Welcome Back And New Focus

Vipul Bindra 0:04

Welcome to another episode of Studio B Sessions with me, Bindra, the owner of Bindra Productions here in Orlando, Florida. It's a podcast where we have unfiltered, raw, unedited conversations with other video professionals. And Mario is again on the producer table helping us make this thing happen. Hey guys, how are you today? And our guest today is Jacob, an industry professional of many years who's been killing it. Building a, you know, you've built essentially a really incredible small team of people and uh found yourself a really cool niche. Uh, it's just incredible what you're doing. Thanks, brother.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Well, first of all, thank you for having me back.

Vipul Bindra 0:41

I know. You're one of the few people who are, you know, coming back. And again, it's not that everyone was great. I'm just saying I just wanted it to be a lot of new people, but I also wanted to bring some favorites back from season one. So thank you again for willing to do this again. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Yeah. I'm definitely, I was driving over here and I was thinking about all the things we talked about. I'm like, okay, we have some evolved conversations to go over.

Vipul Bindra 1:04

Exactly. We can go deeper now. We can actually see what worked, what didn't work, what we can do different. I think it's just again, the whole point of this is uh is to just catch up. And we were already gonna have these conversations, might as well let other people listen to it. And you know, it's just entertainment. You're cleaning the house, might as well listen to other people who think like you, then I know some random other podcasts. And then for me, I love doing these when I'm driving. You know, you're taking a road to Miami or Atlanta, play a podcast. You know, uh as a filmmaker, I'm saying I like to listen to other filmmakers, right, than just random people. Uh so this is fun. So, how's things been? How's what has changed in the last uh I don't know, seven, eight months? Then let me talk.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Wow, so super crazy. I mean, first things first, I really stopped trying to control my business all of last year. It was really about trying to set myself up for success and trying to put you know uh conversations or people in place to exponentially grow for 2025. And what I figured out was it was just causing me so much headache and heartache. And so I just decided to like totally let go. And that's really the biggest change. And honestly, it's been like the best thing.

Vipul Bindra 2:27

Really? Yeah. So what did you have to let go of?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Well, first of all, we did let go of a staff member. Okay. Um, that's always huge, changes the whole dynamic of everything entirely. And I would say I stopped chasing clients um in between you know, those two things on the flip side, I had so much more peace and free time which I could invest in my family, my home or myself, like nerding out, playing games. So and then it was really cool kind of when I just submitted to that to then have stuff come to me. So in getting clients that I never could have dreamed of or pursued. And so I was very, very fortunate to get a couple of those this year in 2025 without like any sales or what how do you think why do you think they found you?

Vipul Bindra 3:32

How did they first find you and why did they pick you? I guess would be the question.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

So I'd say the the one that I'm thinking of in particular, it's a really it's a really gnarly story. I I am contractually allowed to talk about the work. Um so yeah, I'll just I'll go ahead and share. I'll share it because I think it'll be valuable, it'll be super valuable to everybody. But I had a I had a friend um who just personally cared about me and personally looked out for me, and then and it would invite me to networking events. Uh her name is Callie, and so we had like a relationship, um, just kind of stayed in contact once a year, twice a year at these events, and then um she moved companies uh to a bigger company called Clarity Innovations, and she uh put my name in the hat for some video production. They were revamping their website, and so she invited her team invited me to bid, and I bid on I did bid on the project, and it um I put put together a pretty gnarly number. It was like I put together like 250k package or something like that. But um, the scope was like huge. Like the scope was it was like what is it, like a year's of con year, year worth of content, or what it wasn't it was mostly about having really pristine and very specific visuals. Okay, like they wanted um their executives like outside of the office, so they wanted home life, they wanted and and and the way I saw that was like, okay, I'm gonna need crew to move, and they also wanted production done within like uh three weeks, and they wanted to cover like five to seven executives. So in my head, I was doing math. You gotta have teams of I have to have at least two teams shooting every single day, trying to hit maybe two people a day in just production, and then um the they wanted it turned around within uh it was like it was like two and a half months. They wanted all the videos edited and they wanted VFX too. And I was like, okay, I I have to hire a lot of people for this. So I just did some rough numbers and then I put in the bid, and then um, you know, the we we didn't get it, and they were like, hey, you were you were definitely over, and I was like, okay, um, like I'm happy, I was almost happy they didn't select me because I knew that my life was gonna become like really it was gonna be horrible. Yeah, so I was actually kind of glad I didn't get it, and then um as expected, uh they had tons of delays, and the website was delayed, and the videos didn't come in in three months, which would have changed my price entirely, yeah.

Vipul Bindra 6:32

Uh and so So was them delays or the people who won the contract, the people who won the contract didn't do a good job of the contract.

The Big RFP Bid And Lessons Learned

SPEAKER_01 6:39

They didn't satisfy the contract by the time, which we would have. Yeah, yeah. But um, so that was there. Well, again, I was like not worried, I wasn't like, oh, you guys skipped me or passed me or whatever. I didn't criticize anything. The videos came out, they were awesome. You know, I congratulated them, thought they were amazing. And then out of nowhere, um, this is a great example. Me and my DP were in the airport getting ready to fly to San Diego, and the flight kept getting delayed. I haven't had a delayed flight in like years out of MCO. I mean, I know they happened, but I haven't had one in years. And I was looking at him and I was like, I don't feel like we should go. I got a bad feeling. And so I called uh my client in San Diego and I said, I'm gonna pay uh a DP to come out. And it was Al Albert Um Alberto, he's in San Diego, he's a DP, but okay. Um he has a YouTube channel, pulled through, amazing product. So we we stayed. We we all of our gear, we drove right back home.

Vipul Bindra 7:48

So you basically had a premonition, basically, or uh premonition is the right one uh that you did you shouldn't just get on the flight, you didn't, you just hired another DP, which is fine. I mean, uh, because it's good to collaborate with other filmmakers. Yeah, uh, did something come out of that? Was that correct? Yeah, so here's where here's where the story comes.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Okay, so and and there was actually three delays. Yeah. So when the third one hit, yeah, I was like, I'm not going. Yeah. And and I just told the client, like, I'm bringing a DP. Uh so the next day I get a call from Cali. Her her team with Clarity Innovations is in Tampa for Soft Week, and she wants to know if we can come out and work with them. And it was like really informal. There was no like marketing team or anything. She kind of just uh was able to get us there under her uh budget for their marketing for their presence at South Week. And so we we just we were like, yeah, we'll go. We showed up two days later, we spent the whole day with the team interviewing the executives, just run and gun, no setups, just like cameras on the fly, audio on the fly. And um, and in hindsight, um the the team didn't really appreciate that we kind of backdoored the company's whole process, and so I then had to go through their whole onboarding process of like legal.

Vipul Bindra 9:15

So we were like, I was signing a contract like retro actively because you had already technically worked with them, and they're like, Hey, you have all this onboarding process you gotta do.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Yeah, that's what it was amazing because like whoa, like okay, I had to submit a bid, they didn't take it. There's a massive competitive process for the bid process, yeah. But then I was able to come in, do all this work, no bid, just they wanted to and then they had to retroactively onboard me. Yeah, so it was it was that that was like one of the biggest examples of like whoa, like just let go, like just let go, stop trying to control it because things will come to you, yeah.

Vipul Bindra 9:56

And I'm sure after, like you said, it didn't didn't get done on time. I'm sure the executives or whatever the team there also went, like, see, you get what you pay for. We probably picked a lower bid, and uh Jacob and his team could have done a better job. Sure, it was a higher bid, but I'm sure you would have done it in time, probably done a better job. So I think they also saw that probably, and they were like excited to work with you. And like you said, you had an insider person there too, who's there looking out for you.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yeah, yeah.

Vipul Bindra 10:25

So all good things for sure. But that's awesome, man. That's what I'm saying. You you let go and things came to you. I I've I've had that happen a few times since we took, but I mean, this happens all the time, where they'll call me and they'll say, Hey, we need something, and uh uh, you know, it just doesn't work out. And I'm like, hey, it doesn't seem like we're the right fit, you know, or or this is what it is, this is how I can help you based on what you're telling me, you know, what you're saying can't work or whatever. And then they say, Okay, thank you. And then, you know, you just go and you say, Okay, it didn't work out. And then for them to then come back, like, hey, you know, you were you were right. This is this is the way it's gonna be. So can you please help us? And I'm like, absolutely. You know, then you also don't have to have ego and say, No, I I told you, and now I'm not gonna work with you. I'm like, no, absolutely, yeah, of course. We are now we are in alignment, and it's okay if it took you a few days to go get other bids or talk to other people so you can come back and be in alignment with me. And if you align, now you agree, and then we're all happy, then let's let's let's do it. And uh, you know, I don't know. I I I don't mind like letting go and then letting them have their process, and some people don't come back, and that's okay, you know, they were not my people.

Serendipity, Airports, And A Backdoor Win

SPEAKER_01 11:33

So I find like one thing in order for that to happen, you have to have the time to be a subject matter expert. You have to have the time or like the respect and the space of them acknowledging you that you have something that you know what you're doing that and it's it's interesting because I've been able to to achieve that with clients, like especially nonprofits, because I come to them wanting to help. And so typically I consult for free, which gives me the foundation or the authority because I'm doing it for free, I have nothing to lose to say like you guys are making a big mistake by trying to do it this way. And I've gotten a lot of business just like trying to help people and then being able to uh consult them and say, like, hey, um you know, this is there was an example a couple of years ago where I think we w talked about this last time, they wanted they wanted two sets. I said it should be one. There was redundancy issues of like, what if you lose footage, you don't have a good DP monitoring and um and vice versa, you can consult them on spending more, on investing more, right? And but I think the the question for you that I have is when you're talking to a client, like when you are talking when you're talking to not a nonprofit, when you're when you're sitting with a an executive or a marketing department, how do you approach those conversations where and how do they evolve where you have the authority to give them advice that they deem valuable and they're like, oh, I should spend this, or oh, we shouldn't spend that. Like a lot of that is obviously relationships long-term, but is there a short-term conversation?

Vipul Bindra 13:39

You're right. No, there has to be, like you said, they have to acknowledge who you are and what you do for them, right? If you're just a videographer, then no, you cannot have that conversation and that relatability. But yes, if you're a production company owner or just in general, you are their partner, you're their video partner, then they have that respect. That can come from two ways either you having worked with them for years, or B, they already come from a referral or warm lead, like from a friend, where they're they know who you are. They're like, no, this person knows what they're doing, right? They help these brands or whatever. So it can happen immediately, but has to come as a I would say a warm lead or somewhere where they kind of know who you are. Because yeah, if they don't know you, then that respect isn't there. And then that will need to be built. But you're right, because it I at least approach conversations with very simply like, what is it that they need, right? And a lot of times what they'll tell me is not what they actually need, unless they are a marketing person that knows video production, and that is nice too. I I I I work with marketing manager who've worked at agencies that are like, yeah, I know we need an art director, we need a DP, we need a producer, I need this, this, this, right? So it makes it a lot easy, like, oh, but our budget is only this. So what do we eliminate? Point is those ones are easy, but those are not everywhere. Most of them, they don't understand our process. They're just like, hey, I need a uh like I need a series of videos, or I need a video, and and and then this is what I need. Like, what's the budget? Or sometimes they don't even have a budget. And then that's where you come in. And I generally just approach the conversation with like genuineness to help them. It's like, okay, yeah, you're you've obviously they want to talk to me. You know, usually they've approached me. So I'm like, let's talk. And then it's just like figuring out, and then usually you start to find clues, you know. So, what do you want to do? What platform do you want to put it on? What's the goal? What's the timeline? You know, uh, what's the budget? And then let's say they say they have no budget, then like, do you have a reference video that you've done in the past or you that you liked that you were like, we want to do something like that? Because then I can look at that video and I can get an idea that I'm like, hey, by the way, that video looks like it has a budget of at least you know six figures. You're looking about hundred, hundred, to hundred fifty grand. Is that within your budget? Because you'll know few fat fast, like, yeah, that's that's what we're thinking of. They won't flinch, or they're like, oh wow, it costs that much. Then you know, then you can go, hey, here's a lower up tier option we can offer you. Because it's not like we can't help them. It's just like, you know, we can we can get there 90% there, but we can do this, this, this to get there. Or if they don't flinch at that number, then you're like, okay, yeah, they they understand what this, or at least if they know they don't understand they can get there to the right numbers. Then we can talk about okay, so this is how many shoot days we can do it in, this is the number of crew. Do you think you'll be able to arrange what you need to arrange for us in those days? And they can go yes, and they're low. No, then I'm like, okay, then we need to add more to the budget because we're gonna need to add a couple more shoot days. What I'm saying is it sounds silly, but they usually will give the answers. You have to dig and you have to dig and dig and dig, and uh, it's easier when you know them, but even if you know know them, as long as you approach it with a point that I'm trying to help you, right? Because at the end, you're not trying to take advantage of them or anything, you're just trying to literally figure out the scope of the project. The easier you can get that, sometimes it's 30 seconds in, they already know, they give you the scope. I don't need to elongate this meeting and waste their time just to show that I'm an expert. I hope that makes sense. If they give me what I need, I have the full scope, I know what I need to do. We can recently had a$60,000 project that I closed. Meeting didn't even go 30 seconds. I'm not joking. Client called me. What do you need? Do you need this? What's the budget? This is the budget. How many shoot days? This is the number of shoe days. Can you do it, Vipple? Yes, absolutely. Done. Sign, I'm sending you the contract. I had the easiest contract to write for me too, because it's like they told me what they want. So here's the scope. And obviously, we can go a little outside, you know, there's wiggle rooms, but easiest meeting. But sometimes you have to take two, three meetings, right? You have to go back over and over to define the scope because they're like, oh, it'd be nice to do headshots that day. And I'm like, okay, now that's the new thing with scope. Let's add that. So now we're adding photography to it. That wasn't part of the thing at all. And I think that's where it can be a long process to get there. But once you work with a client over and over again, it just only gets easier and easier. I hope that makes sense. I do want to ask a question from Mario. You had an opportunity recently to come to a meeting with me. Now I I know it wasn't a sales type of meeting, it was still like a pre-production meeting. What do you think about it? Do you have any feedback or input?

Subject-Matter Authority With Clients

Mario Rangel 18:03

Well, uh, we have already worked with this client. Well, for more than more than me. I work with them like two times already. Uh and I think they they really are a great client. They're really uh good to work with. Um they listen, they listen to us, they listen to you. So I think the the the meeting went great. Um and I think they they help us know what uh as much as they can, obviously. They help us understand what what what is the project about what what is the video that we are doing and they make our our job uh easier to do. Um yeah.

Vipul Bindra 18:52

Do you think the meeting meant the the way we wanted it to go? That's the main thing. I wanted to go like the direction of the meeting and how we approached getting to where we needed to go. Because we needed to understand the scope of the work, right? So what do you think about that?

Mario Rangel 19:06

No, I I think it went great. It was like we understand everything that we that they wanted, like in 30 minutes. I think. Yeah, I think that and yeah, and I think uh and now we are shooting next week, we already know what they want. And it's a big I think it's a big project, right? It's a big scope.

Vipul Bindra 19:24

Yeah, it's about 50, 50 ish grand.

Mario Rangel 19:26

So yeah, yeah, so so but but in general, I think uh in just 30 minutes we understand what they wanted and yeah, and we're ready to to to make it happen, right?

Vipul Bindra 19:37

To make it real. There you go. So uh that's uh again, and like I said, it's just and I was so glad you were there. Helped me, you know. I was I brought her him and Julie, I was like, so you know, handling production with me and then have handling the post-production with me. I want everyone to be here, so we're all on the same page. And I was surprised I had marked an hour for the meeting. 30 minutes later, we were done because it was so easy. We approached him. I was just like, Do you have a reference video? Same thing. Because we had already signed the contract at this point. I kind of understood what they wanted, but I had not seen a reference video. And they were like, Well, we don't have one. Actually, we do. You know, it's amazing. You're just asking that. We were like, This would be nice. And I was like, Okay, do you have another one? And then she showed me another one. I was like, okay, here's what we can do. Current scope of work, we cannot do that. This is too low quality. How about we merge the two? We can make it, you know, interviews like this, but we can do B-roll like this. I can do it in the current scope of work, same budget, not changing anything. And the client was like, Yeah, that sounds awesome. So it made it a lot easier, but I had to ask for that. They they didn't even think about you know reference videos or anything like that. Uh, so it's I think like that. I don't know if that answers what you were thinking looking for. Uh, it's just more like I don't know, approach it from a friendly standpoint, is what I try to do. Now, not all clients are like that. There's some type A personalities, that's where it gets difficult, and that's where I have to go. Is this the client the right fit for me? And it depends on the project. Sometimes the project is so awesome that it's worth dealing with a personality, but sometimes it's like, eh, I don't know. And that's where you if you have the time to get out and let somebody else have a have a go at it.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yeah, and case in point, you know, the the job that I let them have. I I think they did great, but at the same time, it it would have been a monster of a project.

Vipul Bindra 21:23

Yeah, absolutely. 250 grand is no money to, you know, to you know, not look at like I mean, that's a huge amount of revenue to add to to the money. I mean, uh, so yeah, I mean, but again, like you said, if no point going back and and being disappointed about it, because it sounds like you did the best that you could with the with the project parameters that were given. And if they didn't see it, they didn't see it doesn't mean they didn't see in the future, though maybe you'll get way more opportunities now because they've seen what the other people can do and what you can do. And that's why I I like to tell people like there's no competition, there's so much work. In video production. There's so many companies, and more and more need more and more content. I think it's just about showcasing what you can do, continuously evolving yourself and doing the best. And it doesn't matter what anyone else else is doing. Clients will just automatically notice. Like you said, they did work with you, they worked with them. Now they know how who works and what the processes are and how easy or difficult it is to work with whoever. And then the next time it'll be very easy for them to pick who they want to go with, right? And um, and I'm I'm pretty sure you did an amazing job that next time they won't hesitate to give you the RFP or whatever, right? Yeah. And if not, I'm sure you won't lose sleep over it.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

No, no, yeah. And you know, I mean, like, I have this theory that we have it, we have expenses, like it's like car your car, your mortgage, your health, your children, like you have these expenses. And I just it it really hasn't changed since we first met years ago. And all the freelancers and you know, subcontractors that I've met, I just feel like whatever our expenses, we get that we get that work. Like we don't have to worry, we'll be covered, you know, and having faith in that that you'll be provided for.

Vipul Bindra 23:22

It's like it's very important because you know you've been doing this long enough, and that's the trade of the business. I think I'm sure at some point you think about it. I know I do. I'm like, you know, like I'm used to making so much, but then earlier this year, for example, February was a very slow month for me, uh, which is not normal for me. Like, you know, uh, but I think it was the economy or whatever. At least that's what I'm saying. Because I I did, but you know, it came the first week, and I'm like, I have no work, that makes no sense, you know. So I picked up the phone, I called a few other production company owners I know, and they were like, Yeah, it's slow. So I was like, okay. First of all, it's not just me. I didn't do something wrong. And then you could go back and it's like, okay, so let me go back and now revisit uh what I can do here. Uh, because clearly, tariffs, economy change, whatever, people are worried, my clients are not spending money. Reshot a few. They're like, Yeah, we're just holding off right now, we'll get back to you. So I'm like, okay, now the it's out of my control situation. I can sit here and panic, or I could just have faith. And I I don't know, I talked with Julie when she was on the podcast. It was like, so I can do two things. I can be scared, I can quit, I can back up, or I'm gonna do what Bendra would do. I'm gonna double down. I'm like, oh, economy's slow, let's let's go add it him, let's acquire more equipment, let's go done. And I know other people think this is silly, but I'm like, no, I am not gonna quit. I'm not gonna worry. And look, it was uh February and March, and and we picked up smaller projects that normally I would pass off. I was like, okay, so you needed something smaller, let's go do it. And Mario helped me in a bunch of them, and we went out and we actually uh, you know, so like you said, there was enough work, bills were paid, everyone's good. Uh, it wasn't the big massive projects, and come April, like bam, it was it's been crazy. I haven't had day off, you know, for for months. So you never know. What I'm saying is uh I could look at that and blame a billion things for why, you know, I don't have work. And I was like, I can't control the economy, I can't control my clients, and it's not like if it I can control what I do, and if clearly they're not mad at me, there's uh you know, uncertain about the situation and the economy. And I'm like, sure, but that doesn't mean the small company stops shooting, right? So I'm like, well, they have projects, let's go do that, and they want to work with me. Sure, the budgets may not be the highest, you know. We're working three to five to six K videos, that's okay. You know, we can give them huge value because now they get all this, right? For for not much money, and uh, we had work, so you know, we were able to pay our bills. So I think uh like you said, it's just a way of approaching it. You can approach it from a sense of negativity, or you can approach it from a sense of positivity, and because humps will always happen in business. That's just nature of business. Uh, I'm sure, and I know you mentioned this on the last season. There was time where you didn't have work for what, six months, and then the six months was amazing. You killed it. You know, that's just nature of business. You can get sit there and and uh and look that six months go panic, but then you know, you have to look at the bigger picture, like no, we killed it the six months. It's okay, like it's nature of the business. We cannot take this time to uh which I want to jump into next, go into look into government contracts or whatever you're trying to do to to to expand your business and not look at it from the standpoint of why don't we have so much work? Because that happens, you know, that's this nature of doing business. So coming to that, I want to I would I would love people to know, follow up, because I know that's what last time we talked, that's what you're trying to do, trying to get more government contracts, trying to get in into those systems and and processes or whatever to be able to get those. Did you have any luck? Did you were you able to close any?

Slow Months, Faith, And Pivoting Strategy

SPEAKER_01 26:50

No. So the only thing that has come out of applying for government contracts is a lot of spam mail from people who want my business. Uh, once you're registered in the SAM system, which is the procurement system, they have a lot. They they they actually procure contracts on a lot of different platforms, but Sam is the big one. Uh and once I was registered, oh my gosh, I have just been solicited by hundreds and hundreds of uh you know other yeah, because your email becomes public then, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything everything becomes public. But um I did submit so between now and the last time we spoke, I submit, I did put in two proposals. They were requests for proposals, which is it's that's kind of the final stage. And um, because you can have like requests for quote, you can have requests for information, you can have there's a lot of different stages in the process where what you know the government kind of goes through before they actually put out a request uh for a proposal or or whatever. And so we did put in two packages. They they typically take like me like three or four full days to put together, just like really looking at what is the job, what are what are the deliverables, what's the crew gonna be, how much time, logistics, making sure you're because it is very easy to um lose money on government contracts. A lot of people do it, and then and then they once they realize the numbers aren't right, they they try to back up the product quality, and then and then the government gets a really lackluster product. So I I don't want to be like that. So I try to try to really look at the proposal and all the deliverables and make sure like I'm on the number. And so I take my time and it takes time. And so we submitted for a couple of cool projects we didn't we didn't hear back, but sometimes it's crazy. Like I looked at one of the contracts, and one of them has been they've been soliciting proposals for almost a full year, and basically, like it's their prerogative. They they'll look at oh, okay, we got 30 companies that submitted this. We don't like any of them, so we're gonna keep going. Let's put it out again. And so it's like really hard, uh, and you don't know what they're doing on their end, or you know, sometimes administration lacks the funding for the human resources, so there's just a lot of factors that go into it.

Vipul Bindra 29:35

Did that affect you in any way? I know uh tariffs were a factor for my clients, like backing up a little bit. Uh, do uh any of this economy, and I know doge was a thing like cut cutting government funding and spending and all that. Did do you think that was any factor towards any of these, or no?

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Yeah, for sure. I think what one of the proposals I put in was like directly impacted. And I was like, how are they putting out a proposal right now? Like I just saw on the news, like their resources got cut. Like, this doesn't make any sense.

Vipul Bindra 30:07

So that probably was. It was supposed to be out, but then their resources got cut, so it's just in the middle of limbo. What range are these types of RFPs? So the ones that you submitted through the system, what is the kind of like the realistic range that people can expect from?

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Yeah, so you can do a lot of research, it's great. Like you can go on, I believe it's sam.gov and you can look at the awards, you can look through all these people that were awarded. So I try to do a little bit of research and it's it's interesting. Well, you know, I I really do feel like a lot of these uh these contract awards are done as a long-term conversation where you have access to these people and like you really know what they want, specifically in like you really refine your number. So it's it's hard to look at a proposal and be like, oh yeah, this number is gonna, it's it's gonna be in this range. Um, it's it's really hard to like guess that. I think you have to be in conversation with them and really like just talk about the project long term and then arrive at a number, and then they put out the request for proposal and and then the numbers already established. Makes sense. But um, you know, we submitted one. It was uh it was a really cool one in uh kind of Arizona around that uh area for the uh it's uh D I N E the I believe it's Danay, the tribe. It's it's it's uh it's um Navajo, but it the proper uh term is is Danay, I believe. And uh for forgive me if I'm wrong, but it was a federal contract to to produce a a completely unbiased story and heritage of that people. Oh wow, so the government was paying for a filmmaking company to go in and and interview elders, and then like they could they could literally slander the government if they wanted, they could tell the story they the way they wanted, and the government would actually be able not to have a say or uh that's a pretty cool project. Yeah, so we applied for that one in the scope. I think I arrived at they were like a compet they they said a competitive bid would would have been around 50,000. And I was like, there's I there's no way I can, but I wanted it, so I think I put in for like 7580. That's it.

Vipul Bindra 32:38

How many days were you thinking you'd spend there getting that content?

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Well, the scope was big. So, like, first of all, that they wanted pre-production, they wanted you to meet with elders, they wanted you before you even film anything. Before you even film anything, they wanted you there speaking with them, getting to know them. They wanted um, they wanted at least two shoot days in uh at separate ends of the year, so to cover seasons. So that's like logistically, that's a flights in and out, flights in and out, how much crew. And so I was really trying to do it bare bones, but um it's just so ultimately what they were looking for was somebody who was like in the city.

Vipul Bindra 33:17

Who could just they wouldn't have the travel expense or whatever, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

The problem is is like if there's not a good video storytelling company in the city, that project is just gonna get recycled again. Yeah, until until they up their price and they can get somebody that can actually do it, yeah.

Vipul Bindra 33:32

Yeah, that's the yeah, that's issue with I guess government contracts is it's not like a private con uh corporation where they can immediately make that change if they want to. They can see that, hey, this isn't working out. Because that's do see that a lot happens in corporate too, where they're like, no, we want somebody local because they don't want to pay for travel or whatever. But then immediately they apply and then they'll see the type of bids they're getting and then they go, okay, maybe we need to expand the scope. But they can do that sooner than you know, like you said, may take them government a while to do that. Uh so interesting. So, where has your most of your business been coming from? Just past clients, referrals, Google?

Government Contracts: Reality Check

SPEAKER_01 34:09

So just past clients, um, letting them take the relationship where they want, and just trying to be more valuable to them. And and like I've had clients where I'm like, there's they've they have a good product from us, they don't need more from us. And this is a good relationship. And then and then they come to me and they're like, hey, we have something totally different, you're the right person. And so, you know, we end up doing instead of 50,000, we end up doing a hundred thousand with that client. And so, and like part of me does not like getting a majority of you know our revenue from three to five people. It's uncomfortable because it could go away at any time. Yeah, but it goes just back to the whole like have faith that the business will be there. Like, I've never let I've never been let down. If you look at you know, the seasons over the last four or five years, it's like, okay, that person came in out of nowhere, that person came in out of nowhere. Like, I never talked to that client before, they approached me, and it's just uh always happens.

Vipul Bindra 35:25

So exactly. Yeah, you never know, but that is the key. Most people I know that are successful with video, the truth is yes, majority of their business comes from under 10 clients, you know, sometimes under five clients, like you said, that is paying majority of the bills. The truth is uh chances of finding, you know, 30, 50 new clients every month is just unrealistic. So you do have one-off clients that come and go, right? But majority of the income is those clients that love working with you and they constantly have need for video, and you are the company that is for them, right? But there is a risk factor, obviously, anytime you do that, that any one of them could pull out any minute, and you're now that's a big chunk of hold that you know is left, you know, there. But the the truth is that's just how it is. I I don't know video people who are I'm talking doing good numbers. Uh it's different when you're, you know, under 100K or whatever. But when you're over six figures, that's usually how it is. I'm saying most people I talk to, they're like, yeah, this is my agency, this is my people. I do that, they just send me, and it's this just comes, right? And then that doesn't mean you don't do outreach, that doesn't mean you should need reach new clients, uh, because some of them do get replaced, you know, over time. But it's just how I guess the nature of the the beast, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Yeah, and you know, case in point, I I I don't remember if we covered this last time, but my the first biggest client that I had, which over three years was probably like I don't know, 150 to 200 in revenue. Like after three years, they just cold turkey cut me off. And you're like, uh, what are we gonna do?

Vipul Bindra 37:01

Because you're relying on that revenue, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Yeah, and it's like, dang, what if we had that revenue?

Vipul Bindra 37:06

Yeah, it's the agency you're talking about, right? I think you had an agency that was giving you that much work, that, or it's a different company.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

It was a construction company that we did uh incentive trips for. They we it was amazing. We would we would uh we went to Costa Rica with them, we went to the uh where do we go? Texas, Austin, um just Colorado, like we kind of went everywhere with these guys for their incentive trips and sales training trips for their staff, and we would make everything look real sexy. Um and uh yeah, they were a huge massive chunk of our business for the first three years, and then losing them was like, oh my gosh, like it was it's honestly been super hard to let go. Like I I um I keep I try to keep in contact with a lot of them and just like hey, how are you doing, or keep up with birthdays and stuff like that, uh, and just under just understanding that video production is not a part of their business development anymore or right now.

Vipul Bindra 38:13

So doesn't mean it won't be in the future, right? Right, exactly. Yeah, it's good to not burn bridges or you know, lose touch because you never know. You never know. And and and that's the thing about this business, yeah. 100%. And or if they even don't directly come, they may ever send you a referral or something, some other great opportunity, you know. So yeah, it's really nice of you to keep touch, you know.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

On that note, I think one of the most important things is people. If you have a good relationship with somebody, like take care of that relationship. It doesn't matter how low they you think they are in the company, it does not matter. The way that I got that that contract that really launched my business was I did event marketing for the ad agency here in or in Orlando, and on one of the jobs, she was like brand new. She was at sort of the bottom of the totem pole, very new. I was always nice to her. And then uh four years later, she had all the experience she needed. She got acquired by another company, and she called me first.

Vipul Bindra 39:22

Yeah, because you were kind to her and you built a good relationship. Yeah, exactly. People grow with you. That's the that's why like people say, you know, is college worth it, film school. I'm like, not usually for skills, but it's good for networking because those people are gonna grow with you. Guess what? Everyone you graduate, not everyone obviously gives into the industry, but most of them that do, uh, they're gonna know you, right? You network and they're gonna take you with you. So even if a few of you get successful, either marketing managers here or directors here in some film company or whatever, at the end of the day, they can take you with them, right? And and that's a huge advantage, the the value of networking. Uh, because like I said, you never know what opportunities it's gonna create. Um, so that's awesome. Talk about gear. I know last time we talked, you were literally about to get on a flight to DC to get combo stents. It still amazes me, you know. That's like one of the topics, like but I mean it made sense. Like you said, you you got them on a deal, uh, right? But but point is, yeah, you were gonna literally get on a flight, go get some equipment, and drive it down. So, how did that go? And have you been, you know, acquiring more gear?

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah, so it went good. Drive sucked, but I did it in record time. Uh did not get pulled over, you know. Yeah, thank the Lord. But uh made it made it back down safely. I think I was like back in Orlando 12 hours later. That's crazy, yeah, to think about. Yeah. With with all the gear. Um what old did you get again?

Vipul Bindra 40:48

Do you remember?

SPEAKER_01 40:49

Yeah, so I pulled I I brought down like four C stands. One of them needs a lot of WD 40 or is just trash. Yeah, that's what you get with auctions. Yeah. Uh I got two uh two combo. I got a a junior roller. Uh I got a big 12 by 12 with um I still haven't even uh popped that open. It has uh two different types of diffusion in it. And yeah, since since that, and there's other gear I just can't remember, but since getting that, I have I haven't used any of it. Told you.

Vipul Bindra 41:33

So what cameras are you using now?

SPEAKER_01 41:37

So well, we just got back from a job where we actually put our two FS7s to use, which was great, and uh A7 IV and EOS R6 and GH5, the trustee of the H5. Still still in deployment.

Vipul Bindra 41:52

That's the part I love the GH5. And that's what I tell people, you know. Uh again, gear matters, but it also doesn't matter in a way that you know, GH5 made me a lot of money back when I started the company, 2018, I think, an early part of 2019. Um, but that doesn't mean the camera was bad. I just wanted autofocus over to the C200. And look at you in 2025, still deploying the camera and it's still making you money. So you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

I mean, so for the for what we did with it was just really long roll times and just like locked off in the corner. Um the the full frame sensors, we would we would get, you know, our b-roll shots are you know seven to fifteen second takes, but then the gh5 could catch whatever, just just because the roll, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

And then uh the fs sevens, honestly, I'm just romantic about them. Um, I can use whatever cameras, but I like I wanna I want to break them.

Vipul Bindra 42:51

Like I just want to use them until they're but they're still used everywhere because before the FX6 got popular, that's what yeah was used everywhere, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Yeah, so and and we like I used them with uh uh G Masters, and like it's just beautiful, it's just great. So we have to go through, we're gonna play with the colors, and yeah, I mean, as long as the colors and everything comes out good, I'll can I'll continue to use the FS7s.

Vipul Bindra 43:17

Yeah, that's pretty good. So basically, everything you were using is working great. Everything new you acquired, or technically new to you from auction, has not been used. That's kind of crazy to me to think about, right? Yeah, it is. Uh but uh so did you hold that idea? I know you said you wanted to put together a van too. Are you still doing that, or is that idea on hold since you're not really using any of this?

Referrals, Key Clients, And Risk Concentration

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Yeah, so like stuff. Financially, uh, my wife she has I think a year left on her car. And so, like, after that, it's just the house, just the mortgage. And so I could totally pull the trigger on a truck or whatever right now, van. But um, just wanting to be like, well, first of all, I don't need it, I don't have clients that are like, hey, We need a grip package, it needs to come from you, or just doesn't make sense. Yeah. So I'm not rushing to make that investment just yet, but I do have a feeling that either this year or uh next year, um the the the the vehicle write-off is gonna make a lot of sense.

Vipul Bindra 44:18

Yeah, if you're making enough money, that's the other part of it. Obviously, you don't want to buy things just to buy it, but if it does make sense, the write-off, because you know, you if it's a business expense, you can write off pretty much the whole thing. So that would be a huge benefit, you know, tax-wise too. Um so yeah, I mean there's ways to look at it, but at the same time, to be honest, same thing. I deployed the van January 1st this year. It's been very helpful. But the thing is, can I define straight up that, oh, by adding this van, I got additional revenue? No, I think I got like a couple of jobs, I would say, where the van was the reason they hired me, right? Uh, but those were small jobs, they made not much difference to the overall revenue. I'm saying the real jobs that actually paid the bills, none of them cared if I had the van. Now, yes, has it been deployed for us and we've been enjoying it, yes, but it's a personal thing. I hope that makes sense. There's no justification to financials for having the van, right? But the there's justification to how it may it made my life easy, not having to spend a whole day prepping and packing and then unpacking and reprepping, and and same thing for hiring people like uh Mario to come on set and where he's able to, you know, easily pull one card off, do the whole shoot without having to again bags after bags after bags. So there's there's value, but the value is in dollars, if that makes sense. It may be more time and ease of use, right? Would you agree? Has the van been a good help or no?

Mario Rangel 45:44

Because it makes it um it makes every break is uh easier to to shoot like very convenient. And I and the at the end, uh it reduces the time like for setup. And I think that's valuable time that you can spend like in other more important stuff, like I don't know, uh getting another client, being on calls, right? Yeah, like that. Facts.

Vipul Bindra 46:09

Also, I sometimes just call him just so I make sure he doesn't it's too easy. No, I'm just kidding. No, he that's a good value, and I I want you to listen from a third party because he has no intention, no incentive to say, you know, something great. It's just that somebody I've hired as a freelancer being able to use it. I think it just makes it easier. Not that it was hard in the past, like you do now, right? Bringing cases, but now uh the thing happens with cases is people go, which case does this go in? Where does it go? Which is a lot easier, like it's right there, right? Uh, everything has a space there, so it makes it a lot easier to point it out. Or once, like in 10 minutes, I could show you what goes where. Do you it's not a big learning curve, but like I said, could I put dollars on it? Was it worth it? Because the van was 60 grand. I think it was at least 10, 20 grand to upfit it. So have I gained 80 grand of value? Probably not, you know. I could maybe say five grand of that was directly like revenue was responsible from the van. It's not worth it, but it's worth it the other way. So if you can justify that, like, hey, will it be easier? The good thing is in the past, I would have to know if you need a combo stand, right? I have to know, like, if you need a combo, sure, I'm bringing my combo. Now it's like we have the combo the whole time. Do we need it for most jobs? No, right? But here we are. We want to do a menace arm rig or a big boom arm rig, right? We're doing back here. We can. We don't have to tell the client, oh well, we didn't plan for it. I hope that makes sense. So, yeah, I don't know. Uh, but obviously you have to see if you can justify that or not.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Yeah, I like so the way I approach my company and my clients, like, I I don't go through any marketing companies and I've defined my niche. So the plan is I get referrals within my niche without having to go through any uh companies or any other agencies. And so that allows me to decide what I want to bring to the table and how I want to do it, how I want to execute it, and ultimately be be responsible and a stakeholder for the end result. And because of that, I uh I can relate to you in that like I brought the FS7s because I wanted to, I brought the GH5 because I wanted to, I brought the Sackler because I wanted to, I you know, bought a lot of pelicans because I wanted to, because I felt like it's what helped me get the job done uh safely, efficiently, and and and uh so I think there is like I'm lucky because I have that luxury to make those decisions for myself, but um you know, just going back to you with a van. Me and my uh DP, we drove down in two cars filled with gear, two cars, right? Because we couldn't fit it in one and then um you know we we had to set up our carts because we have to break them down to fit in the the cars, they're not vans, right? Yeah, so we hit so setup time on carts, restocking gear on carts, rolling it into the hotel, out of the hotel, on location, off location, back into a car, right? And so uh that's a lot of time, it's a lot of bending over. And you know, if I was doing to be honest with you, if I was doing two of those a month, I'd be very tired. I would.

Vipul Bindra 49:37

Because like if it's a lot of work, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

We did a week, it was a week of that job, and um, I could not do that like back to back, or I couldn't do two of those. I could probably get by doing two of those a month, but um having you know, making an investment for myself, for my DP, for my crew is what you're talking about. Yeah, exactly. That's what you're talking, and then the other thing is like you're adding more value because you're saying to all your clients, hey, I have I have all this stuff in my car, and that's just value added to you. That's why you want to work with me next time because I bring this stuff.

Gear Talk: Old Workhorses And New Toys

Vipul Bindra 50:12

But here's the thing none I can I can equally because I've been tracking. That's what's the whole thing getting January 1st. I can tell you none of the clients signed me up for that. Now, the the value was there, like you said, the value added on that, saving that all that time, breaking down the carts, putting them back up, loading true value. Uh obviously, you I don't know how to put a dollar number on that, right? It would just have to be hours save times what I'm paying average or whatever. Uh having calculated that. But I can directly tell you not a single person outside of the two's jobs hired me because I had the van or cared. Because even if I mentioned, yeah, we got cool van, and I was like, awesome, yeah. Then they move on because they've already hired me. If they're reaching out to me, we're talking about the project, they've already hired me. Not a single person at all cared about the van. Outside of, here's the funny thing, other filmmakers. They learned about it, but it's cool. Now, yes, was has the van been helpful? Absolutely, like I said, saving my back, very helpful, but direct correlation to client, like where I can say, Oh, I have this van, you're all set. They don't care, they already know that. Um, you know, and and and um I don't know. I I haven't been able to directly correlate to that. Um, so it's I think more of a ease of use and efficiency gain than a financial gain. Um, like I said, am I regretting it? No, I'm saying I wouldn't change a thing because that's what I wanted. I wanted to have everything out of hair somewhere for it to go. Uh so that helps. Uh, but also being able to bring it to all the shoots, like Chicago shoot, it was so awesome. I know we mentioned it multiple times, but being able to send Mario and Jared to just drive it all the way to Chicago, it's so easier. That I got on a plane with literally nothing but a carry-on on me. And I'm like, this is incredible. Like, dude, not even have a backpack. I'm talking like, you know, usually have a backpack, a carry-on, a couple of check bags. Oh, yeah. And and then you always bring lower tier gear because you know, not lower tier, but smaller gear for travel. And here I am, I'm like, you're telling me this is all I have? Uh you know, like uh Emmanuel was talking about. We were we were a little disappointed. We were put on Frontier. Normally I would not be happy, but then I was like, you know what? It doesn't matter. I have no check back, I have nothing. We just walked on the plane, put the carry on, sit down, chill, you know. Like, I don't, I don't know. Life was um it was nice. I'm sure it wasn't the greatest for these guys who had to drive 20 hours. And like you said, once we account for hotel time or whatever, 30 hours. Uh, but you know, uh, that's the advantage though. That the advantage we had there was we were familiar with all the gear. We opened the you know, the van and was like, everything's right here, everything's familiar, we know where everything goes, it's our gear. The cost is also cheaper. Because if you were you went to rent that half, and I say half, I mean it's probably way more now. Like you said, six, seven hundred thousand dollars worth of gear, it would be a lot of money to to to rent. So so there was there was a benefit, I'm saying, to the van. But again, it wasn't a cost benefit. I didn't get paid more for having the van or sending the van there or whatever. I hope that makes sense. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

Uh, I don't know yet, and I guess I I can't wait to find out in a year or two if you do it, and you you can cost benefit analysis that so yeah, the way that the way that I've I've kind of built my company because you're right, you have, and it's interesting because I think we've built our companies in different ways, and we have, you know, I think you have more successful ways than I do, and I do think there's things that I can share that will help you. So, like one of those is I kind of I kind of like for it's interesting. I have different discussions with my clients retroactively. So for instance, they say I'll have clients say, Hey, I uh noticed that the invoice um changed for this, like last year over year, it looks like uh a little bit more under this line item, under production or under post-production. And then I'll explain whatever, like I'll explain, okay, good. Um, I didn't know, I just wanted to know, just wanted to make sure there wasn't a mistake, or we're all good. But what's interesting is like I just do my best to kind of cover the overarching cost of my assets or whatever. So when I make a new investment, so like the van or whatever, I will then create an averaged-out cost and just our package overall. So the package goes up, you know, the day rate goes up. Um and you're the way I see it is is for me, for most of my work, you're buying the company for a day. You're buying the company for a week.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

And so we bring the assets, we bring the resources, the crew. Um, I will I will uh talk with a client and advocate for maybe more crew, like things that are bigger line items, but as far as the the the company acquisition for a day, I there it's like a non-negotiable, right? It's like, hey, you're acquiring director's monitors or my like seven different lighting packages, and I'm gonna choose what is gonna serve us the best, right? Um no, that totally makes sense because that is the value that you provide. But what's interesting is that I've had clients like because you say, like, oh, cool, you know, you show up on set and clients are like, oh, that's a really cool van, or that's it, that's the extent of it. But what's the way I've had those conversations of like my investments, clients bringing up my investments is like, oh, in the invoice, it's like, oh, I could you explain what goes into production? It's like, yeah, this, this, this, this. And then they're like, Oh, okay, cool, I'm good with that. And that's how I feel that appreciation for my investments that I make.

Vipul Bindra 55:57

Makes sense. See, I haven't had that client, and maybe that's the the difference of clientele, uh, because I I don't have I don't give uh first of all, there's two types of clients a service, right? One is end clients, uh, that's where I make the majority of my money. The second is um either agencies, or I'll say, even though it could be a third element, but helping other friends or other production companies, that's more like a minor thing, but I'll I'll lump it together. When I'm working with sure agencies or other production companies or my friends, then yes, equipment's a big talk. Like, hey, we want to use two FX6s, we can use two FX3s, sure, we'll use your 1200X or your 600X, whatever. I'm like, sure, whatever. Here's the price, pay it. But it's the lowest chunk. I make the lowest money when I do that. Like you, for example, hired me. Then yeah, we could talk about gear, what we're gonna use, the van as an asset for probably hiring me or whatever. But where I make the biggest chunk of money, we don't talk about that. Like I said, like for example, the meeting that Mario was talking about, the client called me. Like they said, like, hey, we want this. And I was like, you know how much this costs, so what's the budget? Because you know, whoever says the first number is the one who loses, right? And and and again, I I I don't want to go too deep into the psychology of it, but my thing is I want to know, and and this isn't a new client, they know how much production costs. And they they themselves were like, Well, yeah, this is how much this costs, this is gonna be about this much, so it's gonna come out to this much. And I was like, Well, then there you go. That's the number. Can you do it? I did not say anything, right? I am literally asking them, and they said, Yes. And I now, of course, I'm not just arbitrarily coming in my brain. I'm going, can I do this for the number they said? How can I execute? Can I do that? And I'm like, a little tight, a little hair, good, but yes, I can make that happen. And then that they we basically I'm like, so that's good. Can I send you a proposal? They're like, Yeah, we can work with that. And I sent the proposal in. Life couldn't be any simpler, easiest thing ever. And that's very common for me because uh what I'm trying to say is there's no value. Then I the proposal did not at one point say uh pre-production, production, post-production. That's how I did in 2018. I've I left that a long time ago. The only thing I define in the contract is minimums. Like, hey, you're gonna have minimum three production days, you're gonna have three-person crew, and you will have three cameras, just something so that there's a bare minimum for them, they can justify like what they're signing. Like they will have this. But I'm not doing that. That's not why you hire Bendra. I'm gonna show up with six cameras and six crew members, and we're gonna be there for six hours, uh, six days. That's why I told my clients when they called, they were like, you know, um, they were like, hey, I just want to understand this because they do have, you know, when they were about to sign, I was like, hey, just so you know, this is the bare minimum you're gonna get, right? You know me. Every time I show up, I show up with an extra camera or extra person. So this is the bare minimum you're gonna get. That's what you're signing with me. But just so you know, next two months, you will basically have full access to my company. And you know, within reason, we're not gonna say no to you. And they know that because you know you have a relationship, I wouldn't do this with a new client. Right. And they were like, absolutely, yeah, it makes sense. Signed. Easiest thing ever, right? Invoice sent, payment received. Uh, so point I'm trying to make is at no point was van a factor, equipment a factor, what camera was a factor, the number of crew was a factor. And honestly, what I told them, it sounds funny. If I told you, hey, give me 60 grand for three shoot days with three part people with three cameras, you would literally look at it and be like, uh, what? No, thank you. Right? That sounds crazy, right? But that's not what they actually bought. What they bought is access to my entire team, my post-production team, pre-production, and days and days. If they call me, I'm on call. And not just them, there's multiple projects happening. So if they I I literally told her, I was like, hey, do not go by this. You tell me the day you need me, one of us is gonna be there, you know, to get that little thing because it's a little project over a long time. It's like if we need to get this tiny thing, we're gonna be there. I'm 30 minutes away. I just need a 30-minute notice. And even if I'm not in town, because I'm about to head to you know, Missouri, uh, I'm gonna send Mario. Or if Mario's not available, I'm gonna get another person, right? I have enough chain of people to call, but they're gonna get someone there for the 30 minutes that they need to capture whatever they need to capture. And that's that's why they pay me the money, right? I mean, I know exactly what you were saying, but I'm saying at no point did what I say, rather, I'm saying it's funny. I was like, if they compare this code to anyone else with the price point, it looks stupid. It makes no sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:11

Well, and I want to say, you know, there's a way that it's like a little ah, was it uh is either the future or Blair Ends? Uh, I don't know if you're familiar with those two, but they they go over a lot of sales proposals, yeah.

Vipul Bindra 1:00:27

Chris Dow, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

Yeah, Chris Dough.

The Van Debate: Value Vs. Vanity

SPEAKER_01 1:00:29

But um, there was an interesting, I picked it up years ago, and it was like, what is, you know, you take a job or you give you submit a proposal, but what is the amount of money where they your client calls you at one in the morning, you look at your phone, and you see your client's name. What is the amount of money where you're gonna pick up the phone or hang up the phone or you're gonna go, hey, how you doing? What what what can I do for you? And that is that's a that's a great self-check for yourself because I think we we we have different experiences, we have different backgrounds, we have different uh resources available to us, insights, wisdom around what we do. And that's what obviously the the client is paying for, right? They're paying for all that, that access, right? And so they do call, they do have questions. It's like Saturday at noon, they're in the middle of an event, they want to talk to you now. And so when they when they call you and you see that phone, there it has to be a number, yeah, right? Because it it's like I've had I've had clients that are like, hey, DP rate, one day, 1500 bucks, and I'm like, yeah, cool, but I also know that you call at 9 p.m. or I know that you call twice a week leading up to the thing, and it's not worth it. I don't, I won't take it. Exactly.

Vipul Bindra 1:01:55

It's one thing if you just show up, do the job, you leave, but versus the amount of hours you're spending on it. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

Versus having peace about like, yeah, this is a twenty thousand dollar job or a thirty thousand dollar job. And it's like, no problem, call me whenever you want. Like, if you have any questions at all, I don't mind you calling on the weekends. Exactly.

Vipul Bindra 1:02:17

No, I completely agree with you because certain clients will do that. I will tell you. They will at 3 p.m. You're spending time with your family on a Sunday trying to watch Formula One. They will call you and say, Hey, you got a minute for a chat? And you have to go, yes or no? And usually my answer is yes. And that comes from just picking clients that you do want to work with, right? If and I and I agree with you, if I don't feel like that about it, normally, let me remove February and March. Those were the weird months for me. But normally, yeah, for years, uh, it's been a long time since I would say after COVID, I have not taken a client where I'm like, I don't feel like I can give you my 100%. And my whole thing is whatever price point, I do it that way. I'm like, I don't care if the budget is five grand or the budget is fifty grand or four hundred thousand or five hundred thousand, whatever. Like the their scale of business. Now, obviously, we already know if it's a five grand shoot, I'm only gonna commit to them one shoot day, you know, one post-production edit uh with one pre-production meeting, right? So they kind of aware of it. But if they call me for a few questions, usually when I'm saying one of that shoots, like, what do I wear? Uh, are you are you guys gonna have microphones? Like, I don't know. I guess they don't get it. Like, yeah, yes, we're gonna bring everything. But what I'm saying is, but I try to at least personally make myself available uh 24-7 to my clients, but I do agree with you. If I don't feel my heart's in it, I'd rather not take the project. The only time I did that was, like I said, those two slow months. Uh was, and again, even it wasn't that negative, it was just taking projects that I'm not usually a fan of. And then I had to go back. I was like, hey, what a uh like don't say yes if you're not happy with these projects. Yes. And like I said, as long as bounced back, and I was like, yeah, never. And it was a good reminder, like, I'm hey, I'm taking projects just because slow. Yeah. So I'm just taking them to fulfill the full uh fill the calendar up. Uh, but you're right, you don't want to you want to take projects that your heart's not in it. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:02

Yeah, you hit it on the head. No, I mean, you learn through hard examples, like you have to learn hard lessons. Like, I would have rather had said no to this. And so, and that's why I did and have and continue to say no to a lot of projects. It's like sometimes the money is there, sometimes it kind of makes sense, but I also know the the like peace that I'll have if I don't that I'm giving up, if I'm like yeah, stressed out or you know, bending my usual framework or processes to meet their needs, and it doesn't fit with anything I do. It's like the and the other thing is I said no to a job recently, it was a week-long job, uh multi-crew. And um what and and it was with the agency I used to work with, and I would have I I would have liked I I did the job uh for like four years in a row, once, twice a year. Really fun job, uh lots of perks, lots of great food, uh lots of fun. But what I realized was I I actually only say yes to similar jobs when it's in my niche now. So like if if it's if if I'm uh like donating, proffering any amount of services, taking a uh like a discount or budget cut or whatever, or like uh doing any kind of free work, um it's it may only make sense for me to do that with my niche. And so now it's so much easier to say no to everything. It's like it's not in your it's not in my niche, uh but but hey, if you're in my niche and like you're not sure if you have the budget or the resources to work with me, it doesn't matter. Call me now. Like let's talk now because there's still a win win. Where your network, your connections, your sponsoring companies, yeah, like or setting up a booth or getting uh being on a panel at your event in front of your clients and stuff like that. So there's value that you can gain. So there is, there is a ton of value, and but it has to be in your niche. And um, I did a I tried to do a YouTube video on uh doing free videos, all the free videos I've done. And um it came out okay, but essentially what I was trying to say was like do it in your niche. Like, you know, I know a lot of videographers and photographers who either like, oh, I gotta get at bats, I gotta do free work. It's like it I've learned through doing a lot of that that a lot of it didn't serve me in the long run. You know, and what did serve me in the long run was when I started to like find my niche and and then the relationships in that niche, it was like I was carving a path and everybody in that path was getting word of mouth, that free work has always paid off for me. Whereas you look at all the other free work I've done and it's like yeah, dead.

Vipul Bindra 1:07:14

It's just exactly I think I I I I've always for free work as long as you volunteer. My my my position on free work has always been if somebody is asking you to do free work for them, usually the answer is no because you know it's it's not the right dynamic. But it's totally okay for you to do free work for other people, if that makes sense. It's okay to volunteer like, hey, I love what your cause, I love what you're doing. Let me come, like I said, sponsor this, make a video, whatever. Because at the end, they it's a mutually beneficial relationship because now you wanted to do free work for them and they understand that the value they're getting is your your services and your video that's gonna help them gain whatever you're gonna do for them. But now you're also benefiting because they from adding it to your portfolio, your reel, or just getting those networking connections or whatever. I think it's totally worth it because at the end, nothing uh you know, you're gonna get something out of it, whether that's experience, whether that's you know, more clients or just uh connect or whatever it is. I'm saying it uh I I totally believe in free work, especially if you know you're like, hey, what you know, if you sit down and you say, What would I be doing right now? What can I do like that I really want to do? And if it's if you can go achieve that just by and you have to do it for free, I would. To me, that's worth it. But now, like I said, the only time I say no is like that, uh, the opposite, where somebody calls you is like, hey, come make this video for free, man. I'll give you exposure. I'm like, uh, exposure doesn't pay bills, no, thank you. No, yeah, because that dynamic dynamic is completely wrong, right? That's where they're just taking advantage of you. There's no guarantee you'll get any return but exposure. And that's as we all know, exposure bucks don't pay anything.

Packaging Value And Transparent Pricing

SPEAKER_01 1:08:51

No, and I totally agree with you. Like, there's a massive conversation. So I'll give one example of like where it worked out really, really well for me. So I had um a nonprofit reach out to me asking me if I could cover a multi-day event, it was like a four-day long event for them, and I got all the information I needed, and I felt like it was gonna be a two-person job. And at the time, I want to say I quoted them probably like 10 10 grand, like eight to ten grand. I do give a discount for nonprofits in my niche, and so uh they got back to me after I gave them my number, and they said that they actually only had three. And so I what I did was I pulled an operator, and so I said, I'll that covers the operator, and then I'll pay for all post-production, like I'll I'll donate post-production, and I will allow the operator to do like two full days or like uh you know, just we'll be very particular about the time the operator is there to get the most out of them for you guys. So they were like, wow, that sounds amazing! Like, we'll still get a highlight video and all this stuff. And I was like, Yeah. So we they booked us, right? Three three thousand. I booked the operator. Two weeks later, I get a call from somebody and they're like, Hey, we work for um it's a consultant group up in DC, uh very, very well-known consulting company, and the nonprofit referred me to the yeah, and get like that's I don't know, probably been like uh like 200, you know, in the last couple of years, and it'll probably be another so guys. I took a loss of what 7,000 for 200?

Vipul Bindra 1:10:48

Yeah, it's totally worth it. It's like the best marketing you can do, and that's why I'm like I totally uh like why video because it's uh all about doing the right thing and uh it comes back, but but you also have to do it with the intention of it not coming back. I feel like also when you're already like, if I do this, they may refer me and I may get something. I feel like that already, again, you start with that negative, I don't know, um, energy that just doesn't work. I feel like if you just go out there, do good, do positive, you're like, hey, I want to help this nonprofit. They're being honest with me, like they're being upfront with me, what we can do. You want to be part of it, you help them, you know, and then hopefully something good comes out of it. But you know, uh, and it did. I think it's incredible. And if you do that on a daily basis, I'm not saying discount your services for everyone, but you know when I help where help help is needed, yeah. I feel like, and and even with clients who can pay full price, just do right by them. I feel like it always comes back tenfold. Like you said, you'll get a referral that may be worth 10x the money, or you may get connects somewhere where you've been trying to get into, or it may just be access um, you know, to somewhere you want to have access to, or it may just be nothing but somebody, you know, you help with and they're always grateful. It doesn't have to be something major, you know. I've had where we've helped uh like I don't know, a government agency or whatever, um, or state agency, let's say more, uh, you know, state government agency where they were like so thankful. They were like, This is this is so amazing. And then, like I said, not expecting it, they did refer us some people that came to them and they were like, Oh, talk to Bendra or whatever. You know, they made our videos, uh, and here you go, here's the video. So you never know. I'm saying we never did that with their intention because they came up, they're like, This is the RFP. Our current part people who won the RFP dropped out. So do you want it? This is all it is, and and please tell us what you're donating, because they knew we would be donating our our portion of our services, and because you know, then they can report it back to whatever agency, like, hey, look, this is how much we got donation back. Um, uh, so uh so anyway, I'm saying it's a win-win without we us trying to. It was just us like, hey, is it this do we want to do this? Absolutely. You know, now how can we write off this amount? Where can we get this extra portion? Sure, profit is the easiest thing, right? You're like, sure, we want to make profit. Then it's like, I have costs, I gotta pay it, like you say, operators. I gotta pay for posts, I gotta pay for all this extra thing, uh, and I gotta pay for my time. And obviously, I'm not paying myself, but I'm like, where am I gonna make that back? Right, you have to do other projects where you make that back. So, either way, I mean that's on us to figure out, not for them. Uh, but like I say, uh, I've never been burned ever, uh, where I genuinely try to help someone with nothing that I wanted in return. And I at least for me, like I said, this is 101. And again, I guess you're there, your your ex examples are amazing too. So I would just say run your business how you want to be, you know, treated. And I think usually works out, right? Yeah. So tell us people about your niche. I mean, hopefully they they they listen to season one episode, but like I know your your your niche is so interesting what you do and who you help.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:51

So yeah, so it so when after my dad was killed in Afghanistan in 2005, which the 20th anniversary was actually yesterday, the June 28th. Hate to date your podcast. I'm sorry. Yeah, if this comes out in like seven months.

Vipul Bindra 1:14:08

Yeah, probably. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:10

But uh yeah, so 20th anniversary, and uh after losing, I was 15 at the time, and and so immediately I found out that I had a scholarship to go to college, that it that my uh college education would would be uh entirely paid for. And so by several organizations, nonprofit organizations, so when I by the time I graduated, I just felt like I I truly felt like I I I owed so much. And I know a lot of people would say, like, my dad made the sacrifice and that was there for me. People made the decision to donate to stuff like that, but I was just so grateful for for my education and all that I got. And so I dedicated so much time to raising money for those same foundations, working for them. Uh work, you know, I worked in Jacksonville, Florida for uh foundation for a year. I did some pretty crazy, like I did a low-to-high challenge, which was eight days from Death Valley to Mount Whitney. It was like a over a hundred miles, like 40,000 feet in elevation elevation gain and loss. My feet were done, I was dying at the end. And I I did it like a lot of stuff like that to just pay it forward, pay it back, and that lasted about 10 years. And and after 10 years, I started to sort of fall into video production. So when I picked up a camera, a lot of those people were like, Come tell our story, and that's really how I fell in my niche. I I did do a lot of other stuff. I got ex when I worked, I had a portfolio of that stuff. When I moved to Orlando, that job gave me exposure to restaurants, hotels, uh construction, uh I mean you you name it, like uh nonprofit organizations, a lot of stuff. And so I got I I I I learned how to use the camera for kind of anything, to tell a story anywhere with any amount of time. And so, excuse me, when I started my company, I had the experience to produce quality uh at scale, and and and then my niche was like almost even more hungry. Like they saw that the quality was there, they saw the quantity was there, and so it was the rest is history. Uh a lot of the nonprofits that g paid it uh towards me and and commemorating my dad's sacrifice and with the gifts that they they've you know given for my family, they ended up hiring us to do a lot of work, and that honestly, like a handful of like two, three organizations gave us exposure to their donor base. And so the story was hey, that's Jacob. We paid for his college, now he started a video company, now he's doing video for us. And then a defense executive sitting at that same table was like, well, maybe he can do it for our company. Let me put him in touch with our our guys. And so just it was just my story. It was like, it was where I fit, it was organic. Like I wanted to pay it forward, so I was helping them. And then the people in the room saw that, respected it, and wanted to invite me. And so that's how over the last three years, uh, we really when we started our company, we spent two years kind of doing a little bit of everything. Like we were, we were just putting food on the table. Yeah, but then really for the last three years, we we just dove into our niche. And so now a majority of our money or revenue does come from from sort for profit contracting companies, defense and intelligence companies. Yeah, and it's it's it's it's a crazy niche. Like the people that come to me, I'm like, what do you do? Like, oh, you know, we're we're yeah doing some pretty gnarly stuff and all over the world. And I'm like, all right, let's do a video.

Vipul Bindra 1:18:20

Yeah, that's like so crazy to think about, yeah, who your clients are. I mean, to be honest, we had like a missile designer last year who's a videographer on the on this show. I'm like, what's your day job again? Oh, you work for one of these defense contractors making yeah uh missiles or designing missiles, and now you're like also going in filming somebody's wedding. I mean, the the the the the contrast couldn't be you know like more, I'm just saying. Uh so so, but at least I like your motivation. Like I said, you were just giving back because you were given so much because of what you went through, and you were like, hey, let me go give back to this community, and now it's giving back, giving you more tenfold back. I know. This is how it works, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:03

I keep trying to pay it back and it keeps like, no, stop, I'm never gonna get out of debt.

Vipul Bindra 1:19:07

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you'll always owe them debt, right? Because but that's pretty cool though. I think it makes purpose, you know. Not that, you know, like I said, what you're doing is awesome. I love video. I feel like everyone needs a video. But to have a mission behind it, to have a purpose behind it, um, you know, I don't know. It just makes it worthwhile. Like uh, like I said, I love what I do. Uh, but sometimes, you know, we get projects where we get to promote where we actually are making a difference. That's why I love those projects because I'm like, yes, I don't mind promoting this company's bicycle or uh chemicals or products or whatever. That's fine, that's good. I like I like it, I like what I do. But then when you help a company, like last year that the documentary where, you know, uh Six Minutes to Live, where we were talking about like cardiac arrest, sudden cardiac arrest, and uh raising awareness could actually save lives. And I was like, this is incredible. You know, I'm happy to be part of this because uh not only is it we're making great images, right? We're here to tell the story of what we love, like love doing video production, but now this this story is gonna most likely go out and make waves and impact. And I don't know, it just feels good, right? Uh on the inside, you're like, hey, my work makes a difference, you know, even though nobody's gonna see us, we're we're behind the scenes what we're doing, but they're gonna see the the impact that we're making, and I think that's to me worth it, yeah.

Niche, Mission, And Story Power

SPEAKER_01 1:20:27

Yeah, and I just want to echo what you said with we love what we do. I I remember going through COVID and I was working for the agency and we were at Mission Inn up in Howie in the Hills, and it's it's it's like 30 minutes north of Clermont, for those of you who aren't around or know the area, but they had to they had to let go of a lot of their staff and it was privately owned. And I remember I showed up one day and there was a there was a uh a housekeeper who they wanted us to like tell her story, and it and she she was like a uh uh a 9-11 survivor, like she was she was at the towers when they fell. And like she was like a housekeeper, and like she was like surviving through uh the pandemic and she was working for her family, and and it was just like that's why I love what I do. It's for me, and and I can really find that in almost any job. Like I've never been on a I mean I have been on a couple of jobs where I'm like I shouldn't be here right now, like this is really bad. This is dumb. But for the most part, it's been great to just tell people's stories and and and when you're interviewing or when you're getting to know subjects to really make them feel seen and to hear them and to listen to their story, and then and then to give them a platform, right? Because that's what so much of our work is is we're we're you know, we're making people uh not famous, but we're giving them a platform, we're giving them a voice. We're we're saying, hey, this is important, they're important, listen to what they have to say, and we're gonna polish it up so that uh you know the message is succinct, it's it's it's very clear. Yeah. And uh and when you give that to people, it's really, really rewarding. And and it's a cool power to have.

Vipul Bindra 1:22:25

That's awesome. Yeah, no, I like I said, that's that's what makes I think most successful people in video successful, and I think it's pretty much actually everything. Uh, you know, if you love what you do, it just makes it easier. It makes it easier to be awesome at it, it makes it easier for you to put the day in, day out, the hard work that goes behind the fun parts, right? Because sure the shoots are fun, we're telling these stories, the hours and hours of non-fun that it takes, you know, it makes you want to just do that because you're like, hey, I love what I do, right? It makes it worth it. Um, switching gears, I want to talk pricing strategy. Because I feel like we've thrown, we're uh you know, we've thrown so many numbers at people. If somebody's listening and they don't know you and me, they're like 50,000, 40,000, 200,000. Yeah, it's like, what are you talking about? I can't make a you know a living here, I can make 50 grand. So to give people an idea of pricing structure, like how to price videos, I feel like that's something that's for some reason it's the simplest thing, but it's gate kept a lot. And even for me, when I started out, I'm like, I have no idea how to price, you know, because nobody wants to tell you that. I feel like it'd be really cool to like, I don't know, talk about that. Like, how do you price? And I get it, it's there's levels to it, obviously, when you're starting, when you're mid tier, but anyway, talk about your pricing strategy. How would you price a project? How do you approach it? How do you pick numbers that you know things like that?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:44

So obviously it's always different when people approach you, the scope of the project, but if you're looking like I have no problem kind of putting my general scope and price range on my website. I'm like one of the only video companies that does it. And I just like it's a pet peeve of of mine. And and and I don't think you know, I don't have anything against people who do it, but like I've looked at websites and I'm like, oh, I want to see how much the DP is, or I want to see how much they charge for their grip package, and they're like, custom, call now. And I'm like, dude, I'm just trying to get data, you know. Uh and so I wanted so in doing that, I wanted to put ourselves out there. So if you look if you look on our website, pull it up, Mario. You're you videographers out there. Yeah, we have essentially three different brackets, like pre-production, production, post-production. And then honestly, if if you if you diagnose it, a lot of it doesn't make sense. You're like, wait, what do you charge for editing? Wait, doesn't that mean you make less than production days? But it's it's just been what works really well for us and what's kind of kept us competitive with our clients. Look at that.

Vipul Bindra 1:25:00

Look at that beautiful website over there. So, where is that? I can't see a text, Mario. Can you find uh where's pricing? Look at that. Right here. Uh let's see. Pricing. Okay, let's go down. Let's see what it says. How much does it cost? Look at that, how cleanly it's written. What does it say? 500? Yeah, pre-production. Okay, I see now. I was like, what video are you making for so pre-production?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:23

And then if you notice below, we have per day. So for pre-production, and and what the only thing I don't say on this is like you don't have to buy all these things together, like you can buy them individually. But I just want to give an you know an idea to our clients of like, oh, okay, if I want to pay videographers to be on site, I'm gonna look at production, and this is how much I can expect to pay per day, and this is generally what I can expect to receive from them. And so if you're a stranger looking at this, you probably have a lot of questions, but if you're in our in our niche, in our community, referral, word of mouth, then you you're like, you know what? I know they have good work and I have a general idea of their pricing. And so let me, you know what? Like, I don't think this is out of scope, and maybe he'll work with me. Let me reach out.

Vipul Bindra 1:26:15

So if I'm understanding this correct, your lowest video would cost$500,000,$500, so$2,000 is the lowest video you would do is. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:23

Exactly. And so there you go. Make it simple. Yeah, we'd be willing to work with somebody at that. It just, you know, it's like, what can my editor get done in less than one day of editing?

Vipul Bindra 1:26:33

Yeah, exactly. No, that makes sense. And then uh, your you know, your higher range would be what 10 plus 2,500 plus so 15k, right? That would be a higher range per day or per video that you're looking at, basically. Yeah, and obviously you can go to custom stuff, but you get the point. Yeah, no, it makes it easy for people to understand.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:49

And that's the average for us, right? Like, and I kind of learned my lesson. I got really, I think I bit off more than I could chew. This this hasn't always been the same. Yeah, and and the last pricing structure that I had was actually it was it was based off of our biggest paying jobs, which guess what? They're like of the jobs, they're like two percent of my jobs.

Vipul Bindra 1:27:10

So yeah, you don't want to scare people off. Is there more to it, Mario? Scroll down or no, is that yeah, you can scroll down. Let's see. Oh, look at that monthly packages. Do they have pricing too?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:22

Or yeah, yeah. So those are our retainer packages right there. So we have a social reels package, um, and then we have all these.

Vipul Bindra 1:27:30

If you can zoom more, I can't see. I know people probably at home can see. For who's listening? We're basically looking at uh um his website, Jacob's website. It's called poor bear um stories. Yep, poorbearstories.com and uh kind of like looking at options that he has pricing packages, which is pretty cool. Like you said, it's not normal to have all this straight up on your website. Yeah. So social package, reels about$2,500 a month, which is pretty pretty good pricing for five to seven reels. Highlight video 3750.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:04

Yeah, and if you know, if you're anybody, if you're like a a real estate uh agency or you're a a general contractor and you come to my website and you look at my prices, they're not gonna make sense for you. Right. Because if you look at my social rules package, 2500, I know like a hundred kids right now who will do the same deliverable for you for 250 dollars. Yeah, right. But I just want my my audience to know tailored to your brand guidelines, evolving editing techniques, and collaborative, right? And that's what my my clientele wants and needs from me. So this number for social reels will push a lot of people away. But guess what? We still have retainers, we still have people who pay us throughout the year to do this because it's valuable to them. Exactly.

Vipul Bindra 1:29:02

No, that makes sense. Let me see some more, Mario. Go down, scroll down. Uh YouTube. Okay, so that's customized stuff. Yeah. So what's on the left? Oh, right. My bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:12

So you this is kind of where I'm hedging my bet. Yeah. That's that's all YouTube and that's all custom pricing. Because what I figured out early on was in helping people with their YouTube presentation. Keep going down. If you have like if you have like a channel that has 10 views and you're helping them grow, that's not bad. The SEO, the tagging, the thumbnail design for 10 videos is fine. But when you have a client come to you and they have 10 years uh history with a thousand videos, that's why it's custom priced. Exactly. But I do like YouTube is where I'm hedging my bet and where I'm pushing my clients always because it's organic ranking. Google SEO loves it. The more videos you have with all the data, it it makes us look better. It makes our job easier. Yeah.

Vipul Bindra 1:30:05

No, that's pretty cool. No, that's uh that's really nice. Thank you, Mario. Uh, it basically uh I I like the way uh you're doing it again, not normal, but if it works for you, it works for you because it gives your clientele uh uh an idea of what to expect. Um, now let me ask you this. Have you had anyone look at this and get confused or no? Like which package to pick, what rate, or whatever, or no?

Free Work That Actually Pays

SPEAKER_01 1:30:31

Um, so we actually it's interesting the way it happens, but actually I shopped it with all my current clients. Okay. So like I was fully transparent and I was like, hey, you know, what do you guys think of this? And they were like, Okay, this part's confusing. What do you mean by this? And so I I continue to refine it, but all of my current paying clients were like, Okay, it's good to go. Yeah, like we get it. Um, that doesn't, I don't have data from other people or from people that chose not to work with us. Yeah, you know, I know people have clicked on the page, I know who has clicked on the page, and I know that they left, they watched it. But the data that I do have is that we typically have one, two, three people that will reach out to us after two years of following us, after two years of looking at our website, after two years of knowing our pricing, and and and say, Hey, I have a project, I think it's time. Can we talk about some stuff? And so, really, what they're doing is they're just constantly getting data about my company. They're like, what's he pricing at? Is is he getting way out of his league? What's his crew look like? What's his quality look like? Yeah, like is he a good person? Is he or do I not agree with his, you know, whatever? And so that's you know, and then and then two years later, it's like they're like, hey, I've been watching you guys, I've been, you know, and I have a couple of questions, but I think we want to work with you, and I think we're ready, press go. And and at that point, it makes it really easy to work with those people because they have all the data already.

Vipul Bindra 1:32:10

No, that makes sense. No, you're you're being upfront, and again, this is still a range, it's not like you said, two grand for video. This that that's what I'm inferring from it. Uh, but they still have to reach out to you and talk to you about the project and the scope. Because you know, if he needs 10 days of shooting, that that's just yeah, that's just an idea. Uh hey, at the same time, talk about one something really new. Uh well, that's a new one. Something else I saw. Pull up Key Light Cinema website. Oh, yeah. Uh so I just had a uh so I just met Mike, who's the owner of Key Light Cinema. Uh yeah, Mike Wedissa. And and then we had rented a Birano from him. So I had a good chat with him when I was returning the Burano. And so I happened to look up their website. He just built his studio, dude. Yeah, he's building his studio right now, yeah. Uh so but uh same thing. But I I was very intrigued by how he does his pricing. It's very again to me, every job's custom, right? They call me, they tell me, I figure out the scope, I can give them the pricing. Or they give me a pricing, and I'm the producer, I maximize the most. But he had like everything like very old school, broken down. Yeah, keep going down. Look, stop there. Like, look, nine, yeah, DP 975. You know, basic camera package, 650, two-ton grip package, um uh 550, and then teleprompter and operator, 900, hair and makeup, 750, right? AC 650. So audio tech is this gaffer 750. So I'm like, okay, it makes it easy in a way. So I'm like, okay, so if I need a gaffer and a grip truck, it's 750 plus whatever the grip rate was up there. Then if I want to add a grip, okay, add that. So point is it's it's very um old school in a way. I mean, like you said, it's very transparent, it's up front, but then on the other side, uh, you know, that's not how things are done anymore, at least what I see. Um, so but but I guess there's an ease of it. It's like if you need an AC, uh, this is you need hair and makeup, uh, you know, or whatever. You can easily go there, look at pricing. You can call the guy, book it up. Simple, but I think this is more aligned towards or what post-production is see, drone and licensed pilot and all that. Uh, very easy, but I think this is to me more for production companies. So this is one way to approach a lookup just what pricing should be, right? This is this guy who's been here a long time doing real good work. So you can kind of get a reference of what he's charging for either going himself or sending his team out. But then uh it also gives you an idea. You can you can go back um Mario to the to the podcast. Uh awesome. So and then the other thing I like is I like talking to him was you know, it makes it simple, but then you have to see that this is targeted towards other production company, other agencies, other uh marketing agency or whatever, like people who you're who who understand that lingo. If one of my clients had told them a gaffer or a grip or or you know, that they're not gonna understand that. Like they have no idea. So I guess it's also who you're targeting. And it's okay to have two different websites if you want to target both, or even on the same website, maybe having two pages for like, hey, end clients or I don't know, other production companies, or something like that. I don't know the right way to obviously do it on a website. Uh, but what I'm saying is that so that like yours is more detailed, I felt like is for end clients, right? Here's your options, and this was designed more towards other production companies, so people could do both, either or. Uh, but it's really neat for me because like I said, I've always been like, uh, I want to do packages. And like I said, we talked about that. But like to me, it's always been like the way at least I've done my business and it's worked for me is custom. People call me to tell me what they want, or usually, like I said, the best I am is when they tell me the budget. They're like, I've got X number of dollars, and this is kind of what I want to achieve. And me figuring out how I can get the most out of it, right? That money, and giving them the best video possible at that price point. So I love doing that. So it'd be hard to do when I'm giving them a set price point. It's like, oh, five grand. But what if we needed to do three shoot days or whatever? I don't know. Uh and uh I guess the the main thing I wanted people to see is A, what roughly pricing looks like, you know, so you can then price out your con your services, what you think is valued at, just giving some reference by point from you who's successful doing this, from Mike, who's successful doing this. But then I think also it's picking who your target audience is, uh, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:21

Yeah, so and then there's another thing that I want to touch on, which is there, you know, there's this uh personality test called Clifton Strengths, right? And I think it'd be worth you, your team, your team members doing. I paid for my team to do it. We have a coach that we speak to who who it's incredible how they're able to bring our our personality, our strengths and weaknesses into like how we make decisions. And um and pricing is absolutely one of them. And the difference is in pricing, the difference in jobs. Like Mike is a strong uh DOP. Now he he has great great stuff on his website, but the question I would ask is is he somebody that doesn't mind um assuring the end product? Um, and I think that's where people like me and you are different from people like my DP or even David Moorefield. David has said many, many times he loves he loves like, hey, I I'm so optimized. I'm like in the bag, out of the bag, on the tripod, record, card, like everything is just dialed, right? And he is who we rely on to execute that job and like my DP. Whereas we then have to go to our client and say, I got everything we needed, it's gonna be incredible, and I can't wait for you to show the team. And then we have to stand behind that product. And over the years, doing that again and again and again, we build our reputation, we have our word of mouth or whatever, but um, we also, I mean, I'm very fortunate. I haven't had any bad clients or or bad experiences where, you know, God forbid, uh corrupted media or um or uh I forget what that one insurance coverage it's like. It's not slander, but it's like if you professional uh yeah, you like distort the image of the company in any way and they're sued for that, like you cannot be liable. That's like an insurance that a production company has. Yeah. Now, if you ask my DP, does he want that liability? He's gonna tell you, no, yeah, I don't want to do that. Like, I want to be a DP. And so that's how my pricing is. My pricing is more about like the end result. Like, we're a company where like you you're guaranteeing the end result, right? And and I have done it again and again and again.

Production Company Vs. Hired Gun

Vipul Bindra 1:38:53

You can trust in that, and yeah, and and if your DP is not available, they're trusting you to make sure somebody else is available or the crew is right, they're on time. But if they get sick, they called in the you have to call someone else. That's what makes you a production company versus you know, you individually, right? You individually it's like you are the person, and which is okay, like you said, David. But if David gets sick, it's David. Obviously, he could still tap a friend in or send somebody, but I'm saying, you know, you're hiring David versus uh, you know, obviously, as a production company, you're hiring a company because the company's not responsible. If they fixed a date with the crew, if last second somebody calls you and says, Hey, I'm sick or I can't make it or whatever, life happens, you know, then it's your head on the on the table. You gotta figure out who's gonna come, who's gonna execute, who's gonna get that role done, how the shoot's still gonna happen, uh, because it's entirely on your shoulder, which is why you charge a certain rate because you have other expenses to pay for, whether that's insurance, whether that's equipment, because a lot of DPs again own a single camera package of that, right? Um, like for me, it's like I want them to have the equipment I need, and I want to be able to supply that. And um, and a lot of times, like like you said, people aren't gonna own the gaffers around here, don't have access to typically, because you know, it's a smaller market, the type of lights I want to use. So I'm like, hey, I have the lights, go use them, right? Uh, it makes it a lot easier to um to be able to bring in labor or bring in other collaborative people to bring in and make the things that happen that we want to happen for a client. And then you price based on that. And obviously, if it's just you, like you said, I or like I was saying earlier, uh, when I go help friends, I don't charge for any of that. But I'm not responsible for you know storing that data for years or or or what happens, like you said, if uh the media get corrupted. But if if I'm bringing gear, obviously I'm still bringing my high-quality stuff. But I'm saying if I go help, I'm there to help. I'm there to bring my years of experience, and that's has value, which is why they want me there, or bring a certain level of gear that has value. But that's about it. I'm not responsible for post, I'm responsible for pre-production. If the the the talent is gonna show up or say their lines right, right? Stuff that I'm responsible for when I'm the production company. So there's there's you know, each side of the coin, and I guess everyone has to decide where they're happy with, and uh try and figure out obviously how to build a career and make a living doing that, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:41:13

Yeah, the other thing I want to touch on that is we the production company don't get paid to be the hero. We are the last thing from the hero. Uh we eat all the crap, we deal with all the BS, and then we make sure that somebody else is the hero at the end of the day. And so whether it's my DP or my client or maybe their team, it's it's always them who are the heroes. And you know, something interesting that happened actually this last week that we were in Tampa working at an event and um my uh my client has a has a week-long uh college prep uh camp, sort of, and they the the attendees, the students were asking for the photos from my DP uh directly. And in years past, it's been an issue that I've dealt with as a production company. There's a lot of beer bureaucracy I have to work around. Um you know, most of them are minors, most of them need um um talent release or something. Not it's uh the consent from their parents or uh you know what kind of public use or you know, just there's a lot of different things going on. And and so my DP was like, oh yeah, of course, I'll you know, I'll give you the photos. And I was like, oh my gosh. And I talked to the staff and we got everything sorted out, and they fortunately uh had the parents all sign full releases on on the kids, and so he was able to do that. Whereas in my head, as a production company, I am balancing, yeah, and it's not something that he understood. Like we we kind of we bickered about it for a little bit, but it's something that I have like it's caused me stress and and and uh it's it's like bogged me down, or it's delayed post-production, or it's like been like two weeks of emails back and forth to the client, right? Stuff that the production company has to deal with that the crew doesn't have to deal with, that I, you know, through that pain, I've in my head, I'm like, hey, make sure we don't send photos to kids, yeah, even if it's just them and they won, you know, they want to see themselves. It's like pain, and so I carry that as a production company. Um, but figured out a way, everything worked out, forms were good. So I was like, Yeah, you know, DP, you can you can send everything off to them, and they can appreciate you, and they can tell you you're an amazing photographer, and like they can say thank you so much, and you know you're the hero, you're and you can feel like you had an awesome week here at the camp, but on the back end, the production company is always juggling the crap like that. Like there's just a lot of bureaucracy and red tape that we know about that maybe the crew doesn't yeah, or they don't handle that, or they're not responsible for part of it.

Vipul Bindra 1:44:34

Yeah, and and it's okay, not uh being a production company, I don't think for everyone. So if if somebody wants to be a production company, awesome. You know, I think it's I love what I do, uh, but uh but doesn't mean and like I said, I love also being a DP. I love going to projects for my friends where like I said, I go, I help them a mess, and I give them the footage and I walk away and I'm like, this was awesome. I'm not done. Like I am done. I have no idea, you know, the clients or whatever. Obviously, we tried to be bad, but you're good. Obviously, we what I did was good, but I'm saying before and after, it's not my responsibility. Obviously, I'm gonna do the best when I'm there. But you get the point, and I love that too. And it's okay, it's a good one of those shoots is a good, what do you call breathing room in between, uh, because then you're like, oh, chill, you know, like I don't have to worry about posts. Julie doesn't have to be stressed out about more videos she gotta edit. Right. So it's a good, I think, balancing act of like I said, doing both. And uh, and it's just I guess whoever's listening, if you know it's it's just finding uh what they enjoy, right? And if and just doing that, I guess just do more of what you like, and sometimes it could be a mix of things or it could be just one, you know, like I only want to be a production company or I only want to be a DP, and then just pick the lane and do the best. It is obviously going to be easier the more individual re-roll you take, obviously, but then also that means your potential to make money is lower. But I mean a DP can make good money, so yeah, you can't complain, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh I was gonna say we're towards the tail end of uh of our podcast. So anything else you want to touch on before we end?

SPEAKER_01 1:46:05

No, I I was just gonna say, like, you know, I like on talking about my DP and DP's making good money, it feels good when you build a solid relationship with your camera guys, with your with your techs, with your crew, and you want to pay them more, and then you can pay them more. That's a really cool feeling, and that's obviously something that only comes with time and experience, but um there is absolutely something to be said about being the best at your job, whether it's a production assistant or a DP or an AC uh or a DIT. I mean, gosh, I love my DIT right now, it's freaking incredible. Like every shoot, it's like I don't have to worry about this. I can trust that you are going to like just zip through everything, and I'm so tired at the end of a 10, 12, 14 hour shoot, and my DIT comes and I can trust in that process. That that's worth a lot to me.

Vipul Bindra 1:47:08

Yeah, because data is everything. I mean, to be honest, we get paid to shoot, and what we're shooting is those zeros and ones on those cards. If that gets lost, that's a that's yeah, that's very important. I've I've seen on some shoots. So now obviously we don't have a DIT because most shoots that I do, uh, I like to bring biggest cards and simultaneously record. So that means we don't even touch the footage until we're back here in the studio where it's safe, you know, and then we have multiple options to pull it, and I will send one card to one card to just double safing everything. But I'm saying a lot of times I've been on other people's shoots where we are or again, let me take back. We do have DITs when we are using cameras where we do need to dump in between, obviously. Uh, but coming back to him, say I've been on shoots where I'm the DP or I'm helping out where they don't have a DIT and it makes no sense. Like we're shooting an Alexa or whatever. I'm like, you are you are shooting Alexa Ari Raw on 256 gig cards. You gotta dump every 15 minutes, yeah. And and they don't have a count for that. And I'm like, it's crazy. And you don't aid, not only do you didn't you know account time-wise for that, but you also didn't account for somebody to actually do that. Now, you know, somebody else in the team has to not take on that extra role, and there's a high chance they're not they have multiple roles now, they can mess up or something like that. And those the you some of those cameras don't even have dual cards, they're only recording of that one card, so you know you better make sure that it's backed up twice somewhere, or else, you know, it the whole shoot, which costs tens of thousands of dollars, is a total loss because if you don't end up with the footage, then what were we doing here, right? So that that is a big factor. I totally agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:45

Yeah, when when we next time, I want to just nerd out with you on like storage, data, ethernet, 10 gigabit, like switches. Like next time I want to get into that stuff.

Data, DITs, And Archiving For Trust

Vipul Bindra 1:49:01

Oh, absolutely. I love nerding out. Like I said, that I think and that's what separates me. At least I feel like I could be. I feel like you know, what we do is a very, very creative thing and a very, very technical thing. Yeah, so to do what we do, you have to be really good at everything. And that means it takes either a lot of time or a lot of energy, which most people don't have. And I think what helps me is I'm obsessed with this. Yeah, so I'm always on top of like what's new, what's everything, like both technical side, like what are the specs? How do we get the most out of this certain equipment? Like, uh, and then the other side of it is like, what are the new things? What's the new latest movie? Like, how are they doing the new techniques? What's what's the latest commercials? You know, how are they doing? So, you know, like there's two sides of it. This test it does take a lot of time, to be honest. Oh, yeah, to to to keep up with both. It's already hard to do one side, and that's at least what I try to do. I'm like, oh, I that's my USB. You know, I gotta, I gotta keep up with both, but it's hard. No, but I love nerding out. I think you've seen our server rack, uh uh, you know, how uh we have 10 gig it'll help Juliet. It but also be able to send footage if we have remote people to clients or whatever. Yeah, I that that's a good topic. I like it. But I don't know how many people care about that, but it's very important. Storage is key. Yeah, I know because a lot of people don't realize that, like as a production company, what we record is our of high value to us because that's what we were paid for. Yeah. I know uh it's hard to understand that, but like for for you know other people, like because if yes, we spent all that money hiring the people, the crew, like you said, talent release farms, all that crap. But in the end, what we return home with was zeros and ones on some cards, yeah, or a drive. Yeah, and and and and that's the value. And you can keep you reusing, especially why people coming keep coming back to us, is because now once we have that, we have that, right? We can keep using that even in future projects, some B-roll from here or some A roll from here, or whatever. And as you build, as you keep working with a client for years, they're getting that value. It's just storing terabytes of their data is expensive, yeah. But it's but it's it's also valuable for them to keep coming back to you and me. Yes, is because now we have an archive of years of data that we can you know deploy as needed in a project.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:11

That's something that you and I are both nerdy about because uh from what I see, there are so many, a majority of companies out there who are like, we delete your data after a year.

Vipul Bindra 1:51:23

Yeah. I mean, to be real, I put that in the contract, but we don't actually delete it. That's just so I'm like, I I don't guarantee any data after years. Yes, but you're right, we do keep it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:33

No, but I've so much value. I've seen people like we we deleted that a year ago or two.

Vipul Bindra 1:51:38

Yeah, and yeah, you don't want to actually delete anything. Ideally, as a company, you want to keep everything you ever record because it's expensive.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:45

You made a massive investment in your server rack, and um, and a lot of people are like seeing the the NAS analogy, QNAP, all those things pop up, and they're getting into it now that they have 25 terabytes of footage and they don't realize they don't want to be a production company anymore.

Vipul Bindra 1:52:02

And and then they end up with drives, you know, stacks of drives, and you don't know what's gonna fail, which one is which. It's just it's just a nightmare scenario. Um, I feel like because then there's no redundancy, obviously. Uh so yeah, those are the costs that people those are the what do you call uh indirect costs or uh or hidden costs that people don't see that we have to bear because it the because it's expensive to store terabytes and terabytes of data, and that's not accounting for the costs of then you know having redundant drives, then to uh uh if you want to send it to off-site for remote backup, those costs are very expensive.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:34

Time. How long does it take to get the data back? Hey, we want that 10 terabytes you've shot for us over the last seven years. Yeah, you know how that's gonna take me a little bit of time to especially with long-term storage.

Vipul Bindra 1:52:45

The cheapest option for us is long-term storage with Glacier or uh Backblaze or whatever. They don't, I don't know if you've tried, it takes forever for them to bring that back, even though you know they charge you if you ever actually need that back, because you know, again, it's long-term storage, so I don't know how they're storing it, but it's not like a hard drive just ready to spin up. So it takes them a while, and and obviously some of these companies will send your drive and you return the drive or whatever. But it's still I'm just saying it's it's costly, it's time consuming, and uh, but there's value to it if you do it correctly. But we can talk about that next time. Next time. Next time. But thank you, thank you, Jacob, for coming. It's always a pleasure, man. The conversations we have are incredible. I also want to thank Mario for being on the producer desk and doing a killer job.

Mario Rangel 1:53:30

Oh, thank you guys. It was a really great conversation.

Wrap-Up And Next-Time Teasers

Vipul Bindra 1:53:33

Yeah, thank you, and thank you uh to anyone who's listening or watching. Until next time on Studio B sessions with me, Bendra.