a lot of learning, so we were cool with that. Well, now we're at this point where there's kind of no choice, and she's very open and optimistic and assisting with this transition, but also seeing my needs that I'm saying, look, I need to scale this. Like, you know, for some of my personal needs to be able to like, I need to step away, but then make more money. So I need to figure out how to get more of these sharks on different packages. And so that's kind of where we're at. And I've got a great execution plan, but there's just way too many things that are possibilities in our little bubble that I don't even want to kind of look yet, you know, just until I see how all these other things fall into place. Because like ESPNs will exclude ESPN in the boxing, it was 25 fights a year. Like 25 to 30. Like that was a lot of our healing. That was a lot. So if we're doing even two different packages, that's a that's a big thing. So yeah, that's the goal is to do more of those and less of some of the other stuff we're doing.

Adam Kalinowski 23:34

That's cool. Once you get that advocate on the inside, it's it's great to be able to talk to them about those things, like how you want to grow and be honest with them and get some like honest help. That's cool.

Dalton Smith 23:48

What and the the so the person that founded me is the one that told this other production company to call me. And she sung our praises. Perfect. And then the director, Aladdin, sung our praises. And so those two people are really the ones that you need. And until they die, they're gonna vouch for us.

David Morefield 24:08

Yeah, and having someone on the inside, that's kind of what you were focusing on recently, right? With with one of your clients who has who has um businesses all around the US, you were talking to the VP of marketing, because if you can get his approval, yeah, he can just kind of spread your work throughout all of these branches.

Adam Kalinowski 24:30

Yeah, that's exactly the same thing. Just getting that one little in and making a fan of them and then letting them disperse that.

David Morefield 24:38

But like kind of in the handshake that you had, that whatever one-minute conversation, and then and then talking to this guy, like you can't be too much. You can't be like, I can do everything.

Adam Kalinowski 24:48

Yeah, you can't be overbearing.

David Morefield 24:50

What else can I do for you right now? Yeah, yeah. How can I get more of your budget? It takes time. Yeah.

Client Experience Versus Scope Creep

Adam Kalinowski 24:55

Yeah. Well, this this client particularly told me for the first three or four months of this year, there's no money. We got nothing this year. Business is down, like, we're not gonna spend this year. And here they are, and now they've spent more with me than they did last year. I'm like, hmm, okay, interesting. Yeah, it takes it takes time and patience for those things to pan out. And I've done a couple things for them, just like um, like a a webinar, for example, um, to get in front of them more, but completely on my own time, own effort, and just staying in front of them and letting that time pan out, being patient with it, and that's it's now come back. You know, if you can be patient with it and put that that effort in it.

Vipul Bindra 25:36

I think that's what it's about, right? Just relationships. Where whatever industry that you're trying to build, and I know this could apply to any business, but talking in video production in general, it's just who you know. Because a lot of people go, like, how do I get this gig? And it's usually I know this, who knew this, who know this. It's just the chain of people that led to you.

Dalton Smith 25:56

So ultimately, but you only get brought up when you when you're relevant, you do good work. Yes. So as much as people could be like, oh well, you know, of course, of course he's doing that. They they recommended him. It's like, well, dude, like the the source of finding that person is gonna have to come from you doing work before they found you. Exactly.

Vipul Bindra 26:12

That's why I'm like so, so incredibly focused on client experience. Because uh, you know, at the end day, like you said, you do good work, you treat them right, they will remember you, and then they'll either plug you back into other businesses or they'll refer you. So, like, for example, I'm working with a client right now and we give one free revision, right? I'm on V4. You know, normally I don't do that. But I'm like, this client has been good to me, so I'm gonna be good to them. And it's just one off where we can go to V.

David Morefield 26:42

That's actually an interesting point because there's a lot of times where I set up structures so that everything can move smoothly. It's not, it's not to like punish anyone. It's like, hey, if we kind of swim down the river this way, like we'll get there very efficiently. And so I want to stick to those rules, whether it's um deposit needs to be paid by the state, or whether it's you sign up for two cameras, not eight, you know. It's just everything's talked about, discussed, and agreed upon, but I have seen so many times where people go outside, they bend the rules, and it works out for them because they're providing the experience part. And I I think one time with you, uh the scope had already been discussed. We were on site, and the person was like, hey, we want to also do this. And I think it was more time or just more effort than what had been agreed upon. And um, and then you came back after and said, Hey, um, you know, we had an extra request that you had. Um we if you if you can find more room in the budget to accommodate that extra work we did, that would be nice. Just just kind of putting it out there, not saying like you have to pay us this much extra because we did this much outside of scope. You just kind of put it on the relationship side and said, hey, we we were there for you when you overreached. Yeah, if you want to return the favor, one will either get compensated or two, I'll see how you operate and we might not be available next time. You know what I mean?

Adam Kalinowski 28:20

Like exactly.

David Morefield 28:20

And it's just so weird to go outside of those those lanes that you created willingly.

Vipul Bindra 28:25

And and to be honest, this is the the balancing app, which is what makes separates a business owner a successful one from an unsuccessful one. Because there is cost to doing business. For example, like the example I just gave, like we're on V4, there is cost. I've had two, three extra editing days that cost me money. But I'm willing to do that because I can look at the the numbers and I can be like, oh, this is what I brought in with this client. Here they didn't ask for any revisions, so I can offset the cost here that hey, we did two projects for them six months ago, there was no revisions, so it makes sense. They're a long-term client. Now I've had the other way where I was recently contracted to do lighting on a movie, right? And then I was like excited, I was like, absolutely. And then now it's like, oh, can we bring in some cameras and lenses gear? And then that's where I go, no, hey, yeah, absolutely, but that'd be an additional rental charge, right? Because that's outside the scope. Like, that's not me giving a better client experience, that's just straight up more rental. So we have to go, you know. Yeah. Uh so it's kind of like I think a balancing ad.

Dalton Smith 29:28

And that's in my relationship, that little bit of risk, you gotta be careful. I'm not careful, and I need to be more careful. Like, I'm good at at determining when they're a good relationship, but I tend to take way too much risk on the first ones because I'm trying to get like really make an impression and get this relationship off the ground. And I give people so much wivel room, and then I just don't even charge enough. And it's funny, you I I hate to say this, but biggest tip I could say is like be kind, be fair, respect relationships, but treat it like a straight up business until that is proven. Treat it like you would treat your spouse, you know? Like be nice, be kind, give them a chance, go on dates. But like, I was just so quick to give them the keys to like just kind of whatever they wanted, right? Breaking the rules and uh looking back, I'm like, God, man, how much did I take from myself? You know?

David Morefield 30:16

Well, you have clients who overreach in like uh not a mean way, and then you have clients who overreach in a mean way. And like they're both overreaching, but one of them is like, yeah, it was just it was just an aberration. Like, yeah, we don't expect you to do that the the every single time now. But the other client is like, well, you did last time, and so now we're gonna push a little bit more. So let's and that's where you have to push back, right?

Handling Red Flags And Overtime Pushback

Vipul Bindra 30:39

Right, yeah, because like you said, uh I and that's why I am at least so let me clarify, I'm all about relationship once it's built. Because uh when it's new, I am like not like giving that much leave. It's the opposite. So when I meet someone, I'm usually like, this is the scope, this is what we're gonna do. Yeah, but now I'm two, three projects in, we built that relationship. That's when I start to go above and beyond and do new things. Because uh, in my opinion, keeping clients is far more important than getting new clients. So whenever I get a new client, I tread carefully. Uh because, you know, like I said, you don't know what type of client they're gonna be like, talk about you guys' project. I know uh I I was I happened to be on uh uh forcefully had to listen to one of your guys' pre-production calls, and after starting the next, I literally it cost me money. So that's so so I was uh on the job with them. So you know, um they were he he had to get on a pre-production call. I get it. Like we I had to do it on, you know, even your podcast was here. Anyway, so I'm listening. After 10 minutes, I'm like, okay, I gotta go inside. So I went into the we parked into like a Walmart parking lot. I literally went and bought lottery tickets because I was bored 30 minutes from scratching, and I was still like, come on, this is so bad. Talk about that call.

David Morefield 31:50

That one, um that's a client who who overreaches to see how far they can reach. And I haven't dealt with that in so long. I've had so many good clients who are it's such a good mutual relationship where like maybe they overreach and then they're very appreciative of it, and they're just like, put it on the invoice. I don't care how much. Oh, okay. So so we can like we can provide more of of the goal-oriented structures here rather than the line item-oriented structures here. Oh, great, I love that. You don't you're not gonna care about an extra $500 on the invoice. Um, but this was just uh another client who from the beginning just seemed like red flag after red flag after red flag. And I had time to to take on the project, but um when we when we did finish, uh there was a lot of small overreaching and just just a lot of uh like why are you making this why are you trying to squeeze everything out of us? You know?

Vipul Bindra 32:50

Yeah. Um and it's one thing to ask politely, like they can, you know, because I was on the call, or not on the call, but you know there. But I was like, it's one way to be like, hey guys, we we really need X, Y, and Z. How can we provide it? What is it gonna be cost? Simple question. I'm sure either one of you could have handled it. But instead going, what are you bringing? Give us the list of your gear, what monitor are you gonna have? Is it gonna be seven inches or ten? Yeah, but that's too specific to matter, because you know what I mean? Like, yeah, and I was like, this is an irrelevant conversation because it should be like, hey, we need this, this, this, right? Give us the cost, and if it's adding to the scope, what's the cost going to be?

David Morefield 33:28

But yeah, yeah, maybe and so the way that project wrapped up is we we did great execution, bit my tongue a few times, but probably didn't have a smile on my face. But you didn't can confirm. Yeah, but bit my tongue, just provided whatever was requested, and we knocked it out of the park. We everything was satisfactory, all expectations were met, and then um the as the invoice was sent, they came back and were like, hey, I know we had agreed on time and a half for overtime, which they had already worked me down from I was gonna do uh 2x the rate for overtime, and they brought it down to time and a half. I was like, that's fine. We we can work with that. I'm not gonna lose this project over that. And um, they're like, Well, so we see you added the overtime in, but that was on the 12-hour day, where in the middle there was four hours where you guys really weren't doing too much. So we were wondering if you could kind of count that as non-working hours, and then that would bring you back inside uh the 10-hour window. And I'm like, I talked to you, and I was like, this is ridiculous. Yeah. And I was gonna go into a detailed response of like, hey, we showed up at this time, we left at this time. You're saying these middle hours weren't um like effort producing, we're still there. And I was and I talked to you.

Adam Kalinowski 34:56

That's when I said that's that's time away from home, from family, from other work. Like, I wasn't sitting there enjoying myself on vacation.

David Morefield 35:05

So um, and I and I really like what you said because my answer just came out. I think you can appreciate sometimes we like to talk and talk and give bullet points and give reasons, and this is why I'm right. And I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go the other way. And so I said, um I swear I knew I swear I grew up. So I said, instead of going details, I'm gonna go the other way. And I'll all I said was, um, I like to uh stick to the contract that we signed. Like no other explanation. Because what other explanation is there? That's the contract you signed, that's the contract I signed. And they said, okay. I'm like, man, you guys were just reaching. Yo, and you know that's the right way to approach that. That's on purpose. Yes.

Dalton Smith 35:54

That's like malicious intentional to test you.

David Morefield 35:58

$300 worth of overtime on a on a budget that was between 10 and 20, like kind of like semi-blown up a couple.

Dalton Smith 36:06

I'm definitely different. I'm definitely different. And the way, and this is the way I look at it. I treat everyone with respect, but there's been a few situations where I'm like, if I'm gonna own a business and work this hard and you're gonna treat me this way, I'm gonna respond however I see fit. And if you don't like it and your friends don't like it, and other people don't like it, then I might not be for you. So I've had a couple where I guarantee you they went home and they're like, that guy's gotta be crazy to talk to a client like that. You're not gonna call me either way. And frankly, I don't want to work with anyone you know. Now, that I'm talking to Basque of like two or three cases in my career. One of them was that company. Well, not because the relationship, because I don't want to harm them further. There's no point, right? But nationwide mega brand, one of the leaders in that category of product. The whole lead up was rush, rush, rush. We found you, we want you. We're coming to Florida from California and we want to do this production right away. And then they weren't providing details and they were the things that are like they wanted talent and make like they were holding. I'm like, guys, now the date's been pushed. You're like, you have to do these things. I'm at ESPN, I'm early, maybe three months in. I'm mega frustrated. It's a production setup day, it's like 10 hours. So I'm like under the scaffolding on the phone with my mom, office manager. I'm like, look, if they don't do blank and pay, we literally, for the first time ever, we're gonna actually hit someone with like a 20% increase. If they want that to happen under what's on, so I was like so nervous, and I it's just literally might as well have said F around and find out fee, because that's what it was. 20% of like a $10 or $11,000 contract. They pay it no apologies. They knew. They knew. And so I go to my lead, and it's funny because the the people I work with, I have a great relationship with ESP, and I felt comfortable explaining my frustrations. I was like, like, you're all right, but I'm like, I'm good, but I'm I'm in the situation, I don't know what to do. And they're like, well, explain it to me. So I explained, like, so you charge them. And I'm like, yeah, I know, but like, no, no, no, you you charge them, doll, and you treat it like a business. You stop trying to play patty cake and be friends with these people. You I don't care how cool it is, and that they're that brand that suits so well. Look at what so this is the lead there. And they're like, let me tell you a story about last week. You see those big printouts of the fighter? Like, yeah, like we do them for every fight. Well, we messed up and we didn't order them a ton. And they warned us. They hit us with like a 5x fee. My boss is gonna be pissed. It's happened before. But guess who's gonna get their money? Them, no matter what. So, yeah, hearing it from my client telling me to stack up to my own client, I was like, yeah. So truly, man, I've learned that I have to be approachable with certain responses. But that particular one, it led up to all this stuff, right? Where I freaked out was when they had hired my wife and child as talent and then left them hanging with an infant in the summer heat like this, and had them sitting at a table and weren't paying attention to breastfeeding or napping or anything, and their blatant disrespect, 90 minutes late on set, and the way that they responded and tried to point my finger, I was like, listen, y'all are not gonna like this. And uh yeah, man, like I I appreciate that it might not be for everybody, but straight up, the way I run my business is how I run my life. I'm very passionate. I'm becoming more in control of my uh emotions, but I forever stand on the fact that unless there are bodies on the ground, if this is my business and you mistreat me, it is my ability to respond how I want. So, you know, I reflect on that one a lot. I think about it a lot, but I have no regret from anything that happened. It was all pretty, pretty professional. But people will be like, well, why care? Why explain yourself? I'm like, because I'm a passionate person. And to the people that continue to hire me, I do good work, but they love to work with me. I have my own clients that follow me on my Wild West Facebook where I have all my tip of the days and I tell these stories and I kind of let all of this stuff flow. My own clients will go on there and support me because they understand that I'm a human too. I got a family. I'm allowed to want to want things. Yeah. And I've painted myself in a weird way where myself and business have been very intertwined. And that's why I'm still letting people know I'm FBI, but I'm separating that voice, you know. But yeah, man, I don't know. Stuff gets me fired up because we should be treated right, you know, especially what happens.

Adam Kalinowski 40:33

Yeah, when you are treated right by most of your clients, and then that one comes along and you're like, wait a second, I don't have to deal with this stuff. But I get treated by everybody else like fairly nicely, paid on time, paid right, paid valued, everything. And then, you know, I don't I don't want to be nickel and dimed by you, and like I don't have to put up with this, you know?

Vipul Bindra 40:51

I think that was the biggest, and tell me, I would like you guys to add the biggest change in my business, because initially, you know, you're like hunting for clients, right? You're like, I just want clients, I want this, but the the ability to pick and choose, the ability to say no, like once you work with someone, like you said, then you you fire them, essentially they call next time they're like, no, we're not available or whatever. And as soon as I was able to pick the jobs that I wanted to do, it just completely changed everything for me because you don't have to take it. You don't, that's the advantage of business. You get to choose who you work with, um, who you create content with or for. And if they're not the right fit, they're not the right way, I'd rather not. And then the financial ability to do that, funny enough, made me way more money than the ability to like, no, I need every client. Because as soon as I could say no, I feel like the business boomed. Because even though I may have been doing fewer jobs, I was doing bigger and better things because those people appreciate us.

David Morefield 41:47

It's scary in when you are transitioning between, um, I do need this money, but this guy, this relationship is not worth this money. It's scary when someone's like, I'm gonna hand you money and you're gonna hate it. And you have to you have to go, oh, do I want to do this again? Yeah, you're like, I don't. And then when you can say no, I uh I'm busy, or you just say no. Yeah.

Adam Kalinowski 42:12

Or you hit him with the uh the pain in the ass rate. It's like, okay, well it's gonna be five grand a bit higher, though. Yeah, yeah.

Dalton Smith 42:19

And then you gifted like, I should have been doing this the whole time. And I had a guy recently, and frankly, I told the guy straight up, dude. I don't know if I called you for advice or not. It would they wanted to shoot supercars out of a helicopter on 12 hours notice over Candy Space Center. I was like, dude, you're gonna pay like a decent rate. And like he even told me I was crazy. And I was like, bro, I'm leaving for my birthday trip that night. That was my window of like sacredness. Like, I'm coming, I'm your guy. You want me to handheld a 70 to 200 out of a helicopter? Find someone else that's gonna do that for you for video. For video. I was like, and he paid it. And uh, you know, he wasn't gonna call me back regardless. He was from the UK, they were here shooting some big TV show, and I'm sure it messed their budget up, but they didn't get their guy in time. That's why I'm gonna pay for that. And I've always been the guy to pay for their mistakes. Their photographer didn't get his visa, he didn't make it. So what? I'm supposed to eat it. And like, then they talk about, oh, but you're on the air for this much time. I don't care, dude. I have to sit in the helipad for six hours. And uh, yeah, man, it was really, it was really the one of the first times. And when I'm put in a box where I'm truly unavailable or I don't necessarily care if I get it or not, or whatever, whatever gives me the confidence to charge the right amount, damn it, if I don't usually get it. You know? Like, and it bothers me because I'm like, well, where can I where can I find that confidence in the right places in normal situations?

David Morefield 43:49

It's the justification part because like I've had jobs where I I am gonna say, okay, I need this guy, I need this guy, I need this guy. And they all said their rate was this, this, and this. So I can't charge less than that because they're not going to show up. So I'm forced to at least have a foundational price. And then sometimes I'm like, oh, hey, if they're charging that much, I should be at least making two to three times. I'm the one who's putting this whole thing together. And so like it's nice because sometimes the the price is justified for you. Whereas if I was making the budget from scratch, I'd be like, okay, I could do this. I could, I could do it. I would be okay for that. I would be okay. And it's like, dude, to this day, that's what I do. I'd be stoked on this. I would be stoked on that.

Vipul Bindra 44:35

It is so true though. If you charge them the right money, you like I noticed that myself very recently because I was like, I have clients, and I already kind of go above and beyond, but where I was like, I had a client call me, like, I'm talking 2 a.m. in the morning, and I literally picked up and I was talking to them, and I was so excited about it. And then when I hung up and I'm like, why'd they do that? And I was like, oh, well, they paid me $100,000. They have the right to call me at 2 a.m. And I wasn't unhappy about it. I was like, if somebody else called me at 2 a.m., I'll be like, uh, no, thank you. So I think it it also depends on that. I have noticed that where the, you know, if they're paying me a day rave, you're not calling me at 2 a.m.

Adam Kalinowski 45:12

Because my call window availability with you. None. Because you're always calling me. Actually, I'll take this cut off.

Vipul Bindra 45:18

I actually do like working with you like on a serious note. The main reason is because he's to be real and and I'm being honest, you're adding to my map. So my my goal is to work in all 50 states. But my calls usually come from, you know, the main ones. You know, I'm going to California, or I'm going to Illinois, I'm going to Florida, Georgia, whatever, you know, the common ones. So when you call, usually it's something weird. It's like, you want to go to Arkansas? You want to go to where where did we go uh recently? Missouri. Missouri?

David Morefield 45:47

So that was me with Dalton. Dalton was like, Do you want to film this top ranked boxing thing? We're going to go to Shawnee, Oklahoma. And I was like, I couldn't point that out on a map. I have no Native American reservation, middle of nowhere, different laws, like really cool experience, but my jobs would not have taken me there. I always get the weird stuff.

Burnout Signals And A Full Rebuild

Freelancer Vs Owner Thinking On Set

Dalton Smith 46:08

Like I remember I got a flashback photo the other day. I say yes to everything, and we were kind of talking about this morning. I've got to change it now, but I don't regret it getting me here. I had no formal training. I had no money. I didn't know anybody. I was essentially a felon at the time. I was still on probation. I didn't have the setup everybody else had. So literally figuring it out was the only option. So I became the ambassador. I became the producer. I became everything. I made my own YouTube channel. I used stunts. I used, I literally went to Surf Expo and utilized me as I will film it and be in it. Okay. I may not be a pro surfer, but look at this value. And I utilized that. And I ended up in Lincoln, Nebraska. And I've got this photo. It's insane. I'm like 21 or 22. I've got like a little bit shorter hair, got the baby face. I'm with Tristan Larrave, and we've got this lineup of electric skateboards, and we're at a Hobby Town USA national convention. And guy probably pay, you know, pay us $2,500 for the weekend. We came out, we filmed stuff, but we were like literally stunting. We were writing the hoverboards, doing like expos like on stages. I'm doing, I'm fucking doing handstands on a hoverboard in Lincoln, Nebraska, getting paid to do it. And so I spoke with someone yesterday. I don't think any of you know him, Che. I don't know, he's another filmmaker. And he called me because he was worried about me because I posted on Facebook and I was kind of having one of my event sessions. He called me, he's like, yo, you all right? He's like, can I help you? I love that about him. And I was like, I'm okay, but I explained, I explained my situation. He's like, don't take this offensively, but maybe like you're running your business wrong. And like, and I was, well, basically what he sees is that maybe you're not charging enough. I was like, well, let me reiterate that to you. The issues that I'm explaining to you might look that I'm not charging enough. I'm just shoving it in my pocket. Because the way that I've done this is the way y'all would structure it, where you say this person, I don't do that. I say, I can do that. I don't care how many hours it takes, I don't care how suicidal it is, I take the whole pie. It's the only way I've been able to get this far. And then we've evolved to where it doesn't have to be like that, but I never let that go. I never let that go. And I still continue to say, I will do if if I physically can without dying, I do. And it's really started to take a toll. And it's really starting to become a problem. So literally yesterday I looked at my wife and I was really upset. And I said, she she looked at me, she's like, Don't I think you should get rid of the ducks and chickens? And I was like, Maddie, I'm not doing that. I was like, I just worked so hard. And she's like, You're so stressed, you're miserable. And I'm like, let me explain to you what I've just realized. You think that the ducks and chickens are the problem because it's something I stress about a lot, right? We just had a couple animals die from the heat. And I was like, here's my realization. A couple weeks ago, you wanted to talk about how I should maybe spend a little bit more time with Kaya, you know. Before that, it was like, I need to relax and not be so upset when me and you were arguing. I need to eat better. I was like, Do you notice a pattern here? Something is going to shit every day. And it's one of the different categories, and I cannot do them all. The culprit is that I'm running my business wrong. And I am single-handedly failing or succeeding. And yes, we've done some great things. I've learned a lot. We've built a successful business that has some, but I still haven't built the systems. I still haven't brought in the people. So I literally caved. And I've gotten close to this. I've touched and goad. I've kind of gotten in there and hired a couple of people, and then I do the same thing. I decide, like, oh, I could. And I get comfortable. It's funny because I do the opposite of other comfortable people. Comfortable chill. I get comfortable like more. And dude, just I my kids getting older. Like I looked in the other day and like it's just scary. And I'm I'm not running out of time, but we're all running out of time, you know? So if not now, then when? And so yeah, I've made this huge decision that right now, for the rest of this year, I've got to make change and everything's falling apart. ESPN top rank, no more. One of my legacy clients that did all the aviation work, everybody left and the team I'm working with, I can already tell I'll get a couple more drops. That's it. I can just tell. One of my other legacy clients in the action sports realm that I've worked with for since the beginning, we're not going past this year because I'm not doing this get paid pennies thing anymore. Dude, I'm starting over. I just hired a girl to redo my whole website, my whole kit, my whole look, everything. We're gonna be us. But this whole Dalton party, it's over.

Vipul Bindra 50:28

So you know, that's the difference between a business owner and a freelancer mindset. Yes. Because I think a freelancer goes, gig, done, you know, maybe efficiencies around that. But as a business owner, you're constantly trying to, you know, chase the next thing and you're constantly figuring things out. I've noticed that. Like when I'll hire a freelancer, not that they do a bad job, they'll be a good DP or whatever, but they'll go, they'll look at the shot list, they'll get it, they'll get it done. When I hire a business owner who's also, let's say a DP who's working with me, it's completely different because they're looking, oh, edit, what can we get? What extra can I do? What you know, it's just that that that that mindset, and I feel like anyone who's listening, I mean, there's nothing wrong with being a freelancer. If you want to be a freelancer, great. I think it's a little less stressful, it's still stressful. But as a business owner, I mean, we could be our worst and our own worst enemies, but we are always chasing whatever the next thing is.

Dalton Smith 51:27

Yo, I blame the three of y'all in a good way with this decision. Because frankly, I've been watching you guys and I'm just not doing it right.

Vipul Bindra 51:37

Well, I mean, to be honest, we don't have it all.

Dalton Smith 51:40

But you guys have some stuff I need to learn, you know? And I've realized that, and that's why I like to be around you guys a lot.

David Morefield 51:46

The irony is the freelancer is also the business owner. He just doesn't know it. Yeah. Everyone is a business owner, but to to your uh take on like someone who is more fully production-minded, they know um how the edit needs to look, and so they shoot for that. They also know I don't want to do that audio in post, so I'm gonna take care of it here because I've had that issue in the past. Like the mics, these are self-recording. Just let them self-record. You don't know, you might, you know, whereas maybe the person who's used to just operating camera might be like, no, I hear audio, it's good, but keep it going.

Dalton Smith 52:23

It's kind of like an employee at a restaurant comes in and works their shift, yeah, but the owner knows the door-to-door. How do they come in? What's the experience? How do we get them out successfully and get them back? So, like when I send you, I just know that you have felt the good and the bad of everything can go right or wrong. And truly, it's not about them being more talented. It's I think it's about their experience that's versed while doing the project.

David Morefield 52:47

I think it's also personality, they know the goal. Yeah, like I that restaurant analogy is great because like the the waiter is working on getting them a good meal, and the owner is working on getting them back over and over and over. So, so though the waiter is like, no, I'm I'm trying to do a hundred percent good experience for this meal, and then I know I did a good job. The owner is like, yeah, but like, was there a light hitting their eye that made it kind of weird? Was there a homeless guy out front? Yeah, was there a homeless guy out front kind of annoying their experience? Uh, how long did it take to put their name in? Like, much more comprehensive-minded. Exactly.

Vipul Bindra 53:25

And I and like I said, I I think it's personality. I don't, and obviously, this is something you can train with. They obviously they have college degrees even to go learn business, but I think it also is an inherent trait I've noticed. Like, again, we've all seen your vlogs where you're like, hey, there's my kit, it's working. Let me redo it completely from scratch, just because I want to, right? It's like your car. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Let me let me do this because again, we're doing it. Like, for example, uh, how many times have I just built my camera card? Like, I'm like, oh, it worked great. Let me start from scratch, and then you know, like, no, I can I can do it different, I can do it better.

David Morefield 54:02

A marginal increase, and and funny enough, just talk about something simple in three weeks.

Vipul Bindra 54:07

The amount of time my sock leaves have had the spreader removed and re-added. I don't know if you noticed this. I was so for a year or two, I was like, and I'm chasing seconds, like that's my personality type. So I was like, no, uh, spreader is not right. We I took spreaders off both. And now, as you notice, literally last two weeks, I'm like, no spreaders are here to stay because they're a genuine question.

Dalton Smith 54:30

It makes you better, yes, arguably, broker, which is fine because it's intentional, but do you think it refuels your passion tank? Do you think that constant tinkering and improving, regardless of your client's product, do you think it kind of gives you something that you need?

Vipul Bindra 54:46

Yes, because I personally got into this because I love the gear. Like I said, if I if I could work for Adam or you or you and just make enough money and just do this, I would do. But the the truth is you can't, right? One of y'all figures that are. I became a business owner. What? I said, one of y'all figure that out, hire all of us. I said, yeah, exactly. Because I genuinely like making content. I like making awesome content. I am a business owner because A, I feel like then I would have to find other hobbies to do on the side if I was an employee. But honestly, I do business so I can make videos. It's not the other way around. You know, I don't my business isn't to, you know, make videos. My business is how can I make videos? I don't know if that makes any sense. So point is I'm doing that for me. You're right. There's zero uh difference that made in our videos in the last three weeks that I did, right? The the simple thing is a spreader, but that's me going and noticing something and going, you know what, I was wrong about that. Or maybe I have changed, I've evolved. Because initially I was running them with spreaders, I'm talking a couple years ago, and I was like, no, this is in the way. So I checked them out, right? And it worked great. And then I'll recently have been like, no, this is not working, right? So I I checked them back in. I was like, how have I been doing this for two years?

Adam Kalinowski 55:57

And I think this may just be the filmmaker need evolving, or like you said, it's just I'm like filmmaker and entrepreneur, like problem solving, seeing opportunities and little things here and there, and then jumping on it. That's like entrepreneurship mind, right?

Vipul Bindra 56:10

And it could be, and I'm saying maybe we create our own problems talking to your vlog. It was one of my favorite ones. I I still remember you did a video where you were like, Oh, I redid all my setup, and then you showed up on a shoot, and you were like, you didn't have some small part that you would always have because it was in your bag, but now you don't have your bag. And I was like, This is so relatable because that happens.

David Morefield 56:29

Well, the the other side of that is like the person who's always tinkering, always trying to troubleshoot or figure out better efficiencies. Um you might be wasting your time, but you might enjoy doing that type of activity, and you know that it is somewhat going to help. There will be some ROI. The other side of that is when you show up to I remember productions a little earlier on where the guy has like the oldest camera in the world, and then the oldest tripod, and you're like, have you seen the new camera? He's like, No. Nope. And it's like and even that can go two ways. That can go two ways of like, nope, the business is going great, I don't need to. Or I'm stuck, or I'm stuck and I'm not aware of what else I could be leveling up with.

Vipul Bindra 57:18

So it's like I think there's a difference. So being a dinosaur, I feel like is not correct, as in where you're refusing change, but also that is a good strategy of doing not my I wouldn't do a business that way, but you don't have to constantly upgrade. I know enough people who are making so much money from their 10-year-old cameras. I know for a fact somebody who makes seven figures, I'm talking way more money than I make, running a video production company from a small town with cameras that are worth like I'm saying used to three grand right now, nothing fancy, old cameras that you would be like, really? I'm talking like DCMC one, like old red cameras and old Canon. I'm talking C100s. You know, but they're making money at the end of the day. It'd be one thing I'm saying, if the guys like Dan Swords are like, no, I just have to use this. That's not the output. It's like, this is what we're making, this is how we always do it. It's good enough. You know, rather let's invest in something different, like let's invest in more people, more salary, or whatever their version is. What I'm saying is there's two ways to look at it, right? It's one is yeah.

David Morefield 58:19

That sucks though for those guys who dropped 20 to 40 grand on those red cameras, and then the depreciation on the market went down like that.

Dalton Smith 58:29

Hopefully when they bought it, because I don't buy it unless it pays for it. Yeah. And like I'm transitioning into this like more modern, like I would just kind of say normal approach. But my when my buddy asked me, he's like, Oh, maybe something's wrong with your business. I was like, yes, but intentionally. Like, what do you mean? I'm like, dude, like I'm one of my few friends that has a freaking house. Like, I have more liquid than my, I'm not gonna say who, but yeah, I like I'm very proud of how much I've been like a little like hoarder. And I was like, it's definitely not been like, oh, I just want to not sleep or not have a life. It's dude, it's been tactical. It's work, but I'm 34. Yeah, I have a kid. But dude, when I was 26 and freaking I didn't care. So I believed I could make more time until now. And so bought on the equipment thing, dude. I have run, I at times I feel like I was filming with a banana with a lens taped to it. But what I've identified with my clients, I have shook some of the people hired. Like, wait, you want me to shoot in what color space? And you want me to when you would because what I've identified is a lot of my clients are sitting at a very similar bubble. 90% of it's going to social. They really just need stuff, they want it quick, they don't care. I've seen where people charge me more to do certain things. I'm like, I understand what you want. I'm getting paid, you're getting paid. My client likes it like this. But I've seen how it's bottlenecked me into a certain type of client and kind of in like a certain type of way. So now I'm like, all right, I can keep all these techniques that I like for certain people that are in relationships, but everything else moving forward, we need to kind of draw new lines in the sand and how we want to do this. And and frankly, I'm excited. I've been very nervous my whole life about any kind of things. I'm like, I'm very weird because I'm like resilient, but I'm a very anxious person. I'm like a hugely empathetic person, but then I'm very aggressive. So it's very, it's just it's it's exhausting. Yeah. But looking at this opportunity, I'm like not freaked out about the ESPN thing, even regardless of the calls. I don't know what it is, but my father-in-law was over yesterday to help me build the duck coop. Big stressor. The ducks moved into the freaking thing last night. They moved into the house. It was it was such a joy because I've had them for eight weeks. And when am I supposed to just take days to build? And everything's been against me. And he looked at me and he was just giving me encouragement. He's like, and I was talking about how excited I am for change. He's like, dude, it was funny. He's like, why do you think I grow a mustache once every six months and change my hair? And he's like, I'm not kidding, Dalton. It's to shock myself. You know what I mean? And I was like, dude, I have adapted through change, and I have definitely made changes to my flaws, but I haven't done change to my environment for my betterment in a long time.

David Morefield 1:01:08

You choose to change right now, which is a nice difference than being forced to change. Yes, exactly. Yes. So being choosing to change right now, um, you get to weigh like, well, what if I do this change? Like, let's just say I'm gonna speak for you. Let's just say you were saying, I'm gonna get some new kit that's gonna be a higher tier kit, and maybe I can uh promote that to higher level clients, or or just general branding of my company. Okay, how much does that cost? Costs this, this, this, this. Okay. And then you don't know exactly what it's gonna do, but there's so many people who could do the same thing with different tools. So, like growing up with surfing, it's like it's surfing filming, it's kind of like do whatever you need to do to get it. You know, it doesn't have to be the highest quality gear. But then I'll see like other people. There's a guy I follow on Instagram, Shane Kreutzer or something. Yes, he's in Hawaii, and um, you know, normally for surfing, it's like people were like on old 5D Mark IIIs with like a weird gimbal tripod and uh and a long whatever the telephoto was, and it was like that for so long. So then he is doing Komodo X with the RF, whatever it is, 100 to 500, um, getting R3D files. Um a lot of it's going on social media. But then I saw he was because he was at that level, um, when one of the local surfers here made it to the Olympics, he was filming Caroline do um packages. So, like, we're gonna do a sit-down interview and we're gonna film you surfing, and then those promo packages were put up in the Olympics and it cut in beautifully because it was amazing camera quality and he knew how to use it. So it's like he could have done all that surfing footage on very, very cheap and standard normal gear, but he went way up and beyond, way, way up above and beyond, put a huge investment into gear, and then that just allowed him to seamlessly float into Olympics packages. Like, if I had known that was gonna happen, I'd be like, Yeah, well, I'll do that, I'll buy that. Exactly.

Vipul Bindra 1:03:24

But see, that's you don't know where I think people just don't understand. If you I always tell people, if you don't know why somebody should buy that $50,000 camera, that means you're just not there. There's all there's the right project and the right equipment, there's no wrong equipment. Uh and if it is, then the company goes out of business, right? So these cameras are selling equipment, is just the right equipment for the right project. And uh I I have this all the time. Like I'll hang out with people and they'll be like why do you buy FX6? You know, uh, you know, and FX30 can do this or whatever, right? And then there's the opposite, you know, you have an FX6 on a set and they'll go, uh, you only have an FX6, right? It's it's a human perspective, but in the anime, the way I've always looked at, I'll have high-end projects, we'll rent fancy cameras, we'll use them. Then I have my our project we just did recently. FX3s are good enough. And and that that's a balancing ad. Anyone who looks at it the other way, it's just more, I would say, ill-informed or not looking at it. I'm saying project to equipment. There's no wrong equipment, like I said. It's no finding the right thing for what you're doing.

Helping Small Businesses Use Video Well

Dalton Smith 1:04:28

And I think it's good to look at what people are doing to improve and to lean into those things that are uncomfortable. But like I've said it at your meeting, I've said it on your, I've said it everywhere, I've screened from the roof hops. Like, I am the upside down, un, I don't want to say like a non-likable version, but I break every single rule in the book because I've identified what works for me with the clients that I've worked with, and it just works. And they give me their money and they like it and they're stoked. And I'm also seeing where I kind of have to bottle feed them forcefully into tactics that I know they need. So I've ID'd a couple ways that I'm giving people, because a lot of my clients, excluding like ESPN and stuff, and like visit Florida, it's it's it's different, their budgets are different. These small businesses that like need this return, like I'm realizing there's things that I need to tell them or package for them that is gonna make it work better. Because if I just allow them to not use it right, it's not gonna work. So one of the first people that ever paid me was called American Underwater Products, and it was an umbrella, had this baby little new brand called Lava Core. And their sister brands were big, Oceanic, Ocean Pro, big scuba stuff. Well, they paid me like $500 a month. I'm like 21. And I was just making pretty decent like little free dive content. And I would make them like a video a month or something. And they had them forever, and I would uh put them into like mashups in the end of the year. And the point is that they probably, I don't know, paid me for like three or four years and it increased like every year. Well, eventually it went away and it basically boiled down to their return. But what happened is that even though it was early days, 2014, 15, these people had no freaking Instagram. They weren't posting it on Facebook. They had no YouTube. They were strictly using it on like one or two little landing pages on their website and then at Dima for the scuba show. So I always compared it to them going to Walmart, buying oil, sticking it in the trunk of their car, and then being frustrated that it didn't work. Because it's in the car, right? And so I feel like I have that habit with some of my clients. So I've now ID'd do you have the knowledge and capabilities in the back end to make this hit? Are you going to actually get this out there? Because if not, maybe I can help you, or maybe I can sell you to one of my friends that has a marketing SEO company. You know what I mean? Because if it doesn't work, whether it's my fault or not, you're not going to hire me again. So I'm trying to ID my companies because a lot of my companies are like kind of like almost there. Yeah. And I'm I identifying that if I don't at least point them in the direction or say certain things, um, they'll just be like, yeah, give me a give me a two-minute video. That'd be great. Um, and if and it doesn't serve them.

Vipul Bindra 1:06:55

Yeah. Exactly. And that's why like one of the earliest things I did, what we do, and obviously it's different. Hiring clients, they don't need any of this. We just make them what they want. But smaller clients, one of the best things I do is called implementation strategy. So when we make a video for them, I will, once we deliver the video, I deliver it with a document that's I have enough variations, but generally customized for them on what to do with the video. Because you're absolutely right. Small businesses, especially ones that don't even have a marketing team, they have no idea what to do with that video. And a lot of times they'll throw it on their YouTube or or like even at their Instagram that's done, and it's like, no, this specific video was designed to go here, and this video is designed to go here, or whatever. And so that's helped me a lot. And it may not have a direct ROI for me because it's extra work.

Dalton Smith 1:07:41

But you're putting it to test.

Vipul Bindra 1:07:42

Exactly. And they see it, and then they now can say, oh no, this video is worth it. And they got a lot of the effort that you put in too. Exactly.

Dalton Smith 1:07:49

Like you're putting in genuine time to educate them on the product.

Vipul Bindra 1:07:52

Yeah, and to be honest, I did it six years ago. Now it's easy, but yes, it was worth it.

Dalton Smith 1:07:56

It's simple for you, easily customizable, and I think those are the little things that matter.

Vipul Bindra 1:08:02

Exactly. Because it does help me because I've had clients actually post videos where they need to go, which is rare. And then I've been like, oh wow, this is good, this works. And I've been doing that. And now, like I said, it's not not even effort because I just have to attach a file. I have to find sometimes have to, you know, change a few words, but you get the idea. And it's been really helpful. So yeah, I would I would highly recommend, like you said, if you cannot, especially small businesses, you cannot take them at their word of they'll come back and say, I want a two-minute video. If you just gave them what they wanted, they they will not hire you again. And you have to a lot of times go, what where are you gonna use it? What are you gonna do with it? And then when you do give them a video, like I said, giving something simple like that, and it's not a comprehensive 10-page book, it's just like a you know, one-page video document, just so that they have an idea what to do with it, can increase your business.

David Morefield 1:08:51

I got a question since we're all here, um, without giving numbers, where would you like your yearly income to go? Is it is it like two times what it is right now, five times, but maybe you think it might that might take 10 years? Like, are you kind of comfortable where you are and just want to uh make systems more efficient? Efficient. What do you guys think?

Dalton Smith 1:09:16

Mine's easy. I want to be right where I'm at, but step away to a normal position and then have the extra income to pay people to fill my gap. It's all I want. It's all I want. I love my house, probably achievable. It's like a hundred grand more. I am. Like that's like truly like for me to step away to like a normal human's position and pay people appropriately, it'd be like 75 to 100 grand. Because the problem with MPI is we're weirdos, dude. Like we're like a media entertainment company as much as we are providing production services. And I can't really abandon that side because there's this whole other world of MPI where even if we take on modern branding and we do things right, we really that's what the brand is kind of built on. So I need to get a social media manager that knows what they're doing, not someone I'm holding their hand. I need to get my whole back end with just the whole thing. And like it's systems. I talked to someone recently, it's systems. I got great teams and I know how to execute every leg of my business, including delegating the whole thing. It's just the trickle of ding, this happens, ding, this happens. I'm involved at every turn. That's the problem.

David Morefield 1:10:18

You know, you know, for yours, your your company, it it has this production level to it, or a production company. It also has this agency level to it, you know, where it can bring in talent from all different types of sectors. Um and we're we're trying to think of our businesses as professional businesses, right? They they all are. But I wonder what would be different if you treated yours like a a very high-level company where maybe you didn't bring in a CEO, but you brought in some type of C level executive who looks at your business and saying, like, I I think this is, I think you see it. This is underserved. I think there's room if like we really like double this. I wonder what that would look like if it like leaned into someone dedicated to to looking at your company and saying, if it was done right. Yeah, done right. Nothing.

Dalton Smith 1:11:13

Not the crap on myself, but like if it was set up, what would happen?

David Morefield 1:11:17

Yes. If we really doubled down on this, this is not just a company that films interviews.

Dalton Smith 1:11:23

Well, when we're done, I would love to show you guys the work I have so far. I did hire someone. I'm taking two big risks. I've never invested my company other than equipment ever. So I'm spending some safe but relatively good investments to rebuild everything. And I'm asking a lot of questions. I've asked you questions, I've asked you questions. I don't know what the fuck made me so afraid to ask questions. Like, I guess just me, the way I was brought up. But like my client the other day, I was like, and he's one of my clients, it's the tank people that they swear to God, they're getting rich off of me, but in a good way. They're paying me great, but he is using it. Dude, he is using it so good, man. And just the click rate return, it is like I could frame them as like the ideal client, right?

Adam Kalinowski 1:12:04

As far as like Central Fork, I should. Well, I think in terms of uh we get these kinds of results.

Dalton Smith 1:12:11

Yeah, and they're kind of what I'm targeting. They are small, big, they do have the idea of how to execute it, they know what they want, they like it, we're growing it. That's what I'm looking for.

David Morefield 1:12:22

Tank people for the for the audience is a company that you can rent a tank and smash over cars and jumps and trenches, and it's like a rentable experience. Like for real. Like those are the tank needs to be. Yeah.

Dalton Smith 1:12:39

No, well, I mean the tank, you know. I've been kind of like hiring all my other people to come just because like you guys get to drive the tank over there. So next time we go, if you guys ever want to go. Exactly. That sounds fun. Walked up to him and then I was like, hey man, your stuff's cranking with my content. How are you doing it? Who's running? He's like, it's me. So it's pretty simplistic. I'm a little bit broader, but drive tanks. He's got a campaign, he's got his ads, and just by asking, man, he was just a wealth of information, and it helped me realize I'm asking the right question. So yeah, man, taking a little bit more risk and uh trying to just jump, you know.

Vipul Bindra 1:13:10

Triple income-wise for you. What do you think? So and I I've kind of broken this down before, but for me, I'm really happy with the video side where I am. I need to do exactly what Dalton just said. Uh more efficiency. Because currently my business is, let's be honest here. Sure, I hire a lot of people, but it's just me. At the end of the thing, I I'm one human. Currently, I'm working, and no joke, another hour of sleep today. I am running, I have no idea how to run, especially now. I'm not even eating carbs, so I have zero energy. And somehow I'm running a production company. So, anyway, talking talking about video, I'm actually very happy. If I could just continue where I'm at, uh, and this year's a little downer, but we're we've summer's been awesome, so you know we're we're going up. So um, hopefully, if I can end the year where I ended last year, I'd be really happy. But here's where I see myself, what my next challenge is. I want to, and if you noticed, removing productions already, I want to go away from Bindra productions, where I wanted to be Bindra, right? And I want to expand into other articles. So we just started a new article, we do headshots and event photography now. So technically, Bindra is becoming a brand, right? So the idea is still different company, so it's not like Bindra does everything. Bindra can be a different brand, and Bindra can do video, that's a company. Bindra can do ideally in the future, ad spend for my clients. I don't have to send them externally, um, and that photography, but again, only to businesses, so we're still not gonna start doing vettings, but then um, you know, websites. Point I'm saying is I want it to be I can handle a business's entire marketing efforts under the Bindra with various companies that we have. So slowly expanding into different verticals, and these companies all support each other. Does that make sense? And these would all be employees or are these companies that you're gonna subcontract? Well, I don't know yet, and that's where the figuring out part is, right? Uh, because currently, with like for example, photography is subcontracted, but that does not stop me from bringing somebody in to do that because we're not doing like, for example, right now we're doing headshots and uh um event photography, right? I've always done that by the way. It's not like it's something new, but it was always like subcontracted, as in like I'll call a manual, for example, the guy, you know, the hey, I'm doing this event, like, can you come do photography? Here's some money, right? That was that's not really you know vertical, but now it's like proper. It's like we're if they just want photography, we can do that, right? Within those limited scope for a business. Point is that's at least for me next thing. I'm happy with video if I can sustain it, because I don't want the video business to hurt. But I want I okay, I'll give you a quick example. Here's what happens I'll make somebody a really awesome social media, like killer. Then I then I'm like, you need to put ad spend behind it. They're like, who? Either they go find somebody or I recommend them somebody. What happens is I because I treat like I'm the expert in video, I'm not an expert in ad spend. But they'll go to somebody and who'll obviously run their ad, but they're like, oh, we can do video. Do you see? And then it's a crappy video, it's not on par. But the thing is, but to a client's perspective, being real, you have to look at their side. They want one vendor, they don't want five vendors for photography, for video, for ad spend, for website. That's just the truth. We anytime somebody works with me currently, they're purposefully making an effort to work with me because I'm a separate vendor than the other vendors. Does that make sense? So I want to say that.

Dalton Smith 1:16:39

I should put a bookmark on that and we should talk about that. Yeah. Because that's a we should talk about that after because I want to hear what you're about to say. But I want to talk about that because Thomas really just said something that's been on uh on my brain lately about a production company versus the other services that are kind of required for those services to be you know successful in certain uh realms.

Adam Kalinowski 1:17:00

But yeah. I got some thoughts on that as well. I think revenue-wise, yeah, uh probably 100 grand more would be pretty solid. Um I've been more profitable this year, and I attribute that to more freelancing as a DP versus you know doing the production company thing. I don't know. It all averages out to pretty much about the same, but um I'm ahead of last year, which is cool. Um, you know, lifestyles creep up on you with the house and the kids and and all this stuff, so obviously that will need to go up over time, but I'm in that mode as well, as much as I can be while I'm also operating, but of building the systems, trying to hand things over. And I look to my buddy in Phoenix as a really successful production company that has great systems, has in-house um like social media manager, in-house um editor, cinematographer, uh, and of course he'll contract out others, but um learning from him and his structures because he's just he's got a great brain. And there's a good book, a boring book called Get a Grip. And there's a version of it called Traction as well, but it's about building the structures within your business. Super boring. I wouldn't recommend it as a thrilling read or a thrilling audio book, but they talk about how to um build those structures in your business and fill those key positions that you need in order for the business to function generally like a normal business. And I think that's helpful to actually look at um because you know, I sat on a call with him one time, like, dude, what does it look like? He's like, Oh, let me pour it, pull up our org chart. I'm like, you have an org chart, dude? What? What an org chart, organization chart where he's got like CEO, CMO, COO, Creative Services, production.

Dalton Smith 1:18:48

I'm like, what? Do you know what's funny? It encourages me and disappoints me in the same breath because I have done my own ghetto variation of all these efforts. Like, I've had my groms, I hire these young kids that literally have zero experience, zero training. They're like potatoes, but beautiful potatoes. They have the potatoes with potential and uh with potential, and I just bring them in and I pay and I pay them and it and it works because as they get older, I gotta kind of try to keep up as the life gets real, but it's worked and it's not normal. But I was a potato. You weren't a potato? You're a potato.

David Morefield 1:19:18

I got such great experience watching you handle chaos. Oh Jesus.

Dalton Smith 1:19:24

You were there during what was the evolution of Dalton, the person, to MPI Productions, the company. And that was through the Space Coast Office of Tourism Work. And I remember they had a couple conversations with me where like I knew the team and they were like, because like we, you know, we want to use you. And what it was is when my fiance split and I wanted to just be a potato forever. Um, they hit me up, like, look, we can hit up other companies, but we want to work with you. And I remember that got me off my butt. And uh, yeah, dude, that was huge.

David Morefield 1:19:54

How much work did you do those few years? Oh my gosh. I did a lot. I think like that was like the first few years of getting paid using a camera. And like I was on a skate park um employee salary before that, probably making like 11 grand a year. The skate park's open uh for like five hours a day after school. So it was a great job. But um I I think like I want to say like every every year I worked with you, I think it like went from like 11 to 18 to 22 to 28. And I was like, oh wow, this is like great for someone who is my experience is being propped up by by someone else trying to push forward. And uh so I got to take a lot of uh notes on what you were doing and what you were buying and how you were, you know, working. I kind of just like during that time, I was like, yeah, you know, Dalton works for uh these big companies, like you know, because he always does that. He always does that, and then like when I started get trying to get my own companies, I'm like, who are the big companies? And uh and then I didn't kind of listen from big companies and then I and then I was like, oh okay, I I remember he did that one job for maybe someone who was sponsored by that company three years before. There was always a weird point of entry. It was like, but he pushed that that one, maybe it was unpaid, maybe it was whatever. And I was like, oh, okay, so I I can kind of see how the long play works, and and that informed me of what some of the decisions that I could make that I did, you know, waiting around. And then maybe three years, four years later, um, they started to come back. And I'm like, oh yeah, I totally forgot about that. But yeah, yeah, we can do that project now. I'm ready for that project now. I wasn't ready for that project before.

Vipul Bindra 1:21:47

I want to know, but uh I want to know what your financial goals are. But before I want to touch on something, you touch by the R chart. That's like my nightmare. Like I I want a structure in my business. But if if I have a business where I have to have Monday morning meetings or whatever, like I'm dead. Like because that was like I'd never want to become a business where you know it becomes stupid conference meetings or meetings where people are just like, why am I here? To me, that's the failure point of a big business.

David Morefield 1:22:14

That's kind of how it goes, though. Yeah, but I don't want to be able to be on set adjusting the iris and managing large-level clients.

Vipul Bindra 1:22:24

No, that's fine. But I'm like, I don't want it to be like, oh, we have a company meeting every Monday or every Thursday morning for an hour, and half the people are like, why am I in this meeting? I don't know. I never want to get there. Uh, but anyway, um, what did what are your goals?

David Morefield 1:22:37

Um my my my financial goals are a little difficult to want to expand because the lifestyle I have is exactly what I want. I can surf when I want, I can skateboard when I want, I can go explore to the springs, and so and I'm happy with the money that I have. I'm very happy. I had like uh over a 2x uh from the year before last year. So I'm like, well, this is more money than I've ever had. The lifestyle is I'm working less, I have better level clients. But the business side of me is like, yeah, but you know, if you figure it out, you can make more. And that doesn't mean more hours necessarily. It might mean a little bit more attachment, but you can figure out certain systems to attract higher level clients, which is huge, instead of just working more at the level you're at. Um and kind of similar to what you're saying, kind of similar to what you're saying. Like a a hundred extra grand would be like I'm not complaining about that. That would be great, as long as it doesn't interfere with me being able to live the lifestyle that I want. And if I have to choose, I'm actually gonna stay where I am if it is a binary decision.

Dalton Smith 1:23:57

On both of your hundred grand. Is the hundred grand for you, or is it to spend so that you can breathe? Because mine is strictly, they won't go in my pocket. It's straight out the door, 75 to 100. So I more or less am in your boat where I'm very comfortable with my lifestyle. I'm very comfortable with the money we have. My wife doesn't work, which is a choice, and that's a huge thing. And like I have life insurance and I have very expensive things, and I max my IRA and like, dude, I'm trying to do it for two people, and it's we're hitting the brink, right? So that's why I'm starting to repurpose.

David Morefield 1:24:32

100K kind of brings everything up to we're not worrying, everything's fulfilled.

Dalton Smith 1:24:37

It's where I'm uncomfortable. So you and I share a similar balance of like we're doing what we want, how we want, but I'm really against the wall with how much other parts are behind my end that I'm doing alone, and it's just not working out. So yeah, even on the low end, man, even if I spent 50 and it's kind of it sucks, dude, because like I'm like, I don't want to do it till it's here, but it won't work like that. And it reminds me of when I accidentally fell into my Typhon Lagoon program. I was like buying sessions for $1,200 from Disney and then flipping them. And after paying my video guy and my surfer, we were making between $500 and $700 a session. And I was doing like five a week. So, and it was great because it was blowing up the MPI brand. It was this great thing, but like I built it as it went. And I think if you do where you're at, you're in a better position than me because you are comfortable. You kind of like have a good setup. So if you grow and don't break the rules you made to get there, I have to undo you know what I mean? Yeah. And it's like teaching an old dog new tricks.

David Morefield 1:25:34

Well, you have a couple other um large assets. Like you have the house already, you guys, everybody has a house already. You guys have like uh certain things that that do dictate this amount of money need to need to be in there. So for me, I guess for the extra hundred grand to answer your question, it's kind of more keeping things as they are right now and a little bit more in my pocket, a little bit more in the savings account, and everything's just kind of cushy, and and then I can I can gradually grow with that. It's not gonna be a good idea.

Adam Kalinowski 1:26:10

Yeah, yeah.

Dalton Smith 1:26:12

So what about you?

Adam Kalinowski 1:26:13

How would like where would your gross net? Um I would probably I would say that would be another another hundred grand um gross revenue would be great. And I would probably maybe split that in half in terms of bringing in more support to take weight off my shoulders. Yeah. Like whatever that ends up being a project manager or producer or whatever it is, and then half of it put into my own use in my personal life, whether that's investments or lifestyle or whatever it is.

Dalton Smith 1:26:45

Because you guys and most people could probably use more to put in the bank. I need help because I'm f choosing to put the money that I would put towards the help in the bank. And now I'm in a position to where my assets and my monthly requirements versus what we're bringing in with me stepping away, don't add up. Yeah. That's the dilemma. So thankfully I'm a gopher and I've been just hard, like hoarding money and there is no immediate risk. Like there's six to nine months of like we can stay afloat minimum. And that's before you, you know what I mean? So like that's a rare thing. That's a that's a beautiful blessing. So I'm like, I don't really want to wait till like maybe we don't have that, you know? Um, and we do have some good stuff, like our house is fixed at like an ungodly low percentage that'll never happen again. And I realized recently, I told Matt's, I was like, I was like, I need to shut up. I need to have faith and I need to calm down and I need to focus because literally we can buy candles and we can go get gallons of water as long as we don't lose this house. We you know what I mean? Like, because dude, we got our house at 2.3% fixed. And Adam.

Adam Kalinowski 1:27:52

Yeah, 2.3% times three.

Vipul Bindra 1:27:56

Exactly. No, and and funny enough, my first house was uh Closer to that rate, and I'm like, I wish I could get this one at that rate.

Meetups And Learning From Different Models

Dalton Smith 1:28:03

It's a miracle because the way I set my business up, dude, I'd be in deep, deep trouble. So we're all dealt hands of cards, and it's redalt pretty frequently. Sometimes it's a single card, sometimes it feels like your whole deck. And right now I feel like I'm just like about to light my deck. Um, but it's good, you know, it's really good. And uh that's why it's important to kind of it's a very old term, but someone told me this, I never let it go. He was educating me on the importance of just taking in insight from so many people. And he considered it a Rolodex, which is, you know, what everyone used to keep the business cards. And then I I just cannot let go of that. It's every single person, all these conversations fall into the Rolodex. So when I go meet this person and I give this advice or I have this conversation, if they like it, they consumed it as a singular piece. But it is literally built on hundreds of conversations from dozens of people. And I think that's the coolest thing in the world.

David Morefield 1:28:51

Yeah, I mean that that's why I liked doing my my filmmaker meetups. Is like, I'll, you know, sometimes you talk to someone and you're like, just talking, and then they say something and you're like, oh, actually, I need to tune in. How did you find that out? And you're like, you didn't really think that they would say something that, you know, that would hit you so much. And then I was like, oh, I'd like these conversations. Um maybe I'll invite some more people to these, and like later this month I'm gonna do one in New York. Sick. So that's gonna be like I I paid for the flight, I paid for the hotel. It's a completely that's just an expense. I'm not gonna make money off of it, but I have seen now where I'm like, dude, investing in yourself, that's me investing in myself. I'm gonna meet so many people, so many New York um crew members who are just gonna most of the value is they're gonna meet each other.

Dalton Smith 1:29:44

Dude, send it to me and I'll send it to the couple guys I work with in New York. Yeah, exactly. Literally, like I'm being serious. Like last weekend there was a lot of heartbreak, you know, a couple people local that worked this package, and how cool would it be if they could go meet other filmmakers in the city through you.

David Morefield 1:29:58

Different clients, different connections. And then I I think I think I'm actually gonna turn around really quick in the next week, the the week after, do one in Atlanta again. And it's just kind of like it's a fun pet project, it's a fun experiment because there's no like crazy deadline deliverable. It's like it takes a little bit of work, structure a meetup in a different state, but you're gonna have a bunch of cool conversations, and it's like it's not gonna go bad. Yeah, worst case scenario, you're like, Oh, I had a trip to New York. Well, do you're gonna meet people? Yeah.

Dalton Smith 1:30:28

Question Do you guys feel like you meet or excuse me, do you feel like you learn more from other people in our space that are like you or super duper different?

David Morefield 1:30:36

Oh, different. But for me, it'd be it'd be different. Yeah, different, bro.

Adam Kalinowski 1:30:40

Same just we all have similarities, of course, but like, and we're doing similar work on a certain level, but like just different models that people approach the business with.

Dalton Smith 1:30:51

You guys are just agreeing on dumb things to get the echo chamber, and like y'all are like a new beast to me. And I get to say David kind of morphed into like maybe a little bit more normal than I was, but like who quickly adopted this lifestyle. And so David has kind of been like cool because he's me, but he's like, you know, I was like, whoa, or how'd he get there? And so all of you guys, this guy Jared, I'm like, man, I'm I'm learning a lot from you guys. And no, no offense to any of the people I've run with, but I'm from the GoPro pack, you know? And it's like kind of echoey. Yeah, and I'm wondering, like, why don't those big jobs pop up more? Like, and and like, dude, I had a conversation with the girl we do my website, and she's awesome, and she nailed me in the freaking stomach. She's like, okay, so let's start at the top. I would never hire you for a wedding, ever. Period. I go to your website, it's fucking tanks, and guys are gold grills, and I don't care. Yeah. And so we're separating our wedding brand. And this girl is so I I'm gonna just shovel money at her because she is going above, and I can feel her enthusiasm to help me out. And I think that she gets my struggles, and I've never been excited to give someone my money like this. Um, and so yeah, it's uh it's very peculiar that we all had this conversation today, uh, just because like everything that I would have told you I'm doing five days ago, I it is pretty unapplicable today, which is super cool. Um, and so yeah, like you guys. I think maybe I'm the different one. Maybe I'm the weirdo, but I've learned so much from you guys.

Adam Kalinowski 1:32:18

We're pretty similar though, man. Like the GoPro pack, where I'm like on the FX3 pack, so it's like one little micro step right there, and that doesn't even make a difference. Really, that's just gear, man. It's business, yeah, exactly. Ownership, relationships, systems, and structures. Like the gear is readily available anywhere. Like you can hire so many people that have higher level gears. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's just relationships, how you you know operate as much.

Dalton Smith 1:32:43

I think the different relationships test us. Yeah. Especially like, I I don't know, like I feel like I'm flexible, but I tend to be particular. And so I've just learned so much being forced into like even broadcast. Oh my God, dude, I got my ass kicked. I think anybody that went with me could just could agree that you get your ass kicked trying to understand. I couldn't even, there was like they're speaking French. Like, go to JD. I love this story. Go to JD and ask him what layout stands for. I mean, shut your mouth. I mean shut up. He's trying to talk to the director, and I'm at the point where I'm starting to identify there's a couple moments in the in the flow that you don't talk, and JD is trying to talk to Aladdin, and he's like, layout, and I don't know what that means, but I'm not talking. And then he's like, shut the fuck up. And so it's just been so good to go into these very uncomfortable environments. I've learned more there. And I the my last sentiment to my client at ESPN, I shook their hands, I said, I want to tell you guys something serious. The the job, thank you. But the leadership that I've watched you guys go through just like, dude, I've seen not good things, great things, people get injured, someone had a stroke and they supported them, like all of it. Watching their leadership roles from a world that I'm not from has probably been one of the most like educational things I've been through. Yeah, absolutely. Man, yeah.

Vipul Bindra 1:33:56

I think at the end of the day, people have different leadership styles. And to me, I want to learn from everyone because at the end of the day, look, we all take input, right? I'm taking input from three sources, and I have my own input, and and I'm gonna go process that, and I'm gonna do what's best for me. You're gonna do what's best for you. So we're all in the similar journey, but we're making our own decisions that are best for us. And then, like you said, you come to a stage where you go, hmm, I could be doing that better. And you reset. But I'm pretty sure when we talk in six months, you'll have a completely different process pro uh, you know, because some things will work, some things won't work, and then you know, you'll again do that. And that's just, I think, the part of business, and I like this. To me, that's the best part of business. Well, I wanted to share with you guys.

Dalton Smith 1:34:40

I was excited, and hopefully it means something to people because I feel like so many people get the redundancy of it's good, it's good, it's good. And uh, this is a huge shift for, you know, my company's been good for quite some time. We've been great, but this is like a whole new rebirth. And I think one of my big pushes is realizing that like somebody could start a brand a day and have it going in 12 months, you know? Yeah, like who's to say? Like, why am I walled out from trying to rebrand me? You know? 100%. Like you are. Yeah. You're you're trying to look at your future and where else you want to go.

Vipul Bindra 1:35:06

And to be honest, at least what I do, I don't think even brand matters because no, I uh okay, let me say correctly. Yes, branding matters, brand matters, but at least what I do, it's all about relationships. As long as you make the right relationships and you meet the right people and you do good by them, you have no idea where the spider web is going, right? Just simply your meetup, a simple thing. Where has it led to? Look, where we are today. So I messed a couple years later, right? Yeah, and all of us, I I mean, uh, is where we are today. We're recording this podcast. So a simple thing as meeting in a coffee shop led to where we are today. You're about to go to a meetup in New York and then Atlanta, right? So it's it's like it's the effort and then the the energy that you put in, and then and I guess do your best, and then I I guess it just comes back. I don't know the right way to say it, but it's a spider web, right? You're you're building your web and uh and constantly reevaluating until you get to wherever you want to be.

Adam Kalinowski 1:36:07

Here's a random question that may be kind of interesting to talk about or telling of how we each like kind of operate, but what's like your biggest line item in your um PL sheet? Like your is it equipment, gear, uh, labor, website, marketing, like what's the biggest line item after your revenue? I feel like that can point to where you feel the emphasis on your own. So in a sense of like the whole brand or per project. So you're talking about. No, for your business. Um, but I'm just curious what your guys' like biggest line items are as an expense after like your revenue. Like, where does uh the biggest chunk go after you bring it in and before you you know pay yourself?

Dalton Smith 1:36:54

You guys are not gonna like my answer. My answer's gonna be you already know it's gonna be upside down. So it it uh basically all goes to the same pot. And then Deanne delegates it between like five or six different accounts. There's some that go to payroll, there's some that's like a checkings account that's a savings account just for MPI. We were really great, like just liquid account in like our checking account, but it's growing so much and our savings account's great. They actually called us like, hey, y'all should move some money over because I've got money in my IRA, money in the traditional stock market, but then I had all this like daily business money, and they were like, you should at least put like the bulk of it somewhere. But like I pay my people for the job, and then I very rarely buy equipment, but I don't know what's it's like I never upgrade. Like the last upgrade I did was when I bought that Z Cam. I guess that was like last year, but that was for funsies. Ain't nobody gonna fucking no nobody I'm currently working with is gonna care. But Tristan, shout out to Tristan, he got me super involved. I love those things. I shoot with my A7S3 like 99% of the time. So it's just so nice to manually pull focused and have this more cinema rig. And I enjoy it. But yeah, I don't buy stuff unless we have to. And if I do, I always aim to make it part of the budget. So like the live stream stuff, I've been kind of like chipping at it and we've been slowly adding to it. Um, but then like I guess like insurances and stuff, but dude, I keep all the money. That's what I'm saying. That's why I'm in this position. I have all the money. I have all the money. And I have a lot that I'm trying to do, you know. I have a house and my wife, and knowingly keeping her home is making me rely on the income more. But the problem is that she doesn't get paid a ton. Like she's a veterination. They don't get paid very well. And so if she we did the math, if she went back to work four days a week, I'm not gonna be able to sacrifice that much time to take care of Kaya. We're gonna have to hire someone that we don't know. And then you're talking like a couple grand. I should just be smarter and go get a couple extra grand. So you know what I mean? She can't walk in and be like, hey, Dave, I need a couple extra grand this month. I can go land a job, yeah, but I can't just keep making infinite time. So that's kind of the cusp of the change. So um truly, like if I did things right and took that excess income, it would be to me staffing. It would be to me appropriately staffing. So like I do pay my mom a monthly salary. My stepdad works in conjunction with her, and it's great because it's for their household, right? And my stepdad just does uh we use base camp. And so he does the structuring. Like when we get a contract with a dozen or two dozen deliverables, there's all these different things. He goes in there and puts the addresses and the names of each thing and sets it up so that way when I go to officially start playing the project, it's already there. And so Deanne does all the contracts, she pays everybody, she makes sure we don't go to prison for tax evasion, and then she just slides the contracts over to Harry in the same house and he sets it all up. And then historically, like at my peak, I had my mom and my stepdad. I had a full-time assistant working wirelessly, but I could basically call her eight to five and slide her any sort of logistics, which was great, man. I gotta go do a helicopter shoot soon. And I was just thinking yesterday, normally it'd be like, hey, Sydney, call this place and get a quote. Um, and then I had at one time I had four people on my Grom team. I had Trevor, or excuse me, I had uh Gavin, JD, this girl Lenny, and um then I had my uh social media girl. So, dude, that was the closest we've been. And there was nothing wrong with it, but you know what's funny? I just figured out how the hell I got here, guys. Holy shit. I felt these problems and I was like, risk higher, risk higher. And it was working right. Uh Gavin quit and it was bad. It was like explosive, it ruined our friendship, and we fixed our friendship. Love you, Gavin. Um, but it was it was really rough and it completely wrecked my trust. Then Elenny was older than the boys and had a degree, and she's like, yo, dog, I need money. She's like, I need 60 grand. I was like, that ain't happening. I'm sorry. And I was just like, We're that's not gonna work. So she went on her way. And she still worked with this contractually, but I was like, shit, now we're down two. And then the social girl, um, we like lost like one of our clients, and I got spooked, and I was like, hey, I'll just do it myself. I'll just keep that extra money. You know what I mean? That archaic mindset. And then uh Trevor got introduced, and he was, it's too long of a story to tell, but another grom, because I don't go looking for these kids. You have to fall on my lap and kind of I have to like you. So I meet this other kid, and he's like doing good, but he's like, I'm going to Sweden for six months. So he goes to Sweden, and before he left, this was last summer, me and JD, JD was still here. We, you know, adopted this kid for the summer. And I was like, the goal is for you to not suck at editing because he's a great shooter, he had no editing skills. Like, if you can do my light social work for some of my clients, it's gonna take some. It's like, I'll keep paying you in Sweden so you can have a job. So he goes for six months. He went from like August to January of this year. JD quits in November. And it was like brutal because he's like my brother. And like now it'll never happen again. But I had written this fairy tale ending, Dalton and JD till the end. He's gonna work here forever. And I had done that with other people, and I was just like emotionally putting myself there was the problem. But he did the right thing. He gave me two weeks' notice, he offered to help transition, which was great. So, what I did is I took the rest of November, December to just think. And it was weird because I had had a kid or a person in my office with me damn near every day during the week since 2020 for four years. And dude, it was weird. I had like an emotion, I like I had to like holy shit. So Trevor came back in January and he looked at me the other day. He's like, dude, can you believe I've only been back for six months? I was like, no. Oh my God. Cause dude, me and the kid have been running this year. So that's how I got back to this. And right now it's just me and this one Grom, and we've had some interesting conversations. I've been asking questions, and I ask questions I'm afraid of how much money you want to make. And he gave me some good answers. And I was like, Well, what do you want your future to look like? Because he's smart. He's gonna go do some good stuff. And he kind of saw an opportunity to be honest with me, but say there is opportunity for both, you know? Like I want to make a lot of money and I want to go and do a real job one day, but I see what's going on here, and maybe we can kind of mold this into the next version of it. So yeah, it's funny because earlier I couldn't figure out how I got here and I just figured it out.

David Morefield 1:43:30

So um so like for the line item question, it's it's almost like you you kind of gotta make you almost need to make your your line item bigger for your staff.

Dalton Smith 1:43:42

My line item would be paying appropriate staff for a real structured business. Yeah.

Vipul Bindra 1:43:47

Makes sense. No, it's the same uh for me, the people. Because uh, you know, every time I look at it, it's always people because people cost money. And I'm very, very much all about um I run my business very lean because I don't ever, you know, because we go through phases and I don't want to ever be have a huge payroll just sitting in there's no project. So I like hiring people based on project, even if it's consistently and um uh keeps it safe safe and easy for me. Uh but in the end, it's always people. It's always I would have thought yours would be equipment though. You you see the grip thing. I want to go to the perspective on that, but no, it's it's all it's people are 5x6x. Really? People, yeah, it's it's just a only buy the equipment once. People, you gotta keep getting them over the eye. Yeah, I mean, I really gotta keep buying equipment too. But see, the thing is, yes, I mean that's the simple way I can say whenever you get a project, people will be your biggest expense. Because you want to have right people, you wanna uh, you know, uh plus I like to staff well too, unless I can get somebody very skilled and reliable there. I want to have extra people there. Because like you said, oh well, not that that yours were W-2, but you never know when somebody could quit and get sick or whatever. So my thing is I know when the client hires me, I'm showing up, no matter there's an earthquake, but that does not mean the people I'm hiring, because they're freelancers, they're gonna show up if something goes wrong in their life, which is possible. So I always have to staff more than what I actually need. Point I'm trying to make is yeah, it's always gonna be people, the line item. I'd like it to be marketing, it's currently zero for me. And I like that number to very high. We do zero marketing, quite literally, uh, not even a penny on marketing for me. And I'd like that number to be very high above equipment. So currently it's people, then equipment, which is also a large number, but people are at least 5x equipment. Really?

David Morefield 1:45:39

Yeah, I I think uh for me it's it's the same thing, and it's uh uh contractor, but at this point the contractor is just L. Yeah. So I'm like, pair as much as I don't care, the money's routing back.

Dalton Smith 1:45:52

Well, and that's smart, and dude, that's stuff I've used to my leverage. Like by having people on salary in my internal with other benefits and other things happening, it allows me to have leverage for a better opportunity with the client. But like it should only be used like that in the right position, not like, hey, we can screw ourselves and make profit because of how it's set up, doesn't make it right. So that's the problem.

David Morefield 1:46:13

You know what I mean? And um like employees nowadays are only the owners. Having employ like staff is like so archaic for small production companies. They're like, I'm not gonna take on this huge expense.

Vipul Bindra 1:46:27

Every production company I know that had W-2s has gone to 1099s. Yeah, every single one.

David Morefield 1:46:32

And I don't blame them. Like that that I'm a 1099 for a million different people, um, a little less so now, but um, well, like ESPN has that huge crew.

Dalton Smith 1:46:43

Everybody is freelance, excluding the producer. Like, even the director is freelance. Like, so yeah, dude, like the whole thing. And like, like you said, it's like project-based. So, like this contract that they had for these seven years, I mean, they could all basically kind of like saddle up and assume that, but then what ultimately happened? And what I'm realizing, realizing it's not necessarily like panic mode. They're all gonna just reset and go fall in somewhere else. Me and my boys were freaking dropping bricks because we're like, um, first job. But it's encouraging because like they're all like, nah, dude, like there is so much opportunity out here. So 100%.

David Morefield 1:47:24

Yeah, what about you? For the for the line item thing, like for for me, it's it's um staff, uh, which is Giselle, which is fine. Um, and then the next one, which kind of like both you guys are talking about, is I voluntarily want to create this thing as the bigger line item. So for you it's marketing, for you it's it's staffing, having a solid uh structure of people to offload tasks and time and brain capacity and all that stuff. Um for me, I I think I would I would like to, it's very small scope. I would like to just get like one more client that is like my current retainer. Um, and that would afford me all of the things. It would be a lot of cash, not too much different of a lifestyle, not too much different of uh time investment, and still being able to do all the other things I want. Other than that, like if I was to increase my marketing and get a bunch of jobs, great, but also now you're just gonna be working a lot. And I'm like, oh, well, I don't need to be working 100% of the time. I really don't want to be. So, you know, I it's I can kind of like choose how much more income I would like to have, but I really have to check and balance that with, okay, how much more time is that? Because there is a a tipping point that I'm like, I'm not gonna go past that. So it's not just purely about like lowering expenses, increasing revenue. It's it's really like how do I maintain the life that I love right now.

Adam Kalinowski 1:49:06

Yeah, absolutely.

David Morefield 1:49:07

What about you, Adam?

Adam Kalinowski 1:49:09

Well, I would surprise people. Yeah, the biggest line is always contract labor for me. Like that's every at the end of the year, that's the biggest one. And I actually take pride in that. Uh, I think last year I paid people a hundred grand, and that's like really, really cool because that's my initial efforts of creating opportunities for other people. That's that's two solid jobs, right? That and then you feel a little bit like that small business vibe where it's like small businesses, you know, create jobs for America. It's like well, actually, yeah, I'm like experiencing that, and I just, you know, I'm doing that for people, and uh I'm proud to have it be the biggest line item. I hope it stays that way, to be honest. Um, I like to hire eight teamers, you know. Like I want to bring eight team people that are comfortable wearing a couple hats. Um that's why I bring you guys out often. Um So I and I know that that costs. Yeah.

Vipul Bindra 1:50:02

And I think at the end they keep that business is a collection of people. So if you don't have people, which is why it's a common thread, right? Either you want to spend more on staff or you have staff as your because how it's like the common thing. I didn't expect that to be honest. Yeah, because at the end they that is what it is. Either, you know, and without people, there is no business. Then you're just a freelancer, right?

Dalton Smith 1:50:22

And then I think you have to ask yourself what you want because David is super funny because we've had this conversation. We distinctively do different things with great intent. Like I will intentionally crash myself into the earth to go for this intent that I'm going for. And you're like, no, I'm good. And whatever that means, I need to work with is totally fine. And I think that's important because a lot of people have to ask themselves, like, who do you want to be and what are you willing to sacrifice? Everybody wants to be able to make the most and do the least. And there's ways to do it, but they're very hard. You know what I mean? Like it's very difficult. And so, yeah, like frankly, that is my goal. My goal is to get it to where it's at and I'm not there. And to have all these A people in position and to have this sequential thing. Cause I I've said for years, people have me twisted, I don't really give, I don't care. Like this is just to make money. Like I'm a filmmaker. I want to go shoot. Like if I wasn't getting paid, like I would be traveling with David, drinking Madayas, making surf videos, making animal films. Like that's what I would be doing. So when it comes to business, dude, I'm just trying to put as many zeros in the shortest amount of time while providing a great product. But like this isn't for funsies. The the passion is for fun. Dude, this whole invoicing, keeping up, surviving, being relevant, it's not fun. It's part of it, it's required, and I realize that, but you have to be honest with yourself about what it takes.

David Morefield 1:51:42

The part of that, when you it's like, but when you start figuring out how to correctly invoice, how to correctly do all these systems, then the money starts going up. And you're like, oh, oh, dude, it's a double blade soy.

Dalton Smith 1:51:54

It trust me, it goes both ways.

David Morefield 1:51:56

Dedicate a ton of effort into this because I can make more with doing less, but then that kind of pulls me back away from doing it. Well, think about this.

Dalton Smith 1:52:04

You guys have worked on a lot of like bigger projects, and so have I. But for all I know, I've maybe like prevented myself from it going to a certain direction because of my knowledge experience, whatever. I think there's a lot of opportunity with me overlapping with you guys some more, right? And as you guys know, I have a really great opportunity, and it's 100% gonna have the four of you, uh, the four of us, and a lot more people. I'm genuinely curious what happens for me after that? Like what happens when it gets presented like that? And this particular project, when when it happens, before we do anything, the day that we arrive, there are going to be dozens of people that come up and talking to me. Because I'm very involved in the industry. People from the WSL, people for the event, athletes, some of the people that are working, no judgment to me. But when they see that we're doing the whole thing, then they're gonna get what I've meant this day this last decade. I don't think that they doubt me, but when they realize that we're doing the entire thing, there's been opportunities for them to see how I was trying to do it earlier. No one failed me, but I just felt maybe they didn't understand the world you guys are living in, the way you're operating, because there's a big gap, right? And so I think this is the bridge, right? This is where I bring the A-team of all A team out to do something in the direction I want to go in. So I've got a few opportunities, and I'm always saying, forget what we're gonna do, what's gonna come from it, you know?

David Morefield 1:53:34

I think I think a way to set yourself up for better success for that project is to limit how many people ask you questions and like bringing in uh a producer who is that intermediary. Like, hold on, you don't talk to Dalton until it filters through me. I can probably solve this for you because there's gonna be fires that you will be pulling you that day a week before, two weeks before. And like there definitely needs to be a firewall of what we need doers and we need thinkers. And I have actually a couple great producers who could probably jump in in that role who I've spent more on budget before to bring them in, knowing this might be a little bit extra. I could do this all myself, but oh my gosh, having them be able to field all the questions and then synthesize it, present it to me, and instead of me going, all right, let me let me let me understand this problem, let me do this, let me what do they say? Let me let me go ask them directly. It's like this person does all that for me. And I'm like, for yeah, like what, 1500 bucks a day as a producer or whatever the rate is or project based. I'm like, you made my brain be able to like chug slowly, continuously, and like not get rattled.

Dalton Smith 1:54:59

And that's why I miss having my assistant that I had, because it was pretty awesome, man. There was times where there was like a conversation that had to be had with a client that was not requiring my assistance, and there was maybe either some resistance there or whatever, but just having that buffer. And then there was also this kind of chain of command where not everything got brought to my direct front door, and that was really nice. And um, you know, that is gonna be a big thing because I was talking to my buddy on the phone and I mentioned he, you know, yes, it was okay. And I told him about this big project. And he's like, what's really ironic, he's like, you know, I could come and help shoot because he's a shooter. But he's like, honestly, bro, um, I complimented him on his leadership skills. He's like, dude, maybe, maybe I could come in like for more of a producing role and a leadership role. And I was like, what's really ironic is we almost like, I don't want to say butted heads, but he's an alpha like me and he likes the lead and he's really spontaneous and um got a lot of energy. And I was like, shit, dude, maybe this is the perfect opportunity for this. I was like, this would be great. So it's gonna put me into a position where by default, so many more humans are gonna be required than I'm used to. And I'm really excited just because in conjunction with that, it it appears to be an appropriately set up production where I'm not gonna get not enough tools to do this right, you know.

David Morefield 1:56:14

Then he might make wrong decisions on the day, and you have to afford him the autonomy to be like, oof, I, you know, I gave you that risk, you made a wrong decision, you made a right decision, like, but that's your role. And that's super hard to step away and be like, oh, I think I'm needed over there. And it's like, maybe, but that's his role. He is supposed to figure this out right now. You are supposed to figure out what you are doing. But giving that that risk to someone is like, I think finding thinkers has been one of my hardest things.

Dalton Smith 1:56:47

I think it was kind of like what you're talking about with like a freelancer versus a business owner. No offense to anybody, I don't mean this the wrong way, but like getting someone to like execute labor is pretty straightforward when they're good at something. Getting someone to crisis avert, yeah, getting someone to to to identify something early or know how to do the dance, that is difficult. And thinkers are hard to, I don't want to say hard to find, but they're crucial. And I haven't hired enough to help me lift that part. I'm like, oh, 10 shooters, 10 shooters. Yeah. And then I try to like wear it, and I it's hard.

Vipul Bindra 1:57:18

You know, that's why I take every business advice with a grain of salt. You know, most people that I talk to who are in the entrepreneurial world, the first advice they give me is you need a CEO or you know, somebody like that who can, because you know, my biggest issue is time and availability. And it's been like, oh, you need somebody like that. I'm like, no, but the the thing, the reality that they're missing out is that person is not gonna work for me because the person that can replace me has their own company, has their own company. That's what I was gonna say. Has their own company. So you have to find roles, like you said, where you can give them a role and they can probably get good at it and expert. They cannot fully replace you, they cannot be 100% autonomous, right? The way it works is at least the way I'm figuring out right now is I can maybe fill in somebody like, hey, your role is managing post-production, right? And then they can handle that. But I don't think there's a person who can replace me who can do the full crisis management, client management, all of that, because that person exists. I mean, we have three right here, but you guys are running your company, you're not gonna come work for me if that makes sense.

Dalton Smith 1:58:21

Yeah, well, not company wide though, yeah, on a project basis. There ain't no way in hell anybody's gonna step into what I'm currently doing because it's not done right. And that's the big problem. That's why I have so much struggle getting people because I'm like, hey, can you wear 14 hats? And that's the problem. But like on set, I have certain people that I know if the client starts getting a little weird, if something's not going right, they're gonna spot it and they're gonna know to say something. That is what's so important. And that's why, like, I don't question rates, like you said, for certain people, because I know for a fact, good, bad, or ugly, they're gonna respond correctly. Like it's their business.

Adam Kalinowski 1:58:57

Yeah, exactly. Like customer service mine, like set you on that a job uh with with the Red Cross for 10 days, right?

Vipul Bindra 1:59:05

That was fun. Then send it to me for two days, turn into 10 days. Turn that 10 days.

David Morefield 1:59:10

Yeah, I was but it was two, like the call to Vipple was yeah, something like that.

Vipul Bindra 1:59:14

Two or three days. But what's what's crazy, and I I love that story for me, because I think, well, I guess I'll let you speak.

Adam Kalinowski 1:59:20

Well, yeah, it was just this is an example of the customer service mind that you want looking out for you, even when you're not there. He's talking to these folks from Red Cross and getting my name in the hat for other opportunities outside of this coverage we were doing. Like pretty big opportunities. And he's like just exploring that during car ride conversations. I'm like, dude, I didn't ask you to go out there and sell for me or like talk to clients that way for me. I asked you to like film, don't get hurt and like edit some things and then come home and get paid. Like that kind of thing is why I always try to hire a teamers as much as possible and people that have that customer service mind and personality. Because you can trust them to talk about it.

Vipul Bindra 2:00:07

But here's my perspective on it. I would be doing that anyway. So if I'm on a car raise with someone, I'm not gonna be in, you know, on my phone, not we're having a conversation. And if I explore an opportunity, I'm gonna treat it like a business opportunity. I'm like, oh, you do this. Oh, you have a 30, 40 grand video contract. You do this every day. But now I'm normally I'll be Binja Productions, but now I'm like, no, I'm representing him. So I immediately go, AK Studios can handle it. Adam K Studios is the right partner. Uh, I think we need to get next year when you're contracting.

Adam Kalinowski 2:00:36

He's literally selling me harder than I would ever sell.

Vipul Bindra 2:00:39

So I'm like, dude, why are we not doing this? She's like, we don't have a flying budget. And I mean, they have I was like, no, B will manage the budget, you just give us the 30 grand or whatever. It's for Adam and me to figure out. But again, I would be out of it. But at that time, I don't want to say on it because you got me. Yeah, regardless. I'm like, but I'm like, no, B will figure out the travel budget. You give us the total budget. But in that moment, I'm doing what I would do, but I'm doing it because I'm representing him.

Dalton Smith 2:01:05

But you're doing it because you trust him to keep you in the loop for the job to because if you wouldn't care. But that's but is that not the right thing to do though?

Vipul Bindra 2:01:14

Yes. But here's the thing: I if Adam tomorrow called me and said, hey, uh, we close that thing, I think Katie, Kathy, what was it? Well, either way, we close that deal, awesome, but I don't have a role for you. I'd be like, awesome, dude. Because I wasn't doing it out of thing, but what I'm saying is I cannot turn it off. Yeah, right. But you did it the right way.

Trust, Poaching, And Protecting Your Agency

Dalton Smith 2:01:35

Because what if you said, I'm gonna take that? But then he would never hire me. And I wouldn't. So the reason that I'm here right now is because of him. Yeah. When you brought me to your meeting and I spoke to everybody, what did I tell you? I don't I don't fuck with other people, dude. I've been burned way too many times. I have a chip on my shoulder, you can see from down the street. This last weekend, while I'm in Madison Square Garden, I pull off this idiot project last second for some people that are in Bavard County, and frankly, the blood was on the wall. They asked for a quote a month ago, they hit me up 12 hours before they wanted it. I was like, if I can get someone there, then why not? Right. So I'm contacting. I texted you, I think. And I and I contacted everybody. I ended up getting a guy from the other coast to drive over there to do this. At the end of the night, I'm in Massescore Garden. The last fight is in the last round, okay? And I hadn't heard from him. And I realized how late it is. I'm like, how did it go? And he says, went well, but they hired me to come back for tomorrow. I was like, no, they didn't, because I didn't get hired. Are you out of your effing mind? So I text him and the client and obviously very cleanly was like, it's my understanding that you guys discuss services tomorrow that would need to be executed through my agency that you hired in the first place. This is something that's never happened before. They both blame each other. They both tell me that the other approach them first. So now I've lost a client and a shooter, a very, very talented individual. And then in my fluster, I broke my rule, which is don't call people when I'm angry. But the conversation that I was attending uh attempting to diffuse was not really getting responses that I wanted to hear. So I picked the phone up and I was like, look, dude, how am I gonna have an agency if I paid you a rate, you know I have to get paid, and then you go back the next day and take what I paid you the first day. And then the client, I'm like, are you joking? You're in a multimillion dollar complex and you didn't know. So it it's super hard for me to trust people. And it's because unfortunately, I've been paired, I think just through irony and bad luck, and maybe by not getting to the level that I should be at. I get these people that make it very hard to grow. Because to grow, you need to trust people, right?

Vipul Bindra 2:04:04

Yeah. I don't want to keep, you know, giving this guy props, but this is why go to his networking media. He loves it. Because he changed my mind. The reason I'm saying is you are right. You that is not acceptable course of business. And if somebody's doing that, clearly you cannot ever hire them again, regardless of how they respond. But this is why I like meetups. You meet people, you get to gauge them, you get to know them firsthand. Because you know, if I just wanted to hire people, I get literally 20-30 emails every day from people, hire me, hire me. And I don't even know how they find me because I do zero marketing. I guess they're Googling from full sale, wherever they're studying. Point is hiring people is the easy part. People are like reaching out to get hired, but I would never hire them, not because I don't know them. And the the the thing I liked about your meetups, or in general, or just referrals from, like I said, if Adam told me or or uh or somebody I know, like you tell me that I know, hey, this person's stressworthy, because to me that's far more important than skill. Obviously, skill is important, but the right person is far more important because the right person can put an effort into learning that skill. But you cannot, I don't know, I feel like you cannot replace good people.

David Morefield 2:05:14

Relationships start if they're in your network somewhat, it would be extremely irresponsible for them to do that because they because the maybe the person who introduced you.

Dalton Smith 2:05:26

That's the hot part is he in he's not in, he's not in my network of people I hire, but he could have been for bigger stuff because there's no boundaries to flights and such. And that's whatever. But then I'm just like, what am I gonna do the next time I talk to my actual buddy about this? Which I'm not gonna bring in, but it just it sucks, man. It really sucks. But without me getting all deep into it, I truly credit you. And I've told you this before, dude. You ask for advice to rip your art apart in hopes of getting honest feedback. I would never until you really showed me that there are people that can care to help you, right? Like what has made me stand out is that I'm different and tenacious and have a lot of energy, but it's also harmed me. It's also held me back. So, dude, that meetup, I was nervous to go to that, dude. I don't like being judged. I don't like feeling like I'm not in my space. And I did not feel like that. And when I walked in, I didn't see nobody that looked like me. I didn't see nobody that just inherently felt like me. And you went and broke your back trying to help me with a nightmare situation years ago, dude. One of the things that has now led into what we're doing right now, which is the size of a pool, and that was the size of a shot glass. Dude, you he was like, call Bendra. You call Bendra, I swear to you, you're gonna have this figured out. So just the the change that you gave me, forget excluding the the two humans. I'm gonna meet more humans in the future now because you helped me kind of break down that barrier.

Vipul Bindra 2:06:50

And and it totally works. I've told this story before, I think season one when you were here. Uh, I was with you in North Carolina, somebody, I just needed a drone pilot or whatever in Miami, and he recommended a guy. Uh, and and you know, and this is the part I'm talking about finding the right people. David said, hire this guy, or I'd recommend this guy. I didn't look at his Instagram or nothing. I trust David enough to know he wouldn't burn me. I hired the guy, you know, I called him. I discussed rate and hired him immediately. And the guy was so awesome because he showed up and we realized uh they want drone shots here, and there was that very little opportunity. He was supposed to be in the air for a couple hours. But like, well, you're gonna fly a drone for 10 minutes. And the guy was again, this is why I'm talking about hiring the right people. He could have just been like, sure, I'll sit in my truck or I'll wait here till my roll knees needed. He was like, No, let me, let me, I I know because I always bring extra cameras. Like, I can grab an FX6, I can grab an FX3, or like I can go get you footage so I can be useful. And to me, you know, that is the type of people I want to work with where like they immediately understand the situation, they're willing to, you know, go above and beyond because he didn't have to, but to be real, uh it wasn't that unreasonable of him because you know he he knows how to operate a camera. Point is everyone won, right? And now I've sent him job because I'm pretty sure I got him hired by you because he tech he called me, he's like, Hey, thanks for recommending me or something. So I'm guessing you hired him. Um, so and that's how it goes. And I and I would never send somebody to someone if I didn't trust him. Now I know what kind of a person he is. Uh, I don't to be honest with you, I don't remember. I just remember getting this call from him. So, you know, it goes what comes around goes around. And that's how it should be. And and and so to me, finding the right people and and finding them from your network of people that you trust is way more important than finding the most skilled people of MX.

David Morefield 2:08:37

Feedback, kind of you were saying, like asking for like when I would say, like, oh, rip this apart, or a lot of it is I welcome it. Doesn't mean I'm gonna believe it 100%, but like I'll just like note it, catalog it. Like, maybe I'll disagree with it. But like, I think uh sometimes I'll have the tendency to like get triggered by it and then get defensive, and then like Bro, it's like you you you critiqued me one day without me asking in my head.

Dalton Smith 2:09:09

I was like, who asked you? But it was funny because I internalized it because I think you had literally right before the same day just showed me your documentary, and the first thing you say is, what do I fix? Yeah. And so, dude, just uh it's just I I just my whole pitch, like is you can buy a camera anywhere, you can get a job anywhere. I just think who you are, the relationships. I I love when people sacrifice for me, not because I want to see you suffer or take less than you're worth, but when you show it's like you want to see in a spouse, you know, like if you're gonna surround yourself with people and do this for a longer effort, you want to see that like relationship.

David Morefield 2:09:47

And it's cool because you get to see, oh, I wonder what they're gonna go off and do because they got they got some like fire in them, they got they got some curiosity in them. I I bet you I'm gonna talk to them a year later and they're gonna be like, oh, I was just doing this. And you're like, I mean, that's crazy. I guess I'm not surprised, but I'm not surprised who found those opportunities. But if you have someone who's um kind of more I don't want to say employee brained, but they are just like, tell me the task I need to do and I'll do the task and then tell me what you need me tomorrow. It's like that's great labor to your point. That's great labor, but um our levels are gonna kind of be like this. They're gonna stay like that. Yeah. But if I find someone, it's really nice when you find someone, kind of kind of like you, like your buddy recommended uh this was a compliment to meet me because you were coming into Orlando. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh I was like, I it was not for me to be like, let me find a uh a subcontractor that I can like put on my on my thing.

Adam Kalinowski 2:10:52

I didn't have anything at that point.

David Morefield 2:10:53

Yeah, it's just like you hired me. Yeah. Um I was just like, oh, so he he has this going for him, he's got this going for him. That's kind of cool. Like, I wonder what he's gonna like find while he's here, and then you found your own thing, and then someone finds their own thing, and it's just like, okay, yeah, I want I want to be one of those guys who's like curious and and looking forward. But if you have sometimes if you have a cushy situation, you're just like, I'm just gonna chill, I'm gonna sit here and like, how come I haven't done anything interesting in a while? It's like well, those other people are are hungry and and they bring their A-team brain when they're hired. And then when they're finding their own clients, they retain that A-T brain and they're finding this like you on the hurricane thing when you just found him more contracts like to bring in. Like, yeah, yeah, it's it's cool to be around people who are motivated and act on that motivation.

Vipul Bindra 2:11:48

Uh can't believe it's been so long we've been talking, but before we go, I there's another topic I did want to teach uh touch because I've been and and kind of related to premium gear that you were talking about, because I do want People to see the business because I'm normally, you know, I've given just advice like don't invest in gear or whatever. And uh everyone comes here and talks about how much gear I have or whatever, even you assume like that's like the biggest expense. I want to talk to people again. My advice is still don't buy gear, but I do want to show people that the gear that I have is because of the work I have. I don't buy gear. Yes, I like gear, but I don't still don't buy gear just because I want to. So for example, um, you know how uh how business decision is made about gear, at least in my business. So, for example, I bought uh two 300 E2 lights from Aperture back in uh 2019. Today is 2025. The lights work fantastic. I take care of my gear, they're excellent. I have used those lights hundreds of times in the last six, seven years. And um, so the investment I think was $1,200 to $1,300 per light. And um, they have gone out on rentals and made me at least three to four grand each light. On top of that, now I'm gonna up because I'm upgrading the lights. I'm gonna sell them for $600, roughly, five to six hundred bucks. So for a 50% cost of the equipment from the business perspective, I paid uh 50% of the cost of the product in its life cycle. If that product is now gonna go make somebody else weigh more money in content, and now I get to upgrade for another 50%, because the new light that's replacing it is about the same price, 11, 1200 bucks with tax. So for another 50%, now I get to last the gear another five, six uh you know, years, assuming. But point I'm trying to make is as the cost of the business is literally profit. I made money from that year. I hope that the perspective sets in. So I've had the light for $600 and cost after sale. For six years, that means the cost per year was $100. I I rented it out at least every year for a thousand bucks, and that's not counting the numerous times we used the gear. I hope that makes sense. Geared when you buy gear, which I'm about to sell you something that it was a total loss. So let's not, there is a negative side of gear too.

Dalton Smith 2:14:02

Listen, just just buy people like Benjamin, wait.

Vipul Bindra 2:14:08

Now there's the next other side too. I bought a gear for $2,700, quite literally, and two of those. And one of them has sat brand new in a case, and now I'm gonna sell them for a huge loss. But the thing is, I didn't need two. I I didn't need to buy two. So there's that side of it. But what I'm saying is most, and sometimes, you know, business, you make bad decisions too. That's okay. Uh, but ultimately, what I'm saying is most of my gear makes me money. It's not an expense, it's uh it's an investment and it's done very calculated so that eventually there'll be a return. Uh, there's some bad decisions, but overall, as a business, the decisions are 90% positive, which means the business can continue. So, anyway, that was just a right summary of guys, like I'm not wasting money in gear. Gear is an investment, it makes me money. Uh, yes, I still don't wouldn't recommend it. I would be way richer, I would have way more money in the bank if I didn't buy gear. Because I can hire people who have the gear.

Dalton Smith 2:14:59

So why buy it's a great mindset though.

Vipul Bindra 2:15:01

Yeah, but it's not an expense, it's just an investment. And I 99%, actually, some of my stuff sells for more than I bought it. Because you have to understand, like, some like FX6 went at 500 bucks, right? Or whatever. So a lot of things can actually uh appreciate in price by the time you sell it. So I have sold things for more money after using them for years, and it was a positive net. Anyway, I just wanted to share the opposite perspective on gear than I have in the past. Like, I am not losing money in gear, I'm making tons and tons of money from gear too. So another side to look at it, yeah. And that only matters if you buy premium gear, which is why I always recommend buy the right thing. Buy the Teradek, don't buy the cheaper brand. Will it work? Yes, but you won't get that resale benefit that I'm talking about. That in five years people still want it. Same thing with aperture lights or sockler tripods or you know, stuff like that. Like I might believe it or not, this sockler, I think the first one I ever bought, cost more. I could sell it for more than I want brand new because the price is so jumped on these sticks that it's c it's 1.5x the use price than the brand new I paid six, seven years ago when I bought it. Because, you know, and that's just a appreciation and price of the the gear or whatever. So again, that's just another perspective. You can buy gear, but you have to buy it strategically. And my advice always is buy the the premium option because that's the only way to have resale value. You can buy cheap stuff, there's nothing wrong, but then that's not uh where you'll make your money back.

Adam Kalinowski 2:16:30

You just use more than expendable technical.

Final Takeaways And Next Season Tease

Vipul Bindra 2:16:32

Yeah, exactly. And then there's nothing wrong. You use it, you and that's also uh you know a way to gain value, but don't expect to like get money back. So anyway, that was it. Um, guys, thank you. Thanks for coming. Before we go, anything else we want to touch on?

David Morefield 2:16:49

Um, well, I'm excited for the big project that you have that might include us and many more people. Um stoked to see how that works out. And then really, like I was saying before, surrounding myself with other motivated, curious people is just cool because I get to like sometimes just eat popcorn and be like, oh, oh, you got that cool thing? You got that cool thing? Cool, cool.

Vipul Bindra 2:17:10

Yeah, I like being in this group. Exactly. No, I love uh, like you said, David, you started this. I can't believe you're here. Um, as in introducing me to these amazing guys here. And there's so much to learn, man. The amount of chats I've had with this guy, and not all of them are good, but we'll say some are positive. But you know, on planes and places plus the chat I had with you when you were here, the value that we can gain. This is what I wanted. Like I said, this is a passion project. I can't believe we're finishing season two. And all my my thing was people should hear these valuable conversations and and and can believe we've done it. So I want to really thank you, Belton. Thank you guys, man. Twice on this season. For sure. Thank you, David, coming twice in this season, and Adam. Uh, so I really appreciate you guys. Uh, this season has been incredible with incredible guests, and uh, we will see you next season. And I do want to shout out Mario before we go. The guy's been a trooper sleeping over there, though, but still here. Thank you all season uh for making this happen. The this really was a lot more easier than me managing everything. So Mario. Um, and uh like I said, I'll see you in season three, and we'll do something completely different. Uh we're gonna change it 180. So see you. Bye.