Vipul Bindra: 0:04

Welcome back to another episode of Studio B Sessions with me, Bendra, the owner of Bendra Productions here in Orlando, Florida. Uh, and I've got Mario again on the producer table. How are you doing today, Mario?

Mario Rangel: 0:17

All good. Thank you guys for coming one more time.

Vipul Bindra: 0:20

And obviously, our guest today, Jason Cannon, a veteran industry uh photographer. You've been doing this for more than 30 years. It's so crazy. And I'm so excited to have you. So thank you for coming.

Jason Cannon: 0:32

You're dating me, man. I was like, this is like I'm not a fossil over here, but I feel like it sometimes. No, I I still have the same energy. I just uh I wear out a little faster nowadays, right? And need a little more recovery.

Vipul Bindra: 0:45

Yeah. No, I totally get it. I love what you do, I love the photos that you take. It's just it's just fun having you here because I've always um uh you know um liked what you're doing and and wanted to find ways for us to partner and collaborate. Plus, you know, video and photo kind of go hand in hand, even though what you do is different. What I do is different, but to clients, photo video is the same thing. Um I had this happen recently, you know, where somebody wanted event videography, but then they're like, no, no, we need the same vendor to do photo and video. And somebody like me, where my company's you know mastered in video, it doesn't make sense uh to also take on photo, but at the same time, I don't want to lose a client, a great video opportunity, and that's where you and I can come in, where it's like, hey Jason, here's a partnership. Like, do you want to do the photo section of this video, right? Or or whatever. And then in just general, being at chamber of ends, being able to, you know, partner together or uh or represent our services, it's just it's just fun. I think photo and video kind of go together. What do you think?

Jason Cannon: 1:47

Oh, absolutely. It and we're both uh visual storytellers, you know. It's a it's a different medium or format, but uh honestly, we need both to really tell the whole story. You know, a photo can be powerful in a in a snapshot type of thing, but then the video comes in and just brings it all. It it appeals to all those senses and just brings it all together. And that photo's like that photo's like boom, and then the video just ah right?

Vipul Bindra: 2:18

Exactly. The way I like to describe is like you know, you're freezing the action, you're capturing the moment, what happened in that action, versus I am uh I'm I'm capturing the the the uh action, right? While you're freezing the action, similar but different, and at the same time, you need both to convey the message, right? There's a flow, exactly, yeah.

Jason Cannon: 2:36

There's a real flow to it.

Vipul Bindra: 2:38

So uh so tell me about it. Like, how did you obviously you've been doing this a long time? Uh, I love the name of the company, Canon Fire Photography. Yeah, it's so cool. Now, does that mean are you limited to just Canon cameras? Absolutely.

Jason Cannon: 2:51

So this goes all the way back to when I was a kid, and when I was a kid growing up in the 80s, right here, Orlando, I'm a native. Uh, my dad was a hobby photographer, and he had this camera called the Canon AE1 program. It was the first autofocus um SLR type camera that existed. Wow. So he had this growing up. He's always taking pictures of our family, and then he'd put them up on the wall, and it'd be landscapes, and it'd be pictures of me and my brother at a creek or something, and they were just beautiful. So by the time I get to be in middle school, I'm getting my first camera. It's an underwater, his film days, not digital stuff, right? It's an underwater compact camera, so we could go to the beach and surf and fish and all this. And I'm just constantly getting pictures of us in action, me and my friends, and family. And uh, you have 36, 24, or 36 exposures in that camera, and that's it. And you don't see them, oh, look at this. No, you're like shooting it, and then you send them off and you get them back in a week, right?

Vipul Bindra: 3:49

Yeah, that's crazy. And you know, it's kind of coming back. What's crazy is like it's full circle. Yes, I love digital, I love the ability to review yourself. You're not limited to certain exposures, however, there was an art to it. Yes, because you know, you're limited, you only have this many shots or whatever, right? You have to make everyone count, and that's why I think there's a trend. And I don't know if you notice that it may not work professionally, but at least for art and um uh more um as a hobby, people are uh now buying, you know, film roles, going back to those type of cameras, which is yeah, crazy to think about that we've come a full circle. We went almost where it's like, oh, Kodak is gonna go out of business or whatever because nobody wants film, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, it's such a neat thing to own a film camera.

Jason Cannon: 4:34

But we're we're in a a total extreme opposite of where it's headed. Like you've got this on one side, on the other side is AI.

Vipul Bindra: 4:42

Yeah.

Jason Cannon: 4:42

Right? And it's like, oh, I just text a photographer friend a picture of a bad AI headshot, and those are like taking off right now. Yeah. And and I I zoomed in on it, and there's something in the eyeglasses that totally doesn't exist anywhere in the picture in this AI picture. Yeah, it makes it. It's like that's the anti-art. And AI, well, we'll have use for it. We all do, you know, but when you've completely replaced a picture or a video and it's completely AI.

Vipul Bindra: 5:04

Yeah, at that point, it's like, what? There's no artistry at all in it.

Jason Cannon: 5:08

And that's what we really are, is a visual artist, and it's like that just strips it of all of that.

Vipul Bindra: 5:13

Exactly. You have to find the right angle. Because I feel like what makes a good, for example, headshots, talking about it, is you know, you get the you see the person's side, you pick the angle, you pick the the pose or whatever, or you make them do a few, so you pick the the them at their best moment. Yeah. How does the AI know? All AI is doing, the ones I've seen, at least the apps, you just take a photo with your phone, right? You give it to it, and then it'll just put you in various settings for a headshot. And I'm like, but it didn't know what angle is best for you, what you know, how your chin should be, you know, whatever what the lighting should be. It's just taking from uh uh you know uh a thing of data that it was trained on, it's not I don't know, specific to you, right? And I feel like I don't I don't think AI could ever replace a human in that. Now, yes, could it help you edit them better? Maybe absolutely, but I don't think it can replace what you do as in like in the moment with the client, making sure you get their best possible, you know, photo. Uh yeah, I don't know how AI could be present there in that moment.

Jason Cannon: 6:13

And backing up again, it's like we talk about where it's at now and where it was, like you're just saying it's kind of these full circle type of things. And it's like again, when when you're when you have film, you gotta really focus on getting the lighting right. And all every single detail you've got to learn. It forces you to learn it the real way. There's no shortcuts, there's no Photoshop, there's no any of it, right? You're learning it all the right way because we're two things. We're professionals and we're artists. And before I was a professional, I was an artist who trained myself and had formal training. And then I became a professional. And I think the shortcuts in now today's world are so much about well, it's AI or I train myself or I go to YouTube or whatever, but it will never replace the second part of that, that professionalism you and I bring. Exactly. I always appreciated that about you. Professionalism is the top with Bendra.

Vipul Bindra: 7:01

Yeah, well, thank you. And it's the same with you, because like I said, I've uh every time you know we're hanging out, I'm like, that's what you want. You're not there to just capture like some of the moments, which is the big part. But then it also matters is like, you know, how you present yourself, how how you uh are not in the way, you know, that can be a big thing at a lot of events. Like I've never had an issue where we're we're filming and you're doing photography where either one is in the way of the other, and it's just incredible to work with, like you said, professionals. And that's what happens when you, you know, you understand what the other's role is, and then you collaborate, right? At the end of the uh I've seen some you know, social media things where the like the photographers taking the view of the videographer, or right, or or or the opposite, where the videographer is in front of the key moment, let's say at a wedding or something, and it's like you're ruining each other's work. There's enough room to back away a little bit, you know, and and and everyone gets what they need. Totally. Uh, and and that's where the the the communication part comes in, right? It communicate being able to communicate with everyone and being able to work together. And I think this is why we're again it circles back why a lot of people now prefer to hire video and photo together because they don't want to deal with that. They're like, hey, if you know somebody who's gonna come together, then you know how to work with each other, right? Yeah, because the last thing they want is their their I don't know, their important moment to be missed just because the photographer and videographer couldn't communicate.

Jason Cannon: 8:22

Yeah, I I truly do. Um, when when I'm with a younger videographer at a wedding or an event, a younger photographer as well. You've probably seen me do this, you know, with with the observer or friends at the observer. I love the observer, I love all the staff. And um, sometimes they'll have an editor or photographer who changes out, and I always want to come alongside, usually a younger person and just help because we I really call it a dance. I mean, it's a dance for us with photography and video art. We we need to be aware of each other so that we help each other get the shots that we need. I'm even going, oh, come on, wait for video, hold on, wait for photo, hold on. So we make sure that we're taking care of it because it's the whole thing.

Vipul Bindra: 9:02

Yeah, exactly. Uh, and coming back to it again, having been born with a name like Jason Cannon, I think it was just in your blood. It had to be. It had to be.

Jason Cannon: 9:11

I've stole so many of their cameras, I got no commission. It's like, what's the problem here? Exactly.

Vipul Bindra: 9:15

I'm like, it'd be so funny if one day, you know, I mean, a canon makes great, especially for photography cameras. But I'm like, imagine one day, like they're they stop making cameras or whatever. It'd be so weird. Like, you know, if you you had to switch brands and come up with like a Fuji or something, be like, what?

Jason Cannon: 9:29

I get the question so much, it's not even funny. I'll bet you use can of cameras. Yes, totally, but I'm the towel, not the camera. I mean my last name, right? And that fire in the in the last name, you know, people comment about that, and it's like it really fits my personality because I'm just so high energy and so passionate, and just so, you know, I'm I I'm intense in a good way, right? I just I really I love, love, love what I get to do.

Vipul Bindra: 9:54

Yeah, you know, and and that that that that's the whole point of it, right? When it's your passion, yeah. Uh when you're passionate about it and you love it, then it's no longer work. Yeah, right. And when it's no longer work, you start to enjoy life. You like to enjoy, you know, doing what you're doing. And uh, I don't know, it just makes life, you know, fun. And then also it makes your client kind of see that energy, and they love that energy too, because they they don't want to be around somebody who's sulking or whatever, not having a good time. Because they'll they'll come in our work, you know, they'll reflect in our work because you you know their emotions show. And uh, so so that's amazing. Uh now obviously you've been doing this a long time. Like you said, you you uh thanks to your dad, you know, he fell in love. When did it become like, oh, you're getting paid to do this? Right? Where did that transition happen?

Jason Cannon: 10:40

Well, in college, I went to the University of Florida to go gators. Yeah. So I'm a gator, I'm a third-generation gator. So it's like my grandfather was there, and even my brother went. I mean, we we're all gators. So I start there and I I majored at first in architecture. Sorry, not architecture. That's what it was, though. That's what we call it. Yeah. I started in architecture and and I get there and I see all these all these college kids like camping out in the architecture school in their sleeping bags. I'm like, what is going on here? They're like, oh, this is this is how it goes. You know, we got overnighters, we got deadlines and all this. And I'm like, hmm, I don't know about this. So I wasn't too sure about it. And again, you go back to the passion. It's like, was that really stirring me? Because in high school I was taking all those pictures. I still love taking pictures. And I decided to change my major, and I was like, oh, I just love sports. I love taking pictures. So I'll go work with the alligator. Oh, I love journalism. Let's go do it. And I switched and changed my major to journalism and covered the gators at the different sporting events and media guides and the alligator, the school paper. Again, developing your own black and white film. I mean, we're doing it all. And um, and then did an internship with a magazine here in Winter Park. Wow. Magazine publisher in Winter Park. I literally lived out of college, my first job, right off Park Avenue, World Publications, editor with Sport Fishing Magazine, traveling the world fishing, and uh helping fishing resorts and and just writing and photographing, just enjoying that. And um, and again, that was my first pay, but I'd had an unpaid internship. So, again, this is a this important message that I that I share with people who are in college is don't ever underestimate the the power of an internship if you can get one in in the field, especially in a company you're interested in. So it was an unpaid internship, my last semester of college, and um, and I applied to several other magazines that I really wanted to get and didn't get it. And I got this one, and I was like, okay, well, let's give it a shot. And I'm pushing papers and they gave me some fun things to do as well. And uh then they're like, it's it's over, and they're like, Um, sorry, we don't have a position right now, but we really think the world of you is gonna pop up and they meant it. Yeah, it was about budget years and all kinds of things. So I moved back in with my parents. I'm waiting for that job. I moved back in with my parents, I'm mowing yards again, like my like my business, like I had in high school, all that. I'm mowing yards, I'm like waiting it out. Six months later, get the call, got the job, right? Yeah, so my first career job came because I was at the University of Florida, so it was Gators that hired me at alums, and uh because I took that unpaid internship and I I had the big picture and was like and you were patient, you waited, waited for it, and then I did what I had to do. That kind of grit that all of us as business owners understand is like, man, if you ever want to own your business own business, you've got to have the grit to go, man, this is gonna be hard and it could take a long time. But I'm I'm got my eyes set on this and I really want it. And it turned out an eight-year career.

Vipul Bindra: 13:38

Yeah, look at that. And and and that's the key, you know, because uh as business owners, like you said, we do a lot more than just photography and video, and that's why you need a certain level of grit. And and sure, like you said, you went to to uh university, I went to uh I have a degree, but at the end of the day, you can learn so much, so much from an internship. Uh I don't I think what you learn in four years in college, probably in three months, because when you're with somebody like you, let's say somebody's interning with you, I feel like they're gonna they're gonna learn from real-world experiences what to do, what not to do, how to interact with clients, how to budget, how to what to charge, why to charge that, you know, things, things that are usually gate kept. And I I feel like that's essentially what can take years to overcome. Versus an internship, especially with uh somebody talented or a really good company, can just change your game because in three, four months, even uh, you know, you're you come out and you're like, oh, uh you're telling me I can go, you know, do this or that or whatever, versus if you you know didn't do that internship or you went somewhere where there wasn't that much education, then you go, uh what now, right? Yeah, so that's the difference between you going, oh, I gotta go do something else. Because so many people who graduate from full sale don't end up doing what they graduated from. And it's not because they didn't want to, it's because uh they didn't come out with the right um uh skill set, essentially, right? Uh, which is they came out with a skill set of photography video. It's talent. Yeah, right?

Jason Cannon: 15:05

It's not talent. They they're talented artists, talented videographers, talented photographers. Yeah, that's not the issue.

Vipul Bindra: 15:11

It's yeah, it's how to find clients, then how to keep them, how to make them repeat clients, right? It's that business knowledge that usually I don't think is taught in in school. You can only learn from real-world experience either by meeting other networking with other professionals or, like you said, interning with someone uh who knows what they're doing. Oh, totally. Uh, and I think that's a game changer. Uh, and I hate that word, but you know, it truly is. If you're somebody young, you're starting out, and all you gotta do is just hang around the people who are doing what you want to do. Right. And I feel like you will automatically learn as long as you show initiative. So true. Yeah. Because I don't care how busy we are on a shoot. If somebody asks me a question, we at least on video side wear you know headsets, I don't care how dumb the question is, uh, I will answer it. Like, I get it. Like, you may not know how to set up stand. You will think, oh, it's very basic. But I'm like, no, it's okay. Press that and hold that knob, right? Like set it up. I don't mind showing anyone anything, uh, because at the end they, you know, I know where I was at one point, right? I didn't know how to do that.

Jason Cannon: 16:11

You and I have talked about this when we've met and talked about, you know, and I've asked you your just how your company is developed, and it's the things you've been saying, this is what you've told me, you know, and it's the same for me. If people, if a younger person comes to me and is like, How do I make it in photography? And I still have college ahead of me, and I'd be like, Don't go to photography school, yeah, go to business school, exactly, or go learn sales and marketing, right?

Vipul Bindra: 16:35

You can learn photography from you. Uh you got I can teach that. Yeah, it's the it's the business.

Jason Cannon: 16:40

And they usually already have the eye and the passion for it, even in high school or whatnot, right? Yeah, it's like, and with cell phones, we're all photographers, but the people who even love it more, well, they've been taking pictures with their cell phone. So it's never the issue, never. It's always, well, you gotta have the business acumen, and I really wish I could do it over, but all that makes me more hungry to go, well, I can't do it over, so let's go, let's learn it, and then let's help people along the way.

Vipul Bindra: 17:03

Exactly. So, how did you um uh, you know, obviously, uh, how did you get involved with the chamber? That's where we met. So at Restaurant Chamber of Commerce, shout out to Stephen Lewis, who was here on the last season of the uh the of the podcast. So that's the chamber that we met at. How did you get involved? Why did you decide to get involved? And we'll go to the benefit of it after.

Jason Cannon: 17:25

Oh, of course. Um, well, I actually moved away from Orlando because I've lived here all of my life, and I'm like, I want to live by the beach just for once, you know? And at that time, didn't have you know the wife and kids, and uh, and I was engaged at the time that it came to me, right? And so I go to my wife, Kara, and I'm like, I want to move to St. Pete. She's like, oh, really? Yeah, so you didn't move me to St. Pete. Right. So we didn't go that far. We went over to St. Pete. I mean, still got friends, clients, all close, right? Um, but opened a cottage studio there and and just loved it. Uh, but then we had children, it's like, gotta go back home. And then I'm thinking, what side of town have I would I love to live on? Because I don't want to go back to the southeast, don't want to go to the east. I lived over there, winter park. Uh, I've already lived there, so I've heard so much awesome stuff about West Orange. Yeah. And uh then we settled in Winter Garden. We went and just drove around and like, oh, it's so beautiful out here, and just feels like a small town feel. It feels like community, real community. Yeah. And uh, and then for the chamber, it's like as soon as I moved, I was like, I've gotta find business community. And I've been a part of different chambers here and there, you know. I don't want to talk down about any of them, you know, but just different ones that just didn't really that weren't really the fit for me, you know. But immediately I met with um with Joe Allery, Allery Design. I was I was giving him name given his name or passed on that name, and I was like, Joe Allery, okay, I've heard this, but I'm gonna meet with him. I met with him for breakfast, and I still, I just still to this day credit him, and he knows it because I'll tell him every time I see him practically. I just so thankful that he sat down for breakfast and outlined what this chamber, what the Western Arms Chamber is really about. And uh, and when he said, you know, it's about businesses taking care of one another, looking out and learning from one another, and um, and really just helping to build that local business community. And uh, and that's a nutshell where the whole business where the whole breakfast was a conversation just like this. You know, you could sit down and be like, this is Joe's the real deal. Yeah, and it was a that was 2016. The next year he's the chair of the board. And I know that wasn't just his flash in the pan, it was just good timing for me to become that official chamber photographer in the year that he was chair of the board, so I could be taking his picture every time he's up there speaking, right? Uh but then through that year, I learned really quickly. I went to Chamber Connections and um, and they were like, you know, if you come to a ribbon cutting and tell. Take pictures out of ribbon cutting, that's a good way for you to get know the business. So I just started serving, you know? It's like same way with you. It's like, especially when you're starting out, and I bring this up to younger people too. I'm like, you're not gonna make money off everything. Yeah, but what you're gonna do is get opportunities. And when you take an opportunity, I go to the ribbon cutting market to table. It was their ribbon cutting. Oh man, what a great restaurant! What a great restaurant and a great group of people. And um, and um Chef Ryan and the whole staff's out there, they had a they had a big dead fish, you know, holding it over their head. I mean, they just went off. It was really fun. Once I did that, I I was in because they saw I did the way I could just relate to people, man, my passion, excitement for them. I made an eight by ten for them to display in the restaurant with the with the ribbon cutting and the chamber at that time. They're like, Well, we don't have any, you know, official photographer responsibilities for you. Uh once I started serving, then I really had earned those opportunities. And it just kept things.

Vipul Bindra: 21:01

And and that's uh, and again, go listen to the the the finale of the last season. I'm not gonna repeat nice what we talked with Steven about, but that is the gist of the conversation was basically look, um, there's lots of chambers that they've they have different needs, different desires. Go visit some of the chambers in your community, and this is for I'm saying somebody who's not a member or he's younger, and join the one where you feel like you belong, because at the end of the day, you have to give to get back. Yes, it's not a immediate, you know, return like you go, you join, and then all of a sudden business is coming to you. Totally. And I think that's what what what why it worked for you is because you not only got you know joined, you were involved, right? You're like, hey, let me let me show you what I can do, and and it and and in the end you got the reward back, right? Totally, yeah.

Jason Cannon: 21:50

And again, through that first year, it became where a lot of the timing of of many of their events is around our businesses, right? It would be a before work or after work. That's one of the beauties of it, is that it works around our business a lot of times. So I I'll bet I must have done nearly all of the events the first year or two. And I got within a year, I got a plaque and an award for for you know just being a new business that's pitching in so much. I don't remember, they don't have it anymore that award. And then, of course, 2020, I'd only been in for less than four years and I won the small business of the year.

Vipul Bindra: 22:26

I was there when you did that. Congratulations again, right? Thank you. What isn't it the crazy too? Because again, I know what you do is incredible, but we, Vest Orange community, the amount of businesses we have is huge in the cr the caliber of businesses that we have, and then for you to win the small business of the year, that must have felt amazing.

Jason Cannon: 22:46

I mean, it is such an honor. And I was so surprised because I was taking the pictures of that, and uh, and then they announced that, and and Stina and Chris, they all knew that like I was gonna be floored, you know. So it's like they actually switched the large business, uh, which was SeaWorld and Jim Forster, who I've become so tight with now, you know, and uh they switched us. Usually they'll save the big one for last, but they switched because they knew I'd get emotional. Yeah, and and that's weird on my heart.

Vipul Bindra: 23:18

By the way, that was my first uh big orange award and I was like, this is incredible because you know that's what I liked, you know, as somebody, because like I said, I was here freelancing, I never got involved in the business community, and then when I left and became a company, right? I did, and then I was like, well, not go, and obviously that was a mistake leaving Orlando, but just like you, you have to leave it. Yeah, you have to leave to come back. So I left for a few years, and I was like, uh, and obviously I joined the business community where I went, which was North Alabama, and I was like, I have to go back to Orlando, and I knew immediately I came back because even though I was only gone for a few years, you know what happens is right, you come back and you're like you feel like a stranger because you know all the connections have been lost or whatever. And I was like, what's the first thing I'm gonna do? I don't I joined the Chamber of Commerce, and it was just incredible to be at that first uh big orange awards uh where I saw you win because you know, as a as a as a video business, we are typically not recognized, right? When we do our good work, people don't notice us. That's the whole point. Because you know, people notice our work, but they don't notice us in general because we're behind the scenes people. Yes. So when you won, I was like, okay, this is the chamber, because they're recognizing you for all the work you put in. And that actually was part of the reason why I was so happy that I joined that chamber and have stayed, you know, member for so many years now, what, five years almost. Uh and and I think that was it. I was like, oh, I it was if it felt good to me, is what I'm saying. I didn't even know you that well back then. And I was like, this is so great that you know you're being recognized um for the work that you're putting in.

Jason Cannon: 24:42

And I love that what felt so special too is that um that any small business, any of us could get recognized of this organization in such a in such an incredible way when we're not looking for that.

Vipul Bindra: 24:58

Yeah, exactly.

Jason Cannon: 24:58

I mean, really, we're just we got this hard to serve, and we're building each other up, and we're really just building this community, and then boom, here comes this, right? It's so cool that that's the way it happens.

Vipul Bindra: 25:09

And then you also know that means people are noticing. Again, I'm not all for awards. Uh like I'll get clients, uh, especially agencies, you know, they they like to submit for you know, streaming awards, and uh what's the other one? The the the paid ones, um uh telly awards. So they'll like they'll email me, they're like, we won this telly like awesome, you know. But then I'm like, okay, move on. And any, yeah, and and whatever. Like, there's so many awards. So clients sometimes will, you know, because you have to pay to submit, unlike the best orange ones. That's something this is a genuine award, like these other ones. I'm like, you pay and you know, usually you win. Uh, I don't know. Uh point is I don't get that excited, but then I'm like, but you know, when you're putting in the work, you know, in an award where it's not a pay-to-win thing type of thing, you have to be, you know, nominated, you have to win, and then there is no none of this other stuff involved. I uh, you know, I I don't know. I feel like it's it's not important, I'm sure, to you, but it it was good to get recognized. Yeah. Because you had put in the work, you deserved it, and it's just so good to I guess see that you were noticed, right?

Jason Cannon: 26:13

Yes, totally. And then again, uh after that, it it's not like it gets to my head, it fuels me. Yeah, it fuels me to to serve more people and and and the uh the business that won this past year, Kelly's ice cream. I sat down with our friend Kevin Lees, you know, and it was last summer, and I sat down with him and I said, You guys are gonna win this year.

Vipul Bindra: 26:35

Yeah, I had a feeling too.

Jason Cannon: 26:38

Yeah, I was like, You guys are gonna win this year. And the reason is because I could see what they're doing, they would sponsor and they would pour into lots of events, you know, they were involved. And it was just like they were all in, and uh, and that's that's what is the best part is to see uh when when we any of us go all in, and then you know, there's rewards for that. Yeah, that's it.

Vipul Bindra: 27:02

And to be real, they make delicious ice cream, it's kind of like cheating a little bit.

Jason Cannon: 27:06

Those flavors are those flavors are definitely there's a reason they're so good, yeah.

Vipul Bindra: 27:10

Yeah, exactly. And when we were filming, talk about the story, we were just discussing this with Kevin. Yeah, so we found we we filmed all the videos, right? This year actually, Mario helped me. So when we were filming Kelly, uh, you know, uh, you know, obviously delicious ice. She's like, You want some? And you know, we were busy because we were going business. So Mario and I were like, Yeah, no, it's all right, thank you. You know, obviously we love to, but no. And then as soon as we got back in the van, we were both looking at each other. Yeah, we never turned down Kelly's ice cream. Did we just do that? That was a huge mistake. Uh so I came home and turning that down that evening. So I took my girls, I was like, okay, we're gonna go. I was like, why did I turn it down for free? So I took my girls to the winter park location here. We got some Kelly's ice cream, amazing ice cream. Yeah, uh, and then I'll also like that. There they have these, you know, they're connected with Foxdale coffee, so it's a lot easier to access in a lot of locations because they have scoop counters or whatever, right? Uh so anyway, but that that was that was a fun experience, yeah. Where we turned down Kelly's uh ice cream.

Jason Cannon: 28:10

Not turned down you guys. I mean, we can eat ice cream while we're recording. Come on, Kevin. Exactly. Where are you where we need you, buddy?

Vipul Bindra: 28:18

But that was fun, and I I loved recording them too. I don't know, I don't think they were doing that for camera, but like we uh we were filming and then the scoop was this ginormous scoop. And I was like, if I put this on camera, they're winning, because it's like, uh, what? This is this is what we yeah, like I said, cheating in a little way. In a good way, I'm just saying. They make just good ice cream, so it's very easy for them uh to get recognized. Totally.

Jason Cannon: 28:40

Well, tagging on to what you're saying though, um, you know, about the award and all that, but now back to the chamber and tying in Kelly's and all this is another thing I really love about a good chamber, this chamber, yeah, is collaboration. You know, we do it's like I partnered with Kelly's Ice Cream last year for several of their events, and Kevin and I would sit down and we'd come up with an idea like summer ice cream beach session, right? And it wasn't huge, but we were trying something new. But that led to their bringing back their Santa um photo shoot where they would just have uh photos with Santa, come and get ice cream to each of their stores, and we did about uh maybe three or four stores, and it was just a hit with their customers. So it's like I got to collaborate with them for an experience for their customers, and our photography was really powerful because of the fact that it's like the kids with Santa.

Vipul Bindra: 29:29

Yeah, right? And you increase their loyalty for their customers, so you know it's it's like the perfect.

Jason Cannon: 29:35

Well, then I got a customer out of it. I got a great customer out of it because they're like, we want to get family pictures. We just had a baby, and uh then they call me and they want to do family pictures out of it. So those kind of collaborations where it's a win-win-win all the way, and then you're just cheering each other on. I mean, they're just continuing to grow like crazy, and I'm I'm still getting there with you all, you know, and it's like it's just we're cheering each other on.

Vipul Bindra: 29:55

Yeah, no, and that's what I love about like chamber and partnering, and that they're very open to it. Like, obviously, uh Steven was clear about you know what it would take for someone to go in, but but the thing is they recognize like immediately, you know, initially I I was just all in uh you know networking and everything. So Julie was going to the events more than I was, uh, but literally within our our second year there, I I wasn't thinking it was a full year yet, second big orange awards. We were already partnering with a chamber. Yeah, and and uh I was like that there's not that many chambers where you can go in, you know, put in the time, put in the effort, but get recognized, but then also become a partner for one of their biggest award shows where you can go in and then kind of like for us two. I don't know how much where is that? Can you silence it, Mario? We're both uh talk about yeah, no, but at the same time.

Jason Cannon: 30:43

I'm like, are we still getting the same spam call?

Vipul Bindra: 30:46

So uh basically coming back to what I was saying, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it was great for us as a new, I'll take it. Uh uh that it was really good for us to partner and uh get recognized because uh not only now I don't know if I and I've said this before, don't expect, like I said, there is cost involved, and I wouldn't just go in partnering with the chamber saying, Oh, it'll just make us money right away, right? That's right. That that's not the way we uh you know you should approach it, and I did, and that's what I'm saying. The recognition immediately, sure, we're doing uh you know great work, but we're traveling all over the country, right? It's hard to let your community know, like that hey, there's such a business here that is going all over the country filming these big spots for these corporations, and chambers the best place to not only give back, but to also showcase what we're doing. And that was the the perfect partnership for me where I'm like, hey, we're just back in Orlando, we're trying to get involved, let us just make a video for Big Orange Award. It's great for the chamber, they get to you know use that video to market that year's events, next year's event. But then on also for us, it's like, hey, let's put Binder Productions on the map, right? Yes, totally, and and that was such a great partnership, yeah.

Jason Cannon: 31:55

You're um you're you're finding that sense of of giving and serving the community again and elevating the businesses in West Orange. It doesn't have to be every business in there, it doesn't have West Orange, you know, specifically hyperlocal as the primary driver of their business, you know, but it's important. You know, it's an important part of our business because of the community of businesses and the people, right? And that that gives us a sense of being grounded.

Vipul Bindra: 32:24

Yeah, exactly.

Jason Cannon: 32:25

Where especially for you, you travel so much, but then you come back and you're home, man. Exactly. You walk into the room, we're bear hugging you, and it's like, man, he's home. They're back.

Vipul Bindra: 32:34

It feels you know, it goods, and then same thing, like just to go to the chamber to have a sense of community, right? Have a sense of other businesses. It's just good to check in. Hey, how's the business going? How's everything going? And I don't know. For me, it's important, uh, you know, from multiple angles, not only just giving back, you know, working with other businesses, partnering, collaborating, uh, also the legislative agenda that the the chamber can fulfill for us on a business we have. See, the thing is, uh a lot of people, and I and I get it, if you're starting out, you're just thinking about paying the bills, making enough money. But once you do go to the next level, you have to think as a business owner. There's much more that goes on, and the chamber is the perfect partner to um kind of make sure that I'm being looked after as a business owner, that there's laws being passed, legislation being passed, that's making sure that it's still easier for us to do business. And I know that may not be something immediately some young people do that, and that's okay, but it's it's a lot easier to just pay some membership, get involved, um, and you know, make sure that there's an organization that's speaking on behalf of you to make sure our interests are are being put forth among, you know, in front of people that we probably don't have reach to, right? Seriously. So so I I I don't know. I find that overall it's been great. And like I said, plus I get to meet people like you, and where we can find now ways to collaborate and partner with each other, because like we were talking before we started, people expect me to do photo, simple as that. That's just what it is. And here's the business thing of it. I could just say no. Yeah, but that's bad business because at the end of the day, they don't want to do deal with two vendors and they'll go to some other vendor happily, right? No, even if though they want to work with me, it's just easier for a business to do that, so it's a lot better for me to partner with somebody like you and go, hey, yeah, absolutely. Does Bindra do both? Absolutely. And same thing for you. If you're like, hey, Canonfire does uh video, absolutely. I'm happy to put on your polo and go shoot a video for you. Because at the end of the day, what matters is that we gain the trust of our clients, right? We uh provide them the service that they want, and it may not be uh, you know, uh, I don't know, that that we want to do. Like, could I do a headshot? Probably. Could you make a video? Absolutely. Yeah, but it's I had a meeting like this yesterday.

Jason Cannon: 34:53

I was actually at a a virtual meeting um being onboarded with a local um destination management company, and um, and of course, they're like, Beauty drone, do you video? Yeah, yes, got you, we got you, you know, and it's like I know who to I know who to call. If they're like, hey, we've got this set, we need it taken care of. Well, I'm jumping on the phone with you.

Vipul Bindra: 35:14

Exactly.

Jason Cannon: 35:14

I mean, people ask that, then we we know that we've got it covered. We just need to, you know, be aware of it.

Vipul Bindra: 35:21

And a network, and that's where again Chamber can come in, coming back to it, where we know each other, we have networked each other, and I'd rather give it to somebody I know uh that I worked with alongside for many years than just some random stranger. Not that you know you shouldn't, but I'm just saying build your network, have your trustworthy people. And funny enough, literally before you came here, this wasn't even planned. My client was like, Hey, can we do headshots? I'm like, absolutely, we can we can do headshots, so that's what we were talking about. I'm like, why would I say no? Because at the end of the day, if I can help my client get quality service and I can make sure I pass on that funds to you, then some random stranger, why wouldn't I? It's it's total win-win for everyone, you know. Yeah, uh so and I think that's where it is. Now I'll I do see a lot of photographers go start with photo, then jump to b video. Right. Have you thought about that? You yourself, I know you obviously do photo. Are you gonna ever do that?

Jason Cannon: 36:14

Part of the conversation I had with them yesterday is uh is talking to them about how it's good to have a team and even saying to them it's like, you know, we have partners and contractors and all this, but it's a trusted team, a network of people that come with canon fire photography, right? And uh I said, but I don't do a drone personally, because by then we're having a great conversation, you know. This was a great call. And um, so I said it's funny people ask me that because I just I'm afraid uh in a practical way that my wife will tell will testify of this that I will probably break that equipment. Yeah, I am uh I am way too ADHD and all this, right? So I I'm just not I'm not interested in it or passionate about it, first of all. Same with video. So then and I'm like, tell I told them yesterday, I'm like, it's the same with video for myself. I'm like, I am in my sweet spot as a superpower, and then I've got my people and I'm their people. Yeah, and we work together where you've got a trusted brand and everyone sticks to their superpower instead of trying to do everything. Now I'm not saying no one can do photo and video on their own. I'm saying for me though, I feel like uh it's a bit.

Vipul Bindra: 37:26

I mean, it's hard. Video is hard. And it depends on the level of video that you're doing. Yes, could you make a social reel with your mission video? No way. So that's why I'm like, it depends also. Like if if you're you know, like, hey, let me do a quick reel, absolutely you could. Yeah, but yeah, it's a completely different skill set with what you do. You see, that's the amount of equipment in here and the van outside, and that and we're considered a small company. Of course, it's so crazy. I'm like, I don't know any of those. And when people ask the question, yeah, do you do video too?

Jason Cannon: 37:57

I'm like, what what are you asking? Like, what is so many types of video? Yeah, and and this is for a luxury hotel chain type of thing that and I'm just going, there's no way, no way that you can say, Oh, yeah, sure, just to appease the person, right? Exactly. We just talked a few minutes ago about professionalism, and boy, professionalism is making our subjects feel uh confident and trust us as well as our clients. Exactly. So it's like I want to go in trustworthy to say, oh, uh we can do video, we can do video.

Vipul Bindra: 38:28

Exactly. We can partner together and then do great video, and that's what it comes down to. And then I'm like, I I'd rather stay in my lane and just have trusted partners. And that was my clients get the best. I think it's also like giving them being being true, you know, a trustworthy partner to them too, because they know if I'm saying yes to something, it's gonna be done right. Yeah, it's gonna be done by a professional, it's gonna also be done by somebody who loves what they're doing. To me, that makes it that that little bit better because you know you're gonna give it your hundred. You're not gonna just go there, oh, it's another payday. You know what I mean? Like money's important, but what you're doing and you loving that, I think I don't know, it's important too. Uh so I mean, like I said, I get it. I'm all for photographers doing video and videographers doing photo, but within a limited scope, I don't think a person exists that could do both at a high level. Not at a high level.

Jason Cannon: 39:17

And and that's if we want the luxury market, if we want big, if we want high volume, if we want the luxury market, if we want to work with the best, then working with the best means they're also working with the best. Exactly. Yeah, the best become the best, us two, because of that.

Vipul Bindra: 39:34

Exactly. And what what I love is um, you know, video, like you said, at least what I do, it can mean anything. So we have a client, you know, where we're doing like a $50,000 video, right? That's a level of client. And then there's a client who's like, a couple thousand dollars is a lot of money. That's the level of client. That does not mean we're not gonna give them both their hundred, but the approach is gonna be different. There's gonna be a team of people here with the slew, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yeah, versus here it's not maybe tens of thousands of equipment, you know, dollars of equipment, not hundreds of thousands. So it's like a it's like a huge difference, even though we're still just making a video, right? And same thing, like you said, if it's something for socials, it may be a few hundred dollars because all you're doing is a little video. So I think the word video can mean so much, but so does photography. You know, it's one thing uh to do a small session, but it's another thing, I don't know, to do an event, right? Totally scale, it varies a lot in photography too.

Jason Cannon: 40:27

And it and even event photography is it's getting to the point where I truly want partnerships, which that doesn't give the partner a discount. The partner pays more because of the value that partner gets. I become a mouthpiece and I become a promoter of that event, our local events, right? And things like this, our community events, you know, whether it's one of the cities, the towns out there, whether it's then I become a true partner of, I'm not just out there taking pictures. If I'm out there and I even engage with people, I am helping to put a positive, you know, um spin, but really just a testimonial of the event, the organizers, the all of it. I really, I really pour my heart into that aspect. I love partnership, collaboration, those kind of things. And it's like people, businesses, in my opinion, need to pay more for that because you're getting someone who is not only committed to the the craft, but committed to building that organization up and coming alongside to help. All right, how can I help promote? How can I help, you know, on any of really this stuff, right? Yeah, absolutely. And that's a game changer. It's not, in other words, I'm not a vendor, I'm a partner. And uh, and I use that language a lot because I I justify my prices um by delivering on that aspect.

Vipul Bindra: 41:47

Yeah, and then you're not just thinking from, oh, I gotta this much deliverables and I'm done. You're looking from a cohesive standpoint, right? What you need to do to execute on whatever their desires are, not just, hey, they want 20 photos, here's 20 photos, and I'm done. You know, there's a it's a different approach uh when you're a partner because you're going with their best interest in mind, and I feel like people notice that, and that's when you get the repeat clientele, and that's what you need to succeed as a business.

Jason Cannon: 42:14

And that's good to talk about on here, right? Because people, especially people again starting out or people struggling, and it's like, oh, I don't, yeah, how do I really? It's like, well, how are you different as a photographer? Yeah, I mean, honestly, I could go online, there's a lot of pretty pictures. Uh, mine looks like this. Oh, that one's better than me, that one's better than me. Well, I don't care to be the best in that, because you know, there's a lot of good photographers, yeah. But I want to be the best partner, I want to be the best professional, I want to be the best, you know, that comes alongside the person I'm taking a picture of, the person I'm working for, and that whole community or that whole business environment that I'm in. And that is a completely different mindset than a lot of photographers take, and videographers do.

Vipul Bindra: 42:57

Golden nugget right there, because I feel like that what you said right there is the key. You want to be the best partner, not the best photographer. Not that you're not a good photographer, right? Right, no, but I'm saying things plenty that are Yeah, there's there are plenty of starving artists out there.

Jason Cannon: 43:10

Am I bidding against them? And it's like, eh, same, same. Well, what separates them? Well, I am the top-rated this or I'm that, and I'm like, okay, but what does that do for them? They don't care what we're rated, they don't care what awards I've won, they don't care about any of that. What can you do for me? Oh, I'll tell you what I can do for you. I'm gonna listen to you. Yeah, how can I help? What is your passion that you want out of this event? Big picture.

Vipul Bindra: 43:36

Yeah, you know, and that that matters, and that's the experience that people are, I think the the they're they'll pay the high, the top dollar for. Because uh, yeah, that's that's exactly where what I recommend, you know, be their partner, help them get to where they want to be. Don't listen, because you know, if you just for example, like if I just started listening to my clients, the videos would be hilarious because clients don't know what they want, especially for video. They're like, hey, I want I want a 10 minute video. I've had this happen so much. I want a 10-minute social media video. And it's like, nobody's gonna sit on social media for 10 minutes. They don't know that, right? So you have to come in as an expert and listen to them, and they're like, hey, by the way, the retention drops after 60, 90 seconds, we gotta cut it down, then we gotta change the format or the platform or whatever, because you know, you're trying to achieve this, but you want to go to this platform, and they don't know, and that's okay. But if you didn't listen, you didn't ask the right questions, you're never gonna get the right solution.

Jason Cannon: 44:30

We need to know what result they want, not what product they want. Yeah, you know, it's like they don't know that. Like people say, how much, like on the purchase side, how much for a session in digitals or whatever? It's like, okay, well, I I get that you want that because you don't really know how to ask, you know, that then it's always how much, how much for this, how much for that. And it's like, but in reality, the result is gonna be in the business world, especially when we're coming alongside. What is our goal? Is to tell a story.

Vipul Bindra: 44:57

Yeah.

Jason Cannon: 44:57

Well, how can we tell a story if if they're if we're just defining products?

Vipul Bindra: 45:01

Yeah.

Jason Cannon: 45:01

And we know our products, and they do too. That's a bullet list. I mean, come on. Yeah, but what I don't know is that personal, oh my gosh, this is why you do this. This is the why that I asked a client earlier today. What is your why? I just finished doing all this medical equipment on a wall, and he was so he was almost shaking, so excited every time he's moving some of the pieces. And I'm like, he's so passionate. I love this. Yeah. And I'm sitting here going, What is all this stuff? I have it's a foreign world to me. So at the end, I'm like, what's your why? And then he tells me it makes it makes everyone in the room safer at a hospital. And I'm like, ooh, well, that's a big deal. Yeah, that could be a life or death thing and a life or death thing and an ER, right? And I'm like, that's a big why. And uh, and it it it cut cut cuts costs and just helps take the pressure off of that. Well, that's a big why too.

Vipul Bindra: 45:49

Yeah, you know, and that's a very important why.

Jason Cannon: 45:51

I mean, between those two things, between those two things.

Vipul Bindra: 45:54

I mean, uh what you're doing, what they're doing is important, but had you not asked, you would have never known, right? It would just look like some pieces of medical equipment, right?

Jason Cannon: 46:02

Yeah, and then you you know again, it's like framing yeah, yeah, framing the story, but it's true. You know, if we're capturing this, it's like, well, we know the story. I could do a post or I could do a referral or whatever, and I could be like, Oh, this is why you got to go with this business. This is one of my clients, and this is why he does this. Look at this, isn't this amazing? And all these pieces all come together and can be moved, right? Yeah, it it helps us be able to really tell other people's story past photo and video, even though the product yeah.

Vipul Bindra: 46:33

So, what what cameras do you use currently? What's your camera of choice?

Jason Cannon: 46:36

I know we know it's canon, but what's the still in the Canon uh DSLR code? So um, so and and honestly, it's like so much has gone to to the uh mirrorless, but I would have to replace the whole system. Yeah, and it works fine for me. I used the the Mark III's, Mark IVs, um and uh and those are fine. And uh I just got a used one, you know, uh Christmas time, Black Friday last year, because I still I still think they're fine for me.

Vipul Bindra: 47:06

Yeah, because you're uh you're and I know a lot of photographers are prefer having a mirror, even though mirrorless is where where the the trend is. Uh they still prefer the mirror because of you know uh the way you know you you you see the image. Now is there is there certain like uh lenses that you prefer? What's your favorite like I don't know, portrait lens or whatever?

Jason Cannon: 47:25

For events, the the 24 to 105 uh F4 Canon lens just stays on my camera exclusively for events, unless it is a really tight space and I need the super wide you know 16 to 35 that I pull out just if I absolutely have to be in like really tight space. Ooh, we gotta get it right. Other than that, that 24 to 105, same with weddings, um, it's just a great event lens. And it's and it's not the most expensive. Yeah, like you could get that lens, it's very sharp, it's very fast, but under a thousand dollars. But it's under a thousand bucks, and again, you can get I I encourage people, the quality of used gear now is plenty good for professionals, like like the the professional series, yeah, right?

Vipul Bindra: 48:06

And uh yeah, because it's still L series glass, and uh also uh what's your what about portraits? So when you do headshots, is there certain four focal list you prefer?

Jason Cannon: 48:16

This I break away from the L series, I used 85 and it's not the 1.2, uh-huh, the big professional one. Is it the 1.4? Because yes, it's like less than 500 bucks.

Vipul Bindra: 48:30

I love the but not in canon, but yeah, my favorite uh like uh tight list is 85.142. It's in the Sony world. Same thing, they make a 1-2. Uh don't use it, it's only a 1.4.

Jason Cannon: 48:41

If you're not gonna, I tell the young people who are or any of the people in the ego for gear, look, uh-huh. And I'm like, really? Why do you shoot that at one two?

Vipul Bindra: 48:50

If you do not, you don't need the one two, especially in photo.

Jason Cannon: 48:54

You if yours, if I'm this close to you, a one-two, the tip of your nose is sharp and everything else looks weird. Exactly.

Vipul Bindra: 48:59

It's different now. In video, we will use one four. I mean, even the cinema lenses we just got. Funny enough, uh, the the all they're one four, and we will actually shoot uh a one-four. Oh, you do know they're one four, huh? Yeah, uh, so so but but that's video, right? Because we want the depth. It's completely different in photo because you guys can crank up the shutter speed or whatever. We're talking about the 180-degree shutter angle. So, you know, it's not, it's we we can't, you know, I don't know. I we can't change the for me. The way I treat is like it's uh shutter angle cannot be changed, ISO cannot be changed because it's native ISO only. Then you're left with like aperture, it's uh one four. So you're you're left with literally the only thing you can change is ND filter, and that's it, which is which kind of limits you, and and that's what I uh what I tell people like a lot of people think, oh, I can do this, I can do that. And I'm like, yes, you can, but uh as at least to me as a good DP, you already know the look you're going for, the feel that you're going for. So what you're gonna do is you're gonna already figure out this. Like before I leave, I've already figured out the settings I'm gonna shoot at, but that doesn't mean it's gonna work in the location, and that's where you can control two things either lighting or you can control uh ND filter. But I know in photography it doesn't work that way because you can change shutter angle, you can change aperture, you can change a lot of things. So it's I think that freedom uh is what makes it easier.

Jason Cannon: 50:20

Uh a dynamic range is incredible with uh high resolution and these cameras now. You know, you got three stops on each side. I mean, it and it's not to say to be lazy, it's just to say, you're saved in some situations. If you really need to, if you need to utilize that, you can.

Vipul Bindra: 50:39

So, what do you use for editing them to use Lightroom? Lightroom. Have you switched to anything AI? Have you experimented with anything?

Jason Cannon: 50:45

I have experimented with some. Um, what's one? Shoot proof was one that I tried that I've tried. And um, and I even tried to run a wedding through it one time, and I just uh I would get for calling and I would get him back and I'd be like, whoa, they missed a lot. Yeah. And uh so or no, what it was after after shoot, I think was the name of it. I'm sorry, I can't get the exact one uh of what it was. I think it was after shoot. Um so yeah, I tried it and I didn't really love it. And there's careful about it, but uh because again, I don't want to throw a certain company under the bus because it may work for somebody else. But there there's a definite group of us serious, again, especially more in the high end of photographers. That's like that's a laziness with editing if you're just depending on too much AI to just do your work. If you're telling a client, you know, I carefully go through all of your images to make sure we have the best ones, and then AI is culling and missing something. Yeah, exactly. A disservice to your client at minimum and dishonest at best.

Vipul Bindra: 51:50

Yeah, you need to, I think AI has its place, but it's not 100% replacing a human. It's it's it's it's it's there to supplement us. I see the role for it, and we use it. Like I use chat GPD all the time. Uh, but at the same time, I don't think it replaces me. No, if I didn't give it the the feedback, for example, just talking about chat, like if I didn't tell it what I wanted it to say and it just wrote me for a little more professionally, it's one thing. Then for it to just completely come up with something, then it's like, uh, that's not my words, yeah, right? That's not me. Same thing with photography. I'm sure uh, you know, there's a tool that's like, oh, I just want the white balance to be this or that or whatever, and it can, I don't know, auto figure it out, like, you know, with the ad that would make more sense to me. Uh, but then, you know, where it's just like, hey, color this, and then it just does whatever it thinks you should. And then it's like you it doesn't take care of the mood, the personality, the branding, you know, all the other stuff that you think about as um as you, uh the AI doesn't know that information, and unless you somehow feed it that, how does it even know that? It doesn't, it just simply doesn't. It doesn't matter how good it gets.

Jason Cannon: 52:57

The biggest one, though, the best one that we're enjoying as photographers is object removal with generative or without generative. And it can be a lightroom or Photoshop. I I like the one that's in Lightroom, and that could be like just some background element, and and say you're at an event or something, and there's just some background thing coming out of somebody when you're just like, oh, can we just get this pole out of here or something, right? And it's not laziness as a photographer, and it doesn't change the photograph, it just kind of you know, kind of cleans it up just a little bit. And I don't feel like, and again, that's not up for awards and things like this, doesn't change the subject, doesn't change their face or any of that.

Vipul Bindra: 53:35

No, I'm and I'm all for it. Yeah, exactly.

Jason Cannon: 53:37

I like that, or extending uh backgrounds and things if I was doing a canvas wrap or something or something.

Vipul Bindra: 53:42

And that's exactly where we do. Using generative fill in uh video. I love that being able to go in Photoshop, taking, like you said, where we wanted to go wider, but we couldn't. Yeah. So you can go in, fill a frame, then you know, we can mask the subject into that frame. So even though it's a photo, it becomes a video, and then all of a sudden, you know, you you you could go from I don't know, 35 to a 21 millimeter or whatever if you wanted to go wide, uh, and just couldn't because of the location. So that is one of my uh favorite things that uh generative AI can do, and that's where I think AI uh is a really good add-on for us because there's that information didn't exist. Yes. So so so there's no way like we could have done any better. It's it has to be done by AI, and it's pretty good at that. It's you know, you have to play a little bit, right? But it can especially I'm talking about like creating, you know, extending your background or whatever. You if you play with it a little bit, you can get really good results.

Jason Cannon: 54:35

Yeah, and like I just mentioned, taking out a light pole or you know, different people in the background and bright bikinis at a beach or something that you don't want. You know, it's just things like that that it's like it just kind of quickly cleans it up, but doesn't alter the subject too much or cause the image to have a fake sunset put in it. Nothing like that. I mean, just really like you just said, it's like it's a situation. A lot of times we're in an event, we're in something that's moving. It's not like we're able to just stand there and say, Oh, hold on, everyone, could you please move because that poll's in your head? It's like, no, we gotta go, you know.

Vipul Bindra: 55:08

No, but what do you see in the future though? Obviously, it's it's new. This is everything's trying to be AI, but let's let's give it 10 years, 15 years, it actually does get good. Do you what what where or what do you rather see what happened with AI in in less of 10 years? And it's just a thing.

Jason Cannon: 55:26

Being a people photographer, my hope is that it doesn't get to the point where it's just altering uh altering the looks of people. I did I don't like that. Yeah, I feel like you know it's like we do enough even in the headshots, yes, we do some retouch, right? Yeah, um, but we don't want it to get to where people just aren't even looking real people or yeah, we're plugging people in here and there. I mean, you could already could replace people with you. You could like randomly just put them in. And and honestly, I could see it going that way. I could see that it really could be where, like, oh, okay, well, was that person really there? There's a video of that person or there's a photo of that person, but I don't think they're really there. Yeah. Uh so it could go in a lot of ways that just compromise the integrity of our profession, yeah, right, to the point where people can't tell. And then it becomes, well, how do I know I can trust Bindra and that you're not gonna fill in the blank?

Vipul Bindra: 56:26

Exactly. And also, plus what you're doing, it'd be one thing trust if somebody gave you, I don't know, a photograph to come up with or something, I don't know, as art. That's a different thing to me than what you're doing. And uh, you know, as an event photography, uh, let's say, or corporate photography, you're there to capture the moment that hasn't happened. AI doesn't know this, AI is not there, the events never even happened. Yeah, so I don't know how that replaces you or the event or whatever's happening that day. So uh, yeah, I don't know how it's gonna evolve, but I I I yeah, I completely agree with you. Hopefully, it doesn't change the integrity of it. Like you take a photo, you put in the software, and the person comes out looking great, but it looks nothing like them.

Jason Cannon: 57:07

And that's the talk in our professional photographers, circles and and mentors, you know, up the chain.

Vipul Bindra: 57:12

Yeah.

Jason Cannon: 57:12

Um, when they're asked that question, the real top, the the lifers of our industry that have done it all right, when they're asked that question, and it's a podcast with them. These are the answers I've heard from them, and I'm just like, that does make sense. It's about our integrity of our art, and there's fine lines, and those lines are gonna move. So as they move, then what we're talking about now in 10 years be like, we're really talking about that. It's like, well, generative AI is like ah, right?

Vipul Bindra: 57:41

Yeah, I still remember, like it's and it's so crazy. I'm not that old, but it, you know, again, the nostalgia factor, I see it because I go, oh, GH4, I still remember getting the first 4K camera. I'm going, this is game-changing, you know, blah, blah, blah, going from the cannons to the panel. And now I'm like, I think about it, I was like, I thought that was and now it's like uh we're even talking about filming into filming back. Exactly. I'm like, my cell phone does better than what I was amazed by just a few years ago, how fast this is moving. You're right. What's probably actually gonna happen in 10 years, we can't even think of right now.

Jason Cannon: 58:15

But here's one thing I am thinking about because we're talking about DSLR for cameras and now the mirrorless, it and how the word I would use is mirrorless, that I that I always hear from people is how intuitive. Really, it's like from eye movement to focus and just all the ways in which it's very intuitive. Well, like our cell phones, you know, they're they are, they're very intuitive. Um, what if that intuition turns into uh AI within the cameras? Yeah, then it's it's like I could really see that. Like the technology within the cameras is then now you've got these AI settings in your camera. We're laughing right now, but in 10 years it'd be like, we were laughing, and oh my gosh, look at this, right? That's where I could see it. The technology is getting so much in the cameras, yeah.

Vipul Bindra: 58:58

And and I do like to be honest, it it depends, like you said, it it's how it's used. Yeah, I wouldn't like it if I go in there and it just magically, you know, made people like you know, slim or whatever. I don't know. I don't think we'll our beauty filter, but at the same time, I love how Sony's using AI. So some of their newer cameras that have come out, they have a focus chip that's AI. Nice. So AI is figuring out who the person is and who's not, so it can focus on the person. And I'm like, and I've seen the results of the cameras that have AI, like none of these have it, but they're newer because you know, these are the cinema line. But uh some of their new alpha cameras uh have this chip, and the autofocus is incredible because it's it's it's so you can preset the person, all right. I want you to follow um yeah Trump over there, whatever. And I don't think you have to do it. That's the point of AI, right? It just smartly recognizes it. And obviously, if for some reason, let's say didn't get it right, you can tap where you want it to focus. But usually it's so smart enough that it just does it. Like you don't have, you just you focus on. Framing and you know, getting the right angle or whatever, you don't have to worry about that it's going to be in focus or not. And that's where I'm like, yes, please give me more cameras with that. Because that's a different type of that's just helping us do more of what we're doing. That's where I'm I'm happy with them. Like, absolutely. And I love them. My favorite thing where I think it should come to professional cameras. Like, I can right now pull my iPhone out, I can point here, no proper lighting, no nothing, probably backlit. Yeah. And it will make sure that the shot is focused on me. It's also uh uh like you know, I am I'm well lit. Now obviously skin tones too. Yeah, skin tones. So it's it's obviously doing software magic, yeah. But the truth is it works versus on these cameras, unless you just get it absolutely right, there's no other way around it. That's right. And I'm like, if my tiny little iPhone that only costs obviously a lot less than these very, very expensive cameras, then why can't we get such a chip, whatever the Apple chip is, or or maybe it doesn't have to be Apple, whatever Sony chip or Canon chip, uh, why can't our cameras do that? Can you imagine if, like you said, it's already high dynamic range, but can you imagine how much more dynamic range we could have? Where because that's what iPhone is doing, right? It's taking the sky and crunching it, taking the the shadows, crunching it, so you get more in the same thing. Why couldn't these big cameras do that? They have better sensors. If this tiny sensor can do it, short, they can do it with this sensor, but it hasn't come yet.

Jason Cannon: 1:01:23

No, but I was at the beach yesterday doing a photo session, a family session at the beach, and uh, you know, we get past the sunset at right at the end, the light's gone. Light's gone. And then they wanted a uh picture, you know, with their phone down at the water. So I pull it out, I pull out uh their phone and I look at them, whoa, what just happened? They just got bright and their skin just turned, and then like the sky just turned nice. My camera straight up without editing doesn't look like that.

Vipul Bindra: 1:01:49

Yeah, it's because that it's software, it's not the hardware because the the sensor's tiny. That's what I'm saying. If they can do what they're currently doing with the tiny sensors in our phones, imagine the same processing what it could do on this on these large format cameras um or full-frame cameras. I think, but but they have to make that. I don't know why that hasn't happened. Uh it doesn't make sense to me. See, if I look at that way, I'm like, why are we like start making cameras and video cameras? Dude, you you would be geeking out or all that stuff. I'm like, I I don't know how much more money I could give to Apple and I have way too much Apple thing, but you're absolutely right. If you were to put what their latest DSP, the whatever signal processing they do on their phones into a legit cinema camera, right? I am not even joking.

Jason Cannon: 1:02:35

And I bet it would be way simplified for video and photography, in other words, just not as bulky. Somehow they would find a way to make it where it's just so such a smooth uh experience to handle.

Vipul Bindra: 1:02:51

Exactly. No, I am all for uh, like I said, uh I'm all for Apple uh, you know, making a cinema camera or even a photography camera. Yeah, but I don't think they're going to because that the iPhone is their camera, unfortunately. I think what we need is one of these other companies to come up with such signal processing because I don't know, I get it, they couldn't do it, let's say, at the same time as Apple, but Apple's been doing this for five, ten years now. They can they can catch up at this point, especially Sony. They already have AI chips in their cameras, it's just not processing the image, it's just doing the focus. So I don't know why they couldn't, but I I would love to see that is what I'm saying. Next three to five years, I would love to see what technologies in the phones come to bigger sensors. Now, whether that means Apple makes a phone with a bigger sensor, that's fine with me, or one of these companies just puts a chip like that, I think that would be incredible. Uh yeah. You heard it here. Yeah. First.

Jason Cannon: 1:03:47

If only we were software developers, yeah. Exactly. We could only, yeah.

Vipul Bindra: 1:03:51

I'm sure we're making I'm making it sound very simple. I'm sure it's way more complicated. Oh, yeah. I'm sure somebody at uh Canon or Sony's already thought about it like a million times. Um now, what's what type of photography is your favorite? Like I know you do like obviously personal portraits, events, corporate headshots. Uh, what what do you like to do? What's your uh uh at least preferred option?

Jason Cannon: 1:04:11

My very favorite and and has been for years is high school seniors. I love high school seniors, not cap and gown, formal, the ones that they do for the yearbook. But it's such a special milestone year when you're a kid and then you're about to graduate high school. And that photo session is way different. And we didn't have this back in my day where you had, you know, you could go out and get lifestyle photos, uh, you know, with a professional photographer for senior photos. It was like you line up, you get your cap and gown, and you get out of there. Yeah, that was it. And they look, oh man, we should, I should send you the one from I had the mullet going and it was like terrible. Oh man. It's like no one loved them, no one loved that. But the the um the kids that go with me, um, and uh and Thomas Lightbody's the same way with TK photography, man. He's he's like my high school senior, you know, mentor of all of it. He's just like phenomenal. Uh he's the standard out there in West Orange. It's just he just really captures it and and it inspires me too, people like him, where I'm just like, man, I just want to go so far overboard for them because a lot of them it is going to be the only photo shoot outside their wedding, probably. But the wedding isn't just about them. This would be the only photo shoot they ever have that's about them.

Vipul Bindra: 1:05:29

Yeah.

Jason Cannon: 1:05:30

So it's very significant because it's their entire team legacy. And the guys, uh, all right, cool. Yeah, we're done, whatever. But their parents are like, Thank you. I can't get pictures of him. Yeah, you know, and and most of us guys don't like getting our picture taken, myself included. Uh, but the girls have so much fun. So it'll be me and the and the high school senior girl and her mom. And her mom's having fun. I put her mom to work, you know, and she assists and it's bonding with her daughter. And then at the same time, you know, the the high school girl is just having so much fun, feeling like a model for a day. She's changing outfits two or three times, making me feel like a rock star. And at that same time, at the end of that, it's a big, big memory, a big part of their senior year. And I'm proud of the artistry of it because of the personalities that I'm capturing and that legacy that is just um is that we're really able to capture. It's just that's a passion project.

Vipul Bindra: 1:06:19

No, that actually sounds awesome. No, because uh, like you say, it's not like they graduate high school every day. And these are some good memories to have because, like you said, you're not only band bonding uh you know their parents into it, you are also giving them pictures that they're gonna for sure look back 10, 20, 30 years from now and uh you know cherish those memories. Yeah, because they love them.

Jason Cannon: 1:06:42

That's a that's a big thing I take. I'll show them in the back of the camera. Hey, that's a big deal because if the senior doesn't like your picture, then then especially if it's the girl, she's just looking at mom, like uh get me out of this, right? Unfortunately, I don't get much of that because the second I show that senior, like, oh wow, oh, that's awesome! And then it just fuels a session. Two seconds of awkwardness over. And I again I'm in my 50s, but you know, I can't even sit here. You know, I have so much energy. I'm very high energy. I do marathons, you know, I've done Iron Man triathlons. I'm running with my boy now, my 13-year-old. And you know, I just I I love things that that have a lot of high energy, and those sessions just go. We just we're all over the place having a blast. Downtown Winter Garden, downtown Orlando, all kinds of different places. Disney, whatever.

Vipul Bindra: 1:07:24

You know, wow, that's that's so awesome.

Jason Cannon: 1:07:26

So you asked the Passion Project. That's definitely the Passion Project. But the why is because it's a very big year for that person, and for the rest of your life, if you think about it, when in the world are you ever gonna get a portrait that's just you ever again?

Vipul Bindra: 1:07:40

And most people, like you said, nowadays, younger people, even my age, like we didn't like do photo sessions. So it's it's really cool that it's an opportunity for them to, you know, dress up, be a model, like you said, express themselves, get some photos, get some memories. Uh yeah, I mean, uh, that sounds pretty awesome. Uh what is the most lucrative though? So this would be what you like, right? But where is the the money at? So if somebody's listening, what type of photographer should they do?

Jason Cannon: 1:08:06

I mean, the obvious glamour one is is luxury weddings, you know, and that's that's an average of you know between five and ten thousand for me, and uh and for the really devoted long-term wedding photographers, they could make fifty thousand dollar weddings, you know, especially being near Disney and doing the big Disney weddings. You know, the I know several photographers that that do really well with that. Uh, they're totally devoted to it, they've done it for many years, and the standard is very high. Yeah, so breaking into that is decades, right? But it's also it's you you gotta really want that, yeah, you know, and it's a whole totally different thing. So that's the glamorous one. Yeah. And um, and again, my average between five and ten thousand per wedding for really full, you know, full size, you know, really good wedding. Um, on the corporate side, um, it's branding, commercial photography with branding. Yeah. So, in other words, you know, it's like you either get stock photography of your business or you get branded images with licenses, and you get to use those images. Um, and uh, and those vary wildly just depending on the size of the business. And I'm still aiming high for bigger corporations of that. So it's it's branding photography on that, and those can be tens of thousands of dollars for licensing, and that licensing it keeps coming every year.

Vipul Bindra: 1:09:27

Exactly.

Jason Cannon: 1:09:27

You know, which is so if you're gonna go corporate, then you need something that's gonna keep coming with licenses or businesses that keep coming for the events every year, right? And and in the event world, well, you get an hourly rate, usually a 250 to 350 an hour of hourly rate kind of thing. Uh, and then the only way you you it's really the ceiling, the only way to upscale that is to add in headshots. So if you're adding in, or it's got awards people, and you're adding in portraits with awards, it's something where there's additional um valuable digital assets that the company can use while they're gathered for for a corporate convention or event. And that's really where I'm headed now. That's the direction I'm headed now. So that's why I was meeting with the destination management company yesterday, talking about that so I could do events and then tie in the headshots and awards. Again, it's another level of trust with the photographer that goes. All right, we're gathering the executives. Um, I here's a perfect example. Um, Ayapa is the short for the theme park, a global theme park association headquartered here. Well, their board of directors, board of directors is from around the world, and they gather every November for their convention that's always here, and their headquarters is here. So they call me every year now. I've done it two years, so I made it a year too. They love it. Yeah, this time I went to their headquarters, and as as all of them came in, one's from Italy, one's from Germany, one's from South America, some of them don't even speak English. But their staff would help me gather them. We preset, I went before the day to really scout everything. We preset them up and we did a whole board of directors photo and then a new headshot of each one right there, and it all had to be done within that lunch hour.

Vipul Bindra: 1:11:18

That's crazy.

Jason Cannon: 1:11:18

And um, and we, of course, we knocked it out, and um, and I'm proud of that, and that's a perfect example though. Of this is how if you want to go into corporate, it's not as glamorous, that sounds whatever. Weddings, glamorous, whatever. The real bread and butter is there's a convention, there's 5,000 people, and you're gonna do say 500 or 800 headshots.

Vipul Bindra: 1:11:40

Exactly. That could and that's a production.

Jason Cannon: 1:11:42

Yeah, we would have multiple stations set up in our our photographer area. I I use my contracted partners, and everybody set up your station and make it consistent, and uh, and then each each person's headshot has a cost to it. Yeah, but the business gets an incredible value because we're bundling all this, everybody's getting it done, and it's such a hassle to get headshots, and then you're tying it into the event.

Vipul Bindra: 1:12:08

That's incredible. And no, and that like you said, that could be lucrative too on the business side of things because every headshot has a cost, and you times that by a huge number of people at a huge event, and that can that can be a significant amount of money, big time, and that can also you know fuel uh those smaller passion projects. Like you said, you you can go now do a few more graduations where it's not the big money, yeah, but it's something you enjoy, right? Yes, and so yeah, no, I love that uh that aspect of it, and and that's why I've been amazed by that's usually what we have to partner for, is either event photography or headshots. Yeah, like how many companies just need headshots? You know, uh it's it's you would be amazed, right? You would think, oh, everyone has a headshot.

Jason Cannon: 1:12:48

No, you go to websites or you go to LinkedIns, and it's just like terrible. And and like I was telling you, it's like I see this AI one, and it was a person that's been reaching out to me but didn't follow through. And for not because they're a bad person, whatever, it's just life gets you. I always say this because again, we're listening, right? I'm like, why don't you get a headshot? The most common objection, it's such a hassle, it's just such a hassle. So the problem that I want to solve, and I'm still on a mission to solve it, right? Is the the problem that you solve is how do you make it not a hassle? Yeah. Well, if they're already gathered, they're all together, yeah, go set up and then make it seamless. Let them pick their picture on the spot before they walk away, approve of it. So we'll set up live tethering so that they have their image tethered, and then they walk over from the camera to their image and go, uh, I don't like that. All right, back over here, sir, ma'am. Let's take care of you. Then they go back, oh, I approve. Okay, boom, emailed to you. You're done.

Vipul Bindra: 1:13:44

Done.

Jason Cannon: 1:13:44

Yeah, that's a little bit of retouch and they're done. Couldn't be and they're so happy because they're like, I've been, I've been needing to do this forever.

Vipul Bindra: 1:13:51

Yeah, and you made it seamless, you made it easy, they were already gonna be there anyway. Yep, yeah. No, I love that. So, how do you go about so talking about uh, you know, for for other photographers, if they wanted to get into this business, how do they do they go get these clients? That'd be the toughest thing, yeah, for businesses. Let's say they want to get event this into event photography, they want to do these headshots. Yeah, uh, how would they go about even getting into this business?

Jason Cannon: 1:14:16

Yeah, and uh remember, so corporate is different than portraits and weddings, where a lot of that is relationships and personal referrals and things like this, but then we switch to the corporate world, and a lot of it is making sure that we are in business community, right? It's still about relationships, it really is. But there's another side of it, and that is um, and we're actually um myself and my team have been going through this course on uh SEO for this particular specific type of photography and how well it works because especially here, we've got a lot of people coming in from around the world really um for conventions and conferences. Well, they don't know relationally the photographers, so they're Googling, we need a headshot photographer in Orlando. So I just finished a course and I'm gonna keep I'm gonna go through it again of just how to boost our SEO to get in that top two or three. And there are easy ways, it takes time.

Vipul Bindra: 1:15:18

You said it earlier, nothing's no SEO is one of the most hardest things, it changes all the time, right?

Jason Cannon: 1:15:24

So there's things we can control, yeah. And um, with the way we're writing blogs, with the way that we're you know coding the photography when we put it in there and and all that. Um, but our next goal is to really utilize SEO. And I've got a photographer friend that that 90, I think almost 90% of her business. Well, it's actually the one that did the course, 90% of her business is headshots, and the vast majority comes from SEO.

Vipul Bindra: 1:15:49

Yeah, that's great.

Jason Cannon: 1:15:50

So she must have good really good SEO, really good SEO, and it wasn't instant, right? It takes there's a six-month delay, right? Or a four-month delay, and then it starts to click in. Uh, but again, on the business side, on the corporate side, well, we're in a it depends on your market. But if you're talking about Central Florida, yeah, how can you maximize destination? You know, and companies that travel to here, yeah, because this is a huge thing. They don't know anybody, yeah. So, like I said, it's destination management companies. That's why I'm reaching out to them. Uh, it's SEO, and then on the ground, it's people who are are running businesses and well connected to just keep networking.

Vipul Bindra: 1:16:28

Yeah, yeah. That's actually very smart. You know, you want to tap into the industries that you want to be because they're already coming here. We have an advantage of being in a location that's kind of like the tourism capital of the country, it's not the world. People want to come here and they already do. Conventions come here, conferences come here. Literally, my friend uh from Canada, the only time I see him is when his company does a conference here. So I get to see him because his company literally flies him to Orlando to attend a conference. And good for us, free, you know, free time to see your friend. So this happens a lot where you know people come here and we are right here. So if you can get into the mix or connect with the people, you know, or the decision makers or whoever and make their life easier, they can have a trusted partner. And good for you is where, like you said, it can be a volume game. Not only are you giving them quality stuff, you can maximize the number because the amount of the headshots or photos that you can do at the same time. So it it's available.

Jason Cannon: 1:17:25

Like I said with the Ayapa, with the tourism or um theme park association, uh, is that they it's every year. So they do some people do a convention in a different place each year, but a lot of people, it's Orlando. Yeah, and especially if it's a winter event then or a northern state, then you're coming to Florida in the winter. So you keep it in Orlando. Yeah. So, in other words, for business standpoint, it's it's repeat business when you earn that kind of trust. And and believe me, it's like when I'm doing theirs, I'm paying close attention when I'm scouting, when I'm shooting, and then the after. If they ever give me an ass, then I'm like, absolutely. Yeah, you know, I'm taking real good care of the specific things that those people need. Um, because that kind of care is building such a trust that there's no bidding or quotes from all this. They're like, yeah, this is our partner. All right, uh, here's the date of the next one.

Vipul Bindra: 1:18:14

Exactly. Yeah, you don't have to go back through the whole proposal process. They'd already know what it costs you, and even if it's a premium, they're willing to pay for premium, which I also think your rates are very reasonable for the quality of work that you do, yeah, which is also, I think, very important. Like it also depends on who the client is. Like some people tell me, it's funny, my interactions are two opposites. So for some people, uh like you know, people who have no idea what video is, uh, usually they're like the I'm the premium option, right? They're like, wow, you know, this is what I I want to be like. I want to have my company's video made by Bindra. And then when I'm working with Fortune 50 companies, I'm the budget pick, right? They picked me because they could get all of this for a lot less than you know, another company from let's say New York or whatever, uh, because our costs are lower because you know we're in Orlando. So it's so funny, it's just the reference point changes. Nothing I do changes, it's who's looking at it, you know. So for a big company, oh, like nice budget option. There, there's you know, these guys are you know very, very uh, what do you call uh effective with the funds or whatever. They'll they'll they can you know work for less or or do more for the less. And then it's the opposite. It's obvious this is like that much for a video? Oh wow. Right. And right, and then you have to show value. I've never had uh uh the best thing I like working with small businesses, why I like it, even though you know, like you said, the budgets may be lower, is the experience. Yeah, because uh with big companies, they already know what they're expecting, right? When they're hiring a proper production, but with small companies, even my smallest production that I do, which is a basic video, uh, is so much more than any other typical videographer. Because you know, they approach it from a videography standpoint. I approach it from filmmaking standpoint. So when we show up, the the the impression you get is kind of like Kelly. Uh, talk about that. Coming back to it, like we when we filmed her, so she had told me, like, you know, we were trying to fit all these people. In the schedule, right? I had to do 18 video. She was like, Yeah, I'm filming something, but I can be there this time or whatever. And I was like, That's awesome. So she was already filming something, right? Whatever that was. I don't know. But when we showed up, and I was like, Yeah, we'll do our slightest shut up setup so because we want to make it fast. It's like, well, me and Mario, we could try and get this done in 30 minutes. It's not like I have a huge crew, too. It's just the two of us on that one. And funny enough, when we were done setting, she was like, I didn't think it was going to be this huge of a production. And for us, it's like, oh, this is like the tiniest production we can do. And Mario's like, ah, I got my ice cream. Yeah, exactly. And it's so funny. So the way they look at it, it's like, oh, this is a major production. And for us, it's like a so you know, it's like the perspective. And I'm sure if if they hired a local another local videographer to them, that that is a major production. You know, if you're bringing up, like you said, a mirrorless camera or whatever, and and then they're just doing both, and that's most that they can do, or whatever. But it was just funny to me because I'm like, no, this is the fastest, quickest way I can actually shoot where you look good. And you were there, were you the you were there at the Big Orange Awards this year, right? You saw the videos. What'd you think about them?

Jason Cannon: 1:21:07

Oh no, I wasn't at Big Orange. We had uh the Winter Garden Music Festival, the exact same day because they moved Saturday.

Vipul Bindra: 1:21:14

Yeah, which is I didn't see the videos. How did that happen? Yeah, which I I was impressed by that too, huh? Were they yours? Yeah, all well, the all the 18 videos we did this year, the Big Orange Awards. Completely missed that played for you know, each other.

Jason Cannon: 1:21:28

But she moved it to Saturday, Amy did uh prior because you know she wants to serve all the members, of course, and a lot of the members had said it's hard to get other on Friday, so I validate.

Vipul Bindra: 1:21:38

I I I get yeah, what she tried to do, but but yeah, we partnered with them. We basically made uh not only the recap video that we do this year. We actually actually made 18 videos, one for each nominee, basically. Oh gosh, so and which is good for them. They get a free 69 second essentially commercial for free on Chamber's behalf, and you know, good for us, it's just our partnership with the Chamber. So it was a uh you know, bigger partnership this year, I think probably the biggest that I've ever done. Um and and it was yeah, it was a lot of work that we put in, you know. Do you remember that project, Mario?

Mario Rangel: 1:22:11

Yeah, of course. We had like uh a lot of people coming here, a lot of nominees right here we interview interviewing then, and then also we went to the uh some businesses. Yeah, it was great.

Vipul Bindra: 1:22:23

It's really cool, it's right there. We pulled down the seamless, we made it orange, so with the way we did it, we did it uh 12 here, so all the regulars, and then the small and large businesses, we went to their location. So six, we went on location, 12 in studio. So it's really cool. We bring that seamless, we lit it orange, the you know, the nice restaurant chamber colors with the green plants. So there's green and orange. It they came out really good. And then, like you said, we went to uh then um the uh the the six members uh and it that was incredible too, having to like figure out the scheduling, and this is all last minute, you know how it works, and it was just a lot of fun, and then it's so great then you know to see uh their brand you know represented at such a such a big scale because these awards are huge, and then also they have you know all sorts of businesses present there, uh, which is what you know, Stephen and Amy had to say that they loved the videos, but that also uh you know, everyone essentially got a free just by being nominated, so even if they didn't win, they technically got to tell people who they are, what they do, which you don't normally go into.

Jason Cannon: 1:23:26

But have their story and their brand, just personal brand, just yeah, which wasn't there in the last few years.

Vipul Bindra: 1:23:31

So it was like elevating not only the the award show in them itself, but it technically gave each business an opportunity to speak about who they are, and so that was really fun. Uh, I'm glad we got to do that partnership. Obviously, it's kind of costly for us to do it, right? But happy to, you know, again, restaurant chamber. I'm I'm biased, but I I like them, so I was like, I was totally down to do it because uh, you know, that's my one chance. That's all we do, you know. We don't do any marketing, we don't do outreach. At this stage, you know, I've been doing this long enough that you know I have luckily enough people that are in my network that just call me so that the the calendar stays booked, quite literally, you know, uh booked after the podcast before the podcast. So it I'm running on fumes, literally no sleep. Uh, but that's just life. Uh so I'm lucky uh in that way. So I I'm just happy to partner with chambers. That's the only way of outreach I would say I do um is through the chambers that I'm part of. And I think uh I don't know, I find it worthwhile, even whether I get directly clients, but also indirectly clients, because it may not be a chamber member immediately goes, Oh, Bindra, you know, like that, but they go, Oh, I know this person needs video, or this person needs video, right? They can connect you because their network goes further, right? It's like a spider web, it just goes and goes and goes, uh, and you never know where your next lead is coming from. But I think again, people look out for you, like you give back, the community gives back to you. Yeah.

Jason Cannon: 1:24:55

Don't you find that that is a great way because we're both, you know, um you talk about this as far as pricing relating to value, not um apples to apples against other photographers and videographers for the product. Remember, I said that earlier, right? It's like, look, they're similar products. If you throw me in this little bidding war for the small business, and it's they need uh eight headshots for this service business down the street, and then oh, we got another photographer. Well, I'm not gonna get that job. Yeah, and if that's all the all the platform you give me to share about why I'm different is uh I'm the your point person, but I'm not the decision maker, I'm not gonna get that job. Yeah, because my bid is gonna be based on a lot of these things that are are not the actual just product. Yeah, it's like really not, and they're gonna have to find a new bid every single year that's the lowest, and it's gonna be a different person every year.

Vipul Bindra: 1:25:52

And you never know what quality you're gonna get.

Jason Cannon: 1:25:53

And it's gonna be inconsistent, yeah.

Vipul Bindra: 1:25:55

Because you you may get lucky, but usually the lowest people, who knows how long they're gonna stick around. It's one thing you get lucky, somebody's just starting the career and they just want to do a lower, and you're sure you can get them next year, but then they're not gonna be the lowest, right? Or usually, if you do pick, like you said, the lowest every year, then you're just getting the lowest of the lows. And and like I said, that's why I don't compete in price. No, because to me, there's no reference point. Like, like I said, if I'm talking to a big name brand, then I'm probably on the on the lower price point, right? And then I'm talking to smaller brand, I'm probably on the very high price point. So it's like I can't do that, I can just charge what my services cost. Right. What I try to do is very simple. I literally listen, like you said. We just listen. We started here window. And once I figure out what they need, then I can tell them what the range is gonna be. Because what they the biggest thing for me that I don't think at least on the small side is lack of knowledge, is what I do. Right. They think I'm just a videographer and I grab a camera and I'm like, no, I'm your producer, I'm your producer partner. It's like you had a video department in your company, that's who I replace. So you tell me what you need, and I'm your producer guy, and I go, okay, I can do this, or we need to do this, and then I go, okay, what's the budget? Right. And uh and I or I can give them a range because most businesses have no idea.

Jason Cannon: 1:27:09

Or they say, I don't really have a budget, and I'm like, Yes, you do.

Vipul Bindra: 1:27:12

Yes, you do.

Jason Cannon: 1:27:12

You don't know what it is.

Vipul Bindra: 1:27:14

But if I tell you my quote, you know what it is. Exactly. Then they'll say, Oh, yeah, it is.

Jason Cannon: 1:27:17

So right, it's like, oh, well, you have a budget then. Say what it is.

Vipul Bindra: 1:27:21

And then I have to like explain to them how it works, right? I'm like, no, I can do it for let's say, I don't know, I'm I'm just making up a project, but let's say five to twenty K and they're like, How's that range possible? I'm like, very simple. Number of people, number much time of equipment, the time of editing hours. That's right. I can change that. I'm the producer, right? So if you tell me, hey, we our budget is only five grand, I'm like, okay, how can we do this? We can do one shoot day, I can give 15 hours to the editor, I can bring three people on the set or something like that, right? I I can work out the max value for my client because I'm working for them, right? And then if they say, oh no, we can we can spring for 15k or whatever, right? Then I'm like, okay, now I can add multiple shoe days, we can go to multiple locations, we can get multiple shots, but the end result is still a video, and that education element is always a challenge to me because I I kind of hate uh like having to tell them, like, no, I'm your partner, I'm not just a videographer. You want a videographer, you can find them at all price points from free to million bucks. But I am not the the videographer, I am your partner, and my job is to make the most of your money, that's right, right? So I need to know the budget, and if you don't know the budget, that's fine. I can give you a range, then you gotta and then you know it's different. It's not like if you I said five to twenty, you were gave me eight, then you're gonna get the 20k video, right? Where what you give me, I guarantee I'm gonna put it all back into the video, but I can only put back what you give me. So anyway, that that education element is is such a challenge, but it it's fun because what I love about small businesses, then they get the rewards and you get to hear that. Versus big companies, you know, they get the video, they're like, oh, awesome, and then they move on, right?

Jason Cannon: 1:28:58

And they usually have had that, so it's like it's not their first rodeo with it. So they're like, yep, that fits. That's what we're used to. A lot of bigger businesses I'll ask, yeah, uh, what are you used to? What are you used to paying? What are you used to getting? What is your experience like? If I can get that much time to ask three or four questions, those are like the three or four questions.

Vipul Bindra: 1:29:16

Exactly. And then also uh for us, at least, it's asking a reference video.

Jason Cannon: 1:29:19

I'm just like, Yeah, can I see what you've had?

Vipul Bindra: 1:29:22

Yeah, or what you want to have, because then I can give you a price point because I had this recently with a with a client of mine where they showed me a video and I was like, Well, this is incredible. They were like, We want to do something like this. I was like, Well, this video is incredible, but this is a seven-figure video. Yeah, we can't do that. I mean, I I know you well enough. Right. Uh like, can I do that? Yes, absolutely. I've done $500,000, $600,000 projects. I can handle the project, but you you know, not in the nicest way possible. This isn't your marketing budget. We could because we could, if you had that kind of budget, I could make you 10 other videos that will give you the better revenue return. So I'd explain like here's here's what we can do. Let's not spend a million dollars making this. How about we spend 15k and we can get about 90% to 95% there? Obviously, we that that last five percent is where the big jump comes in, right? You gotta get name brand, name actors, and expensive sets, right? It's not the video itself is different. So I'm like, why don't we make the same video but we do it in 15k range? Now you're 90-95% there without that huge threshold that we have to combine.

Jason Cannon: 1:30:27

You can always modify it.

Vipul Bindra: 1:30:28

Exactly. And I'm like, but now here's some extra ideas. Here's what we can do if you really want to go to the next level. These three, four videos will make you stand out compared to your competition more than one video. Then I know for the as soon as I tell you what this costs, you're gonna just be like, nope. Because you know, like small businesses can't afford a million dollar video. That's right. And but but they they can but the reference, if I had never asked for a reference video, I would have never known. Yeah, because sometimes you have to also set their expectations. So they look at the video, they're like, I want that. Yeah, it's like, yeah, but you have to look, there's a name, name actor in there. You you don't want to know what they charge to be in this, you know. And music, yeah. Yeah, music.

Jason Cannon: 1:31:04

Oh, that's not royalty-free music. You want Taylor Swift in here, then I'll just add hundreds right there for that.

Vipul Bindra: 1:31:09

And then also then you can't use the video forever. I like to make my business clients at least videos that they have they can use, you know, for years to come. Of course. If you get Taylor Swift song, you're not getting it forever, you're getting a year license, maybe two year license. Uh and and it's it's a challenge that uh, you know, that that you have like I am the the guy who is to kind of educate small businesses. Uh, but I I love the the response that I get though. The uh essentially the um once they see the video, that's what I love because uh my business has been entirely based on repeat business. Yeah, uh, I don't know how people could keep getting new businesses every month. I'm talking tens and twenty and thirty businesses. I I don't think it's sustainable. I entirely rely on doing such a good job to come back, yeah. You are a partner, yeah. And and it's okay. Some businesses are where you do a few videos and that's all they need, then I use them as more referral partners. They can then find me other people that you know that they know who who uh who need video and then they can recommend me because they loved what we did for them. I'm not trying to just go everyday barn bridges and find new clients, and then to find more new clients. That just seems unsustainable to me.

Jason Cannon: 1:32:19

Yeah, oh of course. That's why we again the advantage of of collaboration to the point of being a partner to re- you just said it a few minutes ago. It's like we really gotta learn what they need and listen and learn what they need, because if we do, then it becomes the when they work with us in the future, you know what I want.

Vipul Bindra: 1:32:38

Right.

Jason Cannon: 1:32:39

And it's like I don't even have to I don't have to go searching around for other people, I don't even have to have a long conversation with you because I'm really busy and uh you know I love you, but you know what I want, right? Right. It's like we get that where it's like just this explicit trust that goes with the implicit trust, and it's just like, oh, this is we've worked hard for that, and that's what we love because year in and year out, or a new uh hire comes, and they need headshots of that, and they're like, I got one new person. Can you come out? Well, of course, you know, of course, yeah, and they'll pay us good for it. I mean, in the same way, they get special pricing, special everything.

Vipul Bindra: 1:33:10

Exactly. And then uh, no, talk about that new client that we had, Mario, that we went and filmed recently, and it was our you know, it's uh it's uncommon, but it happens. I do get new clients, obviously, and and it was so fun to go shoot. But what was interesting to me is before we were even done shooting, the client was already talking about the next shoot. You know, that's what I'm talking about, right? Um, yeah, so so it was so cool that we before you know, it's one thing to wrap up and clients impress. Before we were like done through like five script or whatever, the clients like, next time we gotta do this, this, this, and you know, and I'm like, that's that's amazing, you know, that's what you want. We're already like envisioning how to keep taking it to the next level, exactly, and that means they they see the value, and that's what I like giving my clients. I'm like, and it's really a challenge, but also the challenge I like with new clients because yeah, we're still figuring each other out, right? But it's so cool. And I was like, I was looking at Marian, I was like, see, this is what I'm talking about. We do good for them, they already see the value that they haven't even seen the videos. We're still shooting right now, and he's already talking about the next shoot and the shoot after, and we gotta do this and the next one, you know. And then that's the feeling, at least for me, is more rewarding. I do love doing big projects, I love working with big companies, but it's not that feeling. You don't get that feeling. But when we work with a small business who you help, it just I don't know, it just it makes it worth what what we do, right?

Jason Cannon: 1:34:29

Uh you said it earlier, you were helping like a lot of times the smaller businesses don't know what they want. They don't know what it well, they do, but they don't know they can't get it into their head of exactly how it should look and and how to tell that story visually. And it's like then when we do, then it's like, oh, that's exactly what I was thinking. This is this is better than I then it's like, yeah, we really were able to capture the just the heart of what they wanted to express in the world.

Vipul Bindra: 1:34:56

That's why it takes partnership, right? It takes that listen uh to get to the bottom of what they want, right? It takes a lot of work up front.

Jason Cannon: 1:35:03

Like you're saying, it's like we want to see samples, we want to wanna hear from them if they can explain it right, uh site visit if required. I mean, there's a lot of work up front with the very first time. That's why when it happens again, yeah, it's like, well, all right, I I I kind of know what's coming. Yeah, uh, but that new client, very small business for us and what we do, a lot of times it requires a lot more work. And they're thinking, oh, this is pretty easy. I only need a couple of pictures. Like when I hear, oh, only need a couple of pictures, you're like, uh, we're gonna have to really talk about this.

Vipul Bindra: 1:35:36

Yeah, or or I've had that happen where they're like, you're only gonna be on site for two hours, and it's like, uh, you're forgetting the day that it takes to charge and pack all this up, then the day time it takes to dump all this footage, the time it takes to you know, edit through, parse through all that footage, you know, build find music. Just finding music can take hours. Like, you gotta talk to Julie about that. Like, thank goodness I don't do that. But sometimes, you know, because to me, at least in video, a music sets the tone of a video. Oh, right, and and and the if it's various events, somewhere we're going for a serious tone or funny or energetic, but finding the right music, it sometimes takes hours, and clients are not seeing that. Oh, it's just two hours. Because reason number two, I don't want to do video.

Jason Cannon: 1:36:18

Yeah, I mean, between picking the music, the editing, that there's so many layers that create a production of this tour. And that's why I'm videos.

Vipul Bindra: 1:36:28

The only way I can do what I do at the level I do is because I surround myself with great people. Yeah, like could I edit? Yes, could I shoot? But then it wouldn't be the best edit, it wouldn't be the best shoot, it wouldn't be the best anything. And by surrounding myself with people like Mario. You got a great team, which you can do. And it's it's basically what it does is it helps me get the vision right, get sure that everything is gonna be perfect when we show up to shoot. The shoot's gonna go great, and then the edit's gonna go great. You know, that when the client gets a product, they go, Oh wow, yeah, that's what we were looking for. Or this is better than what we're looking for. Like one of the best things we did last year was we worked for this company, and the CEO, and I'm talking a billion-dollar company. Uh, he was like, Hey, this is the best video I've ever seen of my company. And I'm like, that's what we were going for. You know, internally, you just to me that's worth more than any award. I go, Well, thank you. And I'm like, awesome. You know, like this is what we were going for. So I'm glad you see it. That's why you do what you do. Yeah, and then they're happy, we're happy, everyone wins, you know, at the end. Yeah, uh, a lot of people, you know, got paid from that, who was part of that project, so I was able to help my network. So I think I overall everyone won, and then the company was happy about it, right? Yeah, I think that's what it's all about. It's just about making and uh making a product that um that the client loves and that you love yourself. Yeah, totally, totally agree with that. All right, so let's switch gears, let's talk about uh you know a little personal life. So I know a few years ago you you you've been full-time, so you went out of the full time. Tell me more about that. Like what happened and how'd you come back?

Jason Cannon: 1:38:01

I'll back up, I'll back up all the way to 200 nine. And when I moved to St. Pete, I I moved to St. Pete and I'm opening a studio in a completely new market. I know a few people that were that were key people that became part of my team from the beginning. Um, so that's the biggest reason, is like you just said, having the right team helped me. Um, but I'm opening a retail studio, portrait studio, uh, right at the beginning of that great recession. So it's like I open it and then everything just but what happened with that time in the business is the business took off. And over that time, I was booming. And within uh two and a half years of being there, I was top 10% of portrait photographers in the nation as far as revenues and everything. So I was really doing great. So contrast that for a minute. So again, there was just doing really good for all these years and then moved back, and and things are going pretty well, and then COVID hits. And if you're into weddings and events and COVID hits, it's all shut down, yeah. It's all gone, right? And uh, and it really hit me hard. It gutted my business, and I got two kids, one of them's a special needs kid. I mean, that was just a lot, and my my wife's a speech therapist, and she was doing speech therapy and uh all that face-to-face stopped, and it was school-based, and then school shut down. So it was a combination of all the things COVID that all of us, when we hear that word, in some way, all of us have some PTSD, right? Uh, in some way. So it shut down my business, and um, and to the point where I'm like, I gotta, I gotta get other work. And um, I had already before COVID really admired the organization called Healthy West Orange, which is a local nonprofit in West Orange County, and they really are just uh having a mission to make that community the healthiest in the nation. I've got to be able to do that.

Vipul Bindra: 1:39:45

We have filmed there, by the way, me and Mario. Great place.

Jason Cannon: 1:39:48

It's a great organization, right? And um, so even before COVID, I had approached them about in some level working with them and uh, or for them even, you know, I had worked with them, but even working for them and uh then COVID. And then I I just fast tracked that the best I could. And it happened to be they were building the new building. And so uh they hired me three or four months after that. But before they hired me, we hit rock bottom. Our lease for the house got, you know, um, well, we had to move out. The lease was up in May of 2020. Shut down in April. May we had to move out.

Vipul Bindra: 1:40:20

Wow. During COVID, I can't imagine.

Jason Cannon: 1:40:22

So I we just hit up Airbnbs because we couldn't get another lease anywhere else. It was just there was nothing in Winter Garden. And um, so we hit up Airbnbs and then we ran we ran out of Airbnbs and had to get the kids back, and we were essentially homeless until West Orange Chamber stepped in and Scott Balloo with Matthew's Hope put us in. We were in homeless housing for Matthew's Hope for two months until um uh Healthy West Orange hired me and could get on our feet, get another rental house. So we think, okay, we're starting on the road back. Uh fast forward one year to September 2021, my wife turns mustard yellow. And we're like, what is going on? And then she's like, I gotta call her mom who's a nurse, comes over, you gotta get her to the ER. Goes to the ER, ends up her uh liver shutting down, and again, nutshell, uh, liver shuts down. She's in the hospital for 10 days. My kids got COVID the exact same time, so I had to stay home quarantined with them with COVID while she's in the hospital, can't even see her. And then the doctor comes on after two or three days and says, uh, I don't want to bring this up, but uh, we're thinking we have to get her tested because she might have cancer. I'm like, what just happened? I'm like, she goes in and within just a few days, you know, her liver's shutting down, and we're thinking, Oh, uh, who knows? It's not hopefully not too bad. To now you're gonna have to go, you know, extended stay. And uh, and then she goes and gets um and and gets uh tested and gets diagnosed with this this deadly lymphoma and is given less than a year to live, is basically it. Wow. So uh we got that, and that was within a month. So we're just devastated by all this between the COVID year and this the next year, and then um again, nutshell. It's it's an unbelievable story, really is that it was a misdiagnosis. Yeah, and again, I'm not gonna out the hospital because it's like doctors are they're human, it happens, right? Uh, and that um she went to Moffat Cancer Center, and then they're like, it's not this, it's it's a leukemia. Okay, so this has got a leukemia. So again, then another month goes by, back in there, and we go back to Moffat, and it's like, there's no evidence of cancer in your body. The cancer's gone.

Vipul Bindra: 1:42:34

Wow. That's what a roller coaster, right? I mean, first time you told me the story, I was just like, I can't imagine being in your wife and your shoes because obviously it's good. The outcome at the end is great.

Jason Cannon: 1:42:46

We can talk about it now, yeah, and I won't cry like crazy, right?

Vipul Bindra: 1:42:49

But I can't imagine being in that situation where COVID caused, like, like you said, you're doing incredibly well. It's a very successful photographer, and all of a sudden, all events are gone, all conferences are gone, everything's basically done, schools are even remote. Uh so so it's so, and you you know, you thank thank you to Matthew's hope that you at least were able to find some help for the couple of months, but then that happens. Obviously, Healthy West Orange was able to get you uh a job that was a good stability and a good organization, and uh and uh then but then to be hit with this news, I mean, I can't even imagine. And then obviously the roller coaster they went through for months where they're like, Oh, you've one year, and you're like, What?

Jason Cannon: 1:43:32

So crazy. And then that it was a wrong diagnosis, and then she gets this new diagnosis, she's settling into that, and then gets offboarded, and then the next month, which you know personally, this story, she's pregnant, so we end up having this bonus baby, right? And uh, so it's like she goes, Yeah, you get COVID, you got cancer, and then you got the baby, and meanwhile, again, thank thank God for healthy West Orange, just kind of keeping me in that stability and enjoying, just pouring in with them, being on that team. And uh, but then I worked an another year where I would have gone back, but then the baby, you know, the cancer in the baby. Uh so worked another year, healthy West Orange, just staying in that, and then I was like, I can't anymore just resist, you know, staying away from my passion anymore. Yeah, and uh then came back. But it that's the blip. I mean, in any business we go, hopefully we don't have another COVID situation. But over the course of decades, especially, we're gonna have dips in our businesses. Yeah, we we can navigate through it or we can exit and come back. It just depends on everybody's situation.

Vipul Bindra: 1:44:32

Yeah, the point is you can't. There's no way you could have predicted that. You know, nobody could have. And I mean, to be real, what helped me was live streaming because it's not like we were going out and filled in the street. There you go, yeah. You had to pivot, and we were able to pivot uh into live streaming, and that helped a lot during that time. But you're right, yeah, it was a crazy time. But my my whole thing is like the like you said, the roller coaster that you went through to get back, and now you're doing obviously. Uh I remember having that talk with you uh when you were gonna jump right back, and I was like so happy, a that things were back to normal for you. But but you know, like I said, at least you had you know you have a baby, you know, things were things are awesome now. Uh you back, you know, to obviously doing photography and you've been successful the last few years that you've been doing this, but I just can't imagine that little period. But again, to put a positive spin on it, it's just one of those blips, but yeah, it's still real life stuff, yeah.

Jason Cannon: 1:45:24

And uh, and it's like I'd look back and I'm like, did all that really happen? And I know again, all of us have our COVID memories, right? Of wait, did that was it really live streaming? It's like you see ourselves back kind of normal, but even how we've all just reinvented ourselves. It's like, how would I do this over? You know, how how would you do yours over if you could do it again, right? Are you doing things different than before COVID to kind of keep that from happening to impact your business as much? Because I know going more corporate now.

Vipul Bindra: 1:45:52

Yeah, you know, it's uh I mean I got lucky, so I have one of those weird stories where uh, you know, and I've told this story before on the podcast, but January of that year, you know, again, when your passion, like it remember, it went from Bendra Productions was born out of it being bigger than me. So it's no like I'm no longer a freelancer, right? So I go, so we did really good in 2019. So I was like, what are we gonna do this year, right? 2020 starts to January. I go, I'm gonna get into live streaming. And she's like, What? This random thing. So I, you know, buy and obviously there's no mentor, there's no one to teach me. I'm in the middle of Alabama, so I basically just bought all this live streaming here, and I just started practicing and uh any free time I had, and guess what happens? You know, April, the the country shut down. So it kind of like saved me essentially that uh the pre-model. It's a good thing you thought about that, yeah. So while you know, and obviously there was no equipment available, everything was sold out, you know, because everyone needed it. Point is that helped a lot because I was like, A, not only do I have the equipment, I know how to operate it, I know how to execute this thing. So that helped a lot being able to, you know, uh do projects um even enduring that environment. But like you said, that was two things. A somehow getting lucky with the timing of that, but also B, having low overhead. I always made sure that the people that I worked with were 1099s, uh, that you know, we obviously we have some recurring expenses, but they were project-based, right? Yeah, that's why I say like my my pro my expenses are very easy. Project comes in, this is what's going here, this is what's going here, this is what's going here, makes it very easy. I'm like, okay, 80% expenses, 20% come in home. Life is very easier to I'm saying make it make expenses happen versus uh I can't imagine if I had like that many people on W-2s, yeah, letting them go, you know, the whole yeah, the the whole thing, yeah, that would have been uh crazy. But yeah, that was really nice that we were able to write that out. Um, and uh obviously here we are, but the lessons learned. I and then that's why like a lot of people ask me, they're like, why don't you go W-2s or whatever, even now? And I'm like, that's why. Because I learned my lesson already in COVID that what I did was correct. Why would I change that? And it and and funny enough, everyone I knew who was doing successful in video with W-2s, guess what they don't have now? W-2s. Because during COVID, they had to let them go, and then they realized not that we don't give enough work, right? It's just it's a lot easier to keep them as 1099 because then it makes sure they can also still freelance, get projects, but you know, I it makes it easy for me without having all that huge overhead, right? Because if projects for some reason will stop coming, yes, it would be devastating, but it wouldn't be the end of the world because it's not like I have this huge payroll that I have to keep giving, if that makes any sense.

Jason Cannon: 1:48:28

Oh, yeah. I mean, uh what a nightmare. I feel so much for the business, the small businesses that had just three or four employees, and you know, it's like you feel so responsible. Yeah, so it's like just everybody.

Vipul Bindra: 1:48:43

We couldn't do it, especially the first. I think it eased up obviously once we all realized because initially nobody knows what this is, right? Yeah, so it was like just stay in the after a few months, yeah. It's like, what do we do? Like, where do we go? And then I at least I was like, Well, we're essential business, so we're gonna go at least do our work, you know. But like, I can't imagine if you weren't considered essential workers, so if you had to just stay at home and do nothing, I'm like, I I I can imagine, I'm saying the the the trauma uh or or whatever people went through. But uh, like I said, at least we made it past, and seems like things have just been on the up and up for you now, right? How how long have it been that you've been back doing this full time now?

Jason Cannon: 1:49:22

Uh this will be let's see, so that's 2000 August 2023. So now I'm about to two years.

Vipul Bindra: 1:49:28

Two years, wow, and uh see the progress you've made, right? You're and there's still you're doing incredibly well, yeah.

Jason Cannon: 1:49:32

There there's there's like all right, well, so there's still this, right? Yeah, but it's becoming oh, there's way more of this, and then fewer dips.

Vipul Bindra: 1:49:41

But that happens in all businesses. I mean, this happened to me this year. What's crazy is last year I had an incredible year, the best year ever. And then and and January's supposed to be slow for us, right? And we were writing January's was crazy, biggest ever. Yeah, exactly. So at the end of January, I'm like, what's happening? We're so busy, and then come February, dead for me at least. Yeah, and I'm like, this is not normal for me. And I'm like, uh, what happened? And I and I think it may have been a combination of just the economy uncertainty, tariffs, or whatever. So February and March were really bad dead. And and again, I don't want to say it was fully dead, but there was no big projects, right? That's normal. And I was like, what's happening? So for a couple months, like you said, there was that dip where I'm like uncertainty. I was like, Did I do it? And then I asked, you know, that's when you call your your network, your relationship, like so. Checking my buddies are like, yeah, it's been slow too. And I'm like, okay, it makes sense. It's so just it's happening, yeah. And then and then April 1st hit back to it just being the crazy. And I was like, okay, this is weird, but you know, there's nothing you can do, right? Uh but what I liked is was that in that slow period, I was able to go help small businesses, local businesses, you know, stuff that I would normally have to either pass on or or not personally be present, where I was able to go and take those projects, and it's so so it wasn't bad, but it was it was a worrying time for a minute. I'm like, this is not normal. I'm not used to this since COVID, right? And then and then it was just like I think it was just the tariffs, the economy, people were just uncertain, all of a sudden, you know, stop spending. But then back in April, I haven't had, like you said, time since then, and it's been crazy. So uh as a business, we have to be resilient because blips will come, you know. It is always gonna be like this, and you just have to be prepared for when that happens. I think those are the businesses that make it, right? Yeah, that can pass that whatever slump that is, and then you know, because we all know economy always, at least that's history. It uh, you know, it goes down that stuff, yeah. So all you can do is just be prepared and uh run your business smartly, especially until you know it's a small business. Um, you know, uh, and that's all really you and I can do. So true. I don't know what else we could do essentially to prepare.

Jason Cannon: 1:51:47

Yeah, but if it gets slow, like this month has been slow for me. And and uh so I've been taking care of those uh those really great clients, like my my 10-year-old daughter and I, and also bonding with my kids for summer at the same time. So my daughter and I get up early and we bake some cookies, and I'm like, Oh, just take some cookies to my best clients, like the bank branches and things where I'm like, we're dropping off cookies, and I'm like, my daughter and I bake these for your whole team, and you just see their faces light up. I'm like, in busy season, I would never have time to just do that nice little special touch, you know.

Vipul Bindra: 1:52:16

But I think that special touch is what's amazing, right? Now they're gonna remember whenever they need the next cookie.

Jason Cannon: 1:52:21

But he brought us fresh cookies, yeah. You cannot and it was a hard one of the bank branches, you know, is a West Orns chamber partner, you know, and and they were having a bad day. And she comes up to me and she's like, uh before I even gave in, she's like, Oh, we're down three people. And I was like, I have cookies, yeah. Should have seen it, it was so perfect. I was I I felt so good walking out of there because I'm like, I just helped them have a it was kind of a rough day, and I just helped make that it's just cookies, yeah.

Vipul Bindra: 1:52:46

It's simple things. Sometimes, you know, I'll send like a thank you card. It's nothing major, it doesn't have to be crazy, it's just simple things like that, and then and and believe it or not, one crazy thing, talk about again COVID for a second again. I still remember uh you know, Julie's the editor literally going, like, okay, so it's slow time, right? So we have some time from editing because live streaming doesn't require editing. I literally told her normally, you know, there's cost to it, but I was like, you know what? We're going through. So our clients going through, pull up their footage and see if we can make a short little snippet video they can post or whatever. So we did that for a lot of our clients. We were able to just pull some footage, make a little snippet, and give them, like, hey, we know you're going through a tough time. Here's a little extra to post on your social or whatever. And I and I think it's just that little thing, right? Uh, where if we have the time, we have the uh the the capacity to do that, and COVID was definitely that. Do that a little extra. Um, you know, and and I think that's just like you said, that's what builds promoters, that's builds loyal uh clients, that builds people who you know who just love you. And you, you know, it's a real relationship, it's not just give and take, there's more to it.

Jason Cannon: 1:53:52

Yeah, and it it it shows you care about them. You're not just wanting their money from being a client, right? And and I think that that goes a long way because for us, it also tells ourselves that same thing. Like, I really do care about this person or business and want them to feel special.

Vipul Bindra: 1:54:09

Yeah, and and coming to that, the the one last thing I want to say about this is yes, uh the the other side I do want people to be aware because some people take this a little too much. You are still a business at the end of it, like as in uh I'm gonna do anything and everything to help my client. But if they if I can't, then I think being honest and up front is also more than just taking it on. Because I've heard stories from my friends where they go, but I love them. And then you take on a project, let's say under budget or whatever. And then what ends up happening is that even though you think you're doing the nice thing, you actually sell because now you hate yourself and you're there, you're miserable, that means they feel it. It's just it's just not a good thing. Uh, a simple just hey, uh, this this is not the right budget right now, or this is not the right fit, let's do it later when you have more budget, or you know, here's a friend I can click into here, whatever, at this budget right now, and then we can do the bigger stuff later. Something like that. I feel like that's a better fit and a better approach than just saying flat out yes. So again, listen, take care of your clients, but also don't say yes if your heart's not in it. That's such a good word. It's gonna just also not be a good thing. Because I uh because you know, it's okay to say no. Uh, because you know, we are a business at the end of the day, we have bills to pay, you've got family to take care of. And clients understand that. Uh, you know, so so it's okay to say no. Uh, but I think outside of that, um, it's been an incredible conversation. I look at the time, can't believe it's almost two hours. I know this goes by so fast. You know, people when they when they think about it, they're like, two hours? I'm like, yeah, and then when they're done, they're like, oh, it was fast because uh, you know, I can't I've listened to Joe Rogan podcast for three hours with some people. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I think it's just all about who the listener is, right? If they have no interest in photography, videography, it's probably boring. But if but if it is, then I think this is an incredible conversation.

Jason Cannon: 1:55:56

So what you're in the car a lot, yeah, and it's like I'm always listening to podcasts too, just like this. And this is exactly what so many different photography podcasts do, and just could listen over and over.

Vipul Bindra: 1:56:06

And I love giving people real-world advice because uh some old school people I find like want to gatekeep, and I feel like that's just a bad strategy in business. Uh, because gatekeeping leads to nothing. But you uh you know, so I feel like uh being up front, giving people some reference points of price points and type clients and what events you can do or stuff like that is just so much more realistic. Where they're like, okay, this is realistic, this isn't some you know idea that you have in your head. Okay, this is what I can go, I can charge that, I can ask. I think I don't know, it's just helpful when you're new.

Jason Cannon: 1:56:36

It's real, it's real stories of how we do business.

Vipul Bindra: 1:56:40

Yeah, exactly.

Jason Cannon: 1:56:41

That's what I've enjoyed about this conversation. So hopefully people get a lot of benefit from it.

Vipul Bindra: 1:56:45

I same too, and if not, at least entertainment, right? There's plenty of that. Yeah, so thank you, Jason, for coming. Before we go, anything else you want to add? You want to tell people where to go find you? Uh go ahead and tell us that.

Jason Cannon: 1:56:57

Well, uh, my website is uh canonfirephoto.com and um Facebook's Canonfire Photo, Insta Canonfire Photo, but uh and LinkedIn same Canonfire Photo. That's where to find us on social. And um is that Canonfire Photo? Canonfire Photo, and that's a two-in-c-n-n oh-in, not the canon fire. Yeah, and uh that's his actual name.

Vipul Bindra: 1:57:21

I was just joking. He's you're actually Canon, you're JC.

Jason Cannon: 1:57:26

My last name is Canon. Yeah, two ends, though, right? Two ends, right? But yeah, that's that's where to find us. And uh, you know, we're we're always uh posting blog content as well, you know. And I also um I also am really thinking about making a uh Facebook group. Um that I have one right now that is really more um it's uh it's not structured the way that I really want it. So stay tuned on our website because I'll probably blog about it when I create this Facebook group to do kind of something like this, but more in a Facebook group where it's really open of discussion with the photographer and put myself available with QA's and things. So that's coming soon, and we've talked about this a little bit.

Vipul Bindra: 1:58:07

Awesome. That sounds like an incredible idea. Yeah, it's totally free. Yeah, you know, just totally and the same thing. This is this is quite literally unedited, unfiltered conversations that I wanted because I didn't want a polished look into something. This is quite literally two industry professionals having a conversation. That's what I like listening to, because like you said, it's real, not no, I have no agenda, you don't sell no courses, right? We're just doing this because we love what we do and we actually do this for a living. So this is awesome. It's it's been a pleasure. Thank you again, Jason, for coming. Until next time.