Vipul Bindra: 0:04

Welcome. We're back for another season of Studio B sessions. Who can believe there's another season? Obviously, a lot is the same, but we are changing a lot of things. So we wanted to make it better last season. I did it, you know, the fastest way possible to, you know, do this as a passion project where we could share information, knowledge, fun things about video production, help other filmmakers out there. And it was done with one camera, you know, the quickest mode way I could, no editing. We're still gonna keep with that theme. It's gonna be raw, real, unfiltered conversations with no editing, but we did make it fancy. We got multi-cameras. Let's cut them. Let's see. And it's all being live cut. Let's cut. Yeah, look at that. So, so look at that. Alright, so, and then the person doing this is our producer from last season, Mario. So he's helping us produce this. Uh so awesome. All right, and our guest this time is Esteban. Thank you for coming. A filmmaker who's been doing this for a few years. You just moved from Memphis all the way to Orlando, where I am. So welcome. How's it going, man?

Esteban Eordogh: 1:14

Doing good, man. Thank you for the opportunity. It's been uh fun, you know. Uh uh I've helped you quite a bit to set up the you know the the multicam and all that stuff, and it's super fun. Uh when you help people, that is their fat their their passion project, and you know, you're also a gearhead and nerd, you know, when all it comes to all cameras and stuff. So this is super fun for me as well. And thank you for the opportunity.

Vipul Bindra: 1:40

Of course. I uh and that the point of this is just to have conversations with people, you know, and a not only just to just have fun, man. Like, you know, this is what I love, this is the passion, but also there's so much knowledge that can be given to people, you know, who maybe new or even been doing for a while, and just haven't heard because you know, some people in the industry like to gatekeep, and that's just not my style. I'm like, everything should be open, and you get more business when you're more open, not the other way around. That old school thinking needs to go away, right? We can all help each other grow and do better. And uh, what's awesome to me is how we connected. So so just to tell the story, it's so interesting. So I was doing uh the shoot for one of my clients, it's a car company, we need to do a shoot, and uh they had a decent budget, but nothing you know, major. It wasn't like a big manufacturer, so we couldn't just pull, you know, like I have uh tilta, hydra alien, the full size mounts. So we can do a car rig, we can put an FX6, FX3, or 4D run in whatever on it. But I wanted to do we had like two hours, so it all thing we had two tracks, an hour each, and I was like, How's how's the fast way we can do it without cutting the quality? Because my client deserves the best, right? And I was like, Oh, here's a camera that I've been ignoring, which is the DJI Pocket 3, and shout out to Justin, who's here on last season, who put me, you know, who got me excited about the camera. And I was like, that'd be perfect because Tilta makes the little Hydro Alien Mini, which is kind of like the full size, just smaller for the Pocket 3. So essentially that was my plan, right? I was like, I'm gonna bring a couple of these, couple of pocket threes, we can do it fast because of the tracking features. It's a small camera, and we can move fast, but also the footage will be good, having seen the footage. And now the problem, I go straight to you know BH or Amazon, and the camera is apparently sold out because it's popular. And so I go to our group chat, uh, started by David. I was like, hey, anyone got a pocket three? And you reached out to me, and man, you were a godsend on that shoot. You like killed it. I'm gonna help have you take it from there. If you're gonna talk just on your side, what what what happened, you know?

Esteban Eordogh: 3:47

All right. So, first of all, let me preface this with the footage looked sick.

Vipul Bindra: 3:52

Yes, I can't wait to. The project's still not done yet, but I can't wait to share it because uh it's gonna look incredible.

Esteban Eordogh: 3:58

I'm I'm like, you know, so eager to see what we actually come up with that one because it looked amazing. Um that was fun, I will say this, all right. But a little bit about you know how we got here. Um I've been doing this for two years. Then, you know, I own a company uh called Phoenix Films, right? And we started in Memphis, um, and then we started doing some concerts and live events, and um in Memphis, you're not gonna get that type of stuff. So then we got two massive gigs here in the state of Florida, and then we got asked to bid for another big project over here, and then we lost it because you know you can't compete with pricing when you're adding uh flights and hotels and all that stuff, and then I just you know told my business partner and my wife, hey, pack your bags and let's go, and then we're here. Um that has you know its challenges because I was in Memphis for a little over 24 years. So, you know, I had already I know everybody, you know, I know uh uh the mechanic, you know, the guy at the bakery shop, like all the little, you know, all the little ins and outs of the city. I knew that, and then you get to a city that is five times bigger than Memphis, um and you got some stiff competition, okay. Um so you got to a point where like, okay, fine, we did the gigs that we came here to do, and then now what do I do? Yeah, okay. Uh now to take on on the part that you said about gatekeeping and stuff like that, right? I can't agree with you more on that statement because that's how I started with my business partner, too. Um, we both used to do our thing on the side, and then, you know, we message each other and then hey, let's do, you know, one of these like fun projects, and then that turned into like, hey man, can I borrow your you know your 35 millimeter, you know, I got an interview here, and then you know, it got to a point where um I had a big project coming up, right? And I couldn't do it by by myself. Like, there's no way, there's no way I could have pulled this one off by myself. So I was like, okay, we wanted to work together, okay, let's do it. This is the time. And then from that uh project came another project, then it came another project, and it came another project, and then I was like, okay, man, you know, we've been working on five projects together, might as well just go and you know, go and add it together and just you know, start working things as you know, as a team instead of like, you know, uh and life is easier, you know.

Vipul Bindra: 6:47

When you when there's more of you, I've always now to be real, my company technically it's just me, but it there's you know hundreds of people behind it because I'm hiring so many different people. Because at the end of the day, a this is a collaborative thing. Last I I don't see remember seeing a movie with the title credit of one person, right? I'm sure there's some random indie project, but I'm saying like nothing nice can be made because it takes a lot of effort, it takes a lot of people from pre-production, you know, to post-production to everything. And uh and and um if you can find somebody, especially in the corporate commercial field where I am, and you're more like I think in the event space, uh, event production and and and similar to what I'm doing, uh, it's it's easier to have people that you can partner with. So if you two were in the same trajectory and it sounded like it clicked, but you're talking about Alex, right? Yeah, yeah, had a great chance to meet him on that shoot. So yeah, great guy, had fun working with him. So I'm so glad. So now you two came together, right?

Esteban Eordogh: 7:47

So this is another thing that that actually helps when it comes to that. So he is much younger than I am. You know, I'm about to be 45 years old, and uh he's 28. So you know, he's all into the the Instagram and this, everything has to be Instagrammable and go on that, and I'm more into the corporate side of the stuff. So, like um, I was the one to to push, you know, to have an actual website, to do our you know, branding, to do um uh make it look more like an actual company and not just two dudes with you know with cameras, you know. Um and he's the one that actually goes and you know records the cool stuff and puts it on, you know, puts it on the on the social media and and that kind of stuff, you know. So the beauty of that is when we combine two very different styles, okay, things actually look very nice. You know, so uh for example, you know, we got into the uh event stuff because of him, okay? So he like he's the one that likes the music. I'm the one who was doing you know interviews and corporate, you know, corporate commercials and working with restaurants and you know things like that, right? But then you know, you could tell that I had a super corporate style, you know. Uh, and then you know, he started editing, you know, some of the commercial work that we have done. Uh, and then I mean the thing just it just went a whole different route, you know, and customers loved it, you know. So um, you know, we were in it, you know, 50-50 because like we it was a both thing. It's like, listen, dude, you know, you got things that I don't have, yeah, and he has things that I don't have. You know, so uh that's the that's the beauty of it, right? So then to take it even further, right? When we did the project, you know, the shoot the other day together, um, I was actually seeing and learning from you guys and you know, taking things, okay. Oh, you know, what do you guys do that we can incorporate into our workflow, you know? Yeah, exactly. Um, and that's the I think that's where where having a great community of filmmakers, you know, it's it helps at the end of the day, it helps everyone. Exactly.

Vipul Bindra: 10:11

And that's my entire point. You know, I totally believe in here's the truth about the industry, you know, because there's shoots where it's gonna be uh, you know, budgets are shrinking, clients expect more, and that's just the way industry is going. You can fight it, but there is no way to, you know, fight that. Now, obviously, don't I don't want to talk about clients that are trying to take advantage of you. That's a different thing. But I'm saying the industry is going where you have to do more and the and the for less budgets. Point is so there will be projects where you go do them solo, there'll be projects you go do with your partner, and then there will be projects where you need 10, 20, 30 people. You're not gonna have those 28 people on your payroll, right? So at the end of the day, you work with other people. Like just before we started this, I got a text from a buddy who's like, hey, we need some post-production work. Can Julie tap in? And it's like, absolutely, you know, that's why we're here. Because that doesn't mean we're instantly his editor, right? His editor is bogged down with work, but that doesn't mean he's gonna stop taking work, right? You cannot bring on another editor full time because that's not where your company's at. It's like, hey, limited time, we need an extra editor. Hey, buddy, you're my friend. Can you help me out? I hope that makes sense. It's basically all about tapping into your resources and it helps both. It's extra revenue for me, my editor, it's extra, you know, help for my friend, and then it helped in the end everyone wins. I hope that makes sense. You grow together, you win together. This old school mindset, and I find it very much with either people being around in the industry a lot, or just assume that's how it works, because you know, that's just your brain thinks like it's a scarcity mindset, right? Like, oh, there's so much only so much, right? Like, I gotta get it all. And then the part they don't get is there's so much work, right? There's so much work, like the amount of gear, I'm not even a gear rental company, the amount of gear I rent to people who's coming from LA, Atlanta, New York, whatever, in Orlando to film, and we're all right here, right? So there's so much work that we could just be doing, and I'm talking in just our tiny market that is there to go around that there is no reason to have scarcity mindset. That's just in our brain, right? Uh, I have found that anytime I'm open, I'm collaborative, I'm helping other people, it always comes back. So that's what I just recommend to people. And like, look at you. Like you say, you like you said, you were doing great, but now you partner with Alex, and you two can together bring in your personalities together and do better. And and in the end, everyone wins, right? Right.

Esteban Eordogh: 12:36

And you know, the you just said something that is totally true. That what goes around comes around. You know, someday I will help out someone, and you know, next thing you know, your phone is ringing, be like, hey man, I need help with this. Can you can you help me with that? So um, you know, we say in my country, you know, that brings a tail, right? So that brings, you know, consequences, good consequences, by the way. Right? Uh, and then for that shoot, for example, I remember you telling me I don't have budget for that, dude. Don't worry about it. You know, like it's all good. Like, you know, um, you know, someday, you know, it it'll it'll come it'll come back. It'll come back at some point, you know. So like don't worry, don't worry about it, you know. Uh and that's a good thing about not working in a scarcity mentality, just what you said. So that's a that's your you're correct.

Vipul Bindra: 13:27

And you'll be amazed. I've I've done this with clients where obviously, like, for example, I want to work technically direct with clients, right? I don't want to be a day rate person, I want to be a production company. That does not mean I don't have desires to be a DP or help on projects, like you said. So I've had where somebody's like, hey, I just need you today to help me out. Like, I don't need a company, right? I could have that, oh no, no, I'm not gonna help you. And that's the wrong mindset. And you would be amazed how many people were I'm like, sure, I'll come just help you, right? And it's come around, and now it may not have happened right there and then, but I have clients that that I literally met for something really small, and six months later, a year later, they're like, hey, I got this big project. And now you go, Oh, that little project, that little favor comes back because now it's tenfold. You know, it's something much, much bigger. So it's happened to me, and I know it happens to a lot of people that I know that like they'll help someone and they then they, you know, they'll they'll give it right back. Uh, because sometimes, you know, I get projects that are not up my alley, you know, or not the right fit. Then I'm like, hey, here's a contact I know. Maybe they can close it, right? Or maybe they like to do it. So so that's at least the way I operate, and I like I said, I it's worked so well. Uh, it's been it's been a long time since I've been doing this. Uh I started 2010 freelancing, 2018 the production company. Um, but but now like taking back to it, so that's that that's so the how about how we met. What's crazy to me though is that you know, it's one thing, because I for a little bit left Orlando and then came back, but I came back to a city I was familiar with. You, on the other hand, literally took your life and committed to and your wife and committed and your business partner and committing to moving all the way from Memphis, uh, all the way to Orlando, and you not only just moved, you bought a house, so you're committed. Uh how did you get this this huge level of commitment? I hear about the jobs, but you know, it takes well more than that.

Esteban Eordogh: 15:21

I have a I have uh an advantage that I actually do have an eight to five job and I work remote 100%. So the production company for me is it's kind of like a site hustle for the moment, right? Which I'm giving myself three to five years in order to start living off of this, right? Um so that's what made the decision somewhat easier. Now, with that being said, if I wanted to be ambitious, if I wanted to get the the projects that I know we can do, right? Being in Memphis was not gonna cut it. Because I'll tell you why. Uh you just said in our tiny market, like, dude, compared to where I come from, this is massive.

Vipul Bindra: 16:14

Yeah, right. But hey, if you want to know that little time that I was in here, I was in Shoals, Alabama. Talk about Memphis being small. Now that's that's like very, very tiny. So I know I have I've been there. Right. What I'm saying is, and and again, you're I would love to know your experience. But mine was same thing. Everyone told me you're gonna fail because there's no one here to want video production, and whoever wants, there's this already established company. And look, we did spectacular the year one. What I'm saying is that I at least don't believe in listening to negative thoughts. Yes, is it gonna be as easy? No, but the whole thing is you don't have competition. My entire point is if you're in a small market, yes, you have less gigs going around, but it also means more opportunity because it's you and maybe a few other fish in a tiny pond, you know, but you're also tiny fish, so you can go get, you know what I mean, like you it's easier to find work. I was able to very easily go establish myself because I was like, hey, there's only but me and another person or another company. It's not like they have tons of choices. And and they can only handle so much, right? Right. So here I am, uh, you know, establishing myself. So and it worked great. Uh, but go back to Jordan Five Telegram.

Esteban Eordogh: 17:26

You know, here's here's the the thing with that, with that, right? I actually think I took advantage of that because the companies that we were, I'm gonna say competing against, you know, the other the other people that were doing the exact same thing that we were doing, um, they have been in the industry, they have been in the industry for 40, 50 years, yeah. Right. And then you see their their you know, their product, and it's good quality, right? But there's that spice, you know, that it's needed. It's old school, yeah. It's old, it needs to be updated. So they need they and and then we started coming up with like new and refreshing things, and um I started getting to a point where where my customers being were being asked, yo, who did that for you guys, man? You know, so you know, and it's this guy, okay. And and there's there's only two of us, right? So then uh for me, my mentality was really cutthroat, more like you know, I'm not trying to be bad or anything, okay, but I want what they got. Yeah. And and and I started with a phone and a gimbal, right? I did not know two years, three years, almost three years ago, what ISO 12,800 was. I I I had no clue, okay. Nothing, nothing whatsoever. And then I started, you know, sleepless nights, you know, three o'clock in the morning, you know, trying trying to get uh I wanted to do a video with uh locked on stabilization on it, right? Well, you know, how do you do that? The game get on it and you know start you know So YouTube University, the YouTube university, and then until we started doing you know courses of you know for actual photography courses and you know, and then uh how to light and you know got one my part 107 drone license and then here we go. And then next thing I know, next thing I know I got you know two FX3s, you know, an FX6, uh, you know, a $2,000 drone, and uh, you know, I got more stuff than I can than I can handle and you know, in in a in a oh crap, I gotta pay for this stuff, you know. So, you know, that that's kind of where we went to.

Vipul Bindra: 19:46

Exactly. No, I I get it. That's and that's just how how it starts. But the main thing to me is at least it's your passion. I find that when you know you do it for a passion, it just makes your work better because it doesn't feel like work. Now coming back though, uh the you I know you Said you have a nine to five. What's your nine to five? I'm a software engineer for international paper. You know what would be crazy if you talk to my mom, because she would be like, you know, the uh obviously she'd be like, you engineering is the ultimate job. You know, to them, it's like you make videos for you know companies that like doesn't seem like a real thing. So you're you know, you're in this situation where now you're a software engineer, you've got a great job. Uh, clearly you work remote. I mean, life couldn't be any better. And you're like, hey, let me try this art thing called videography and business thing, you know, like why do you want to live life on hard mode?

Esteban Eordogh: 20:37

So it was something that I don't know if you remember, but we were when we were at the track, you know. Uh I actually told you, if you would have asked me two years ago if I would that I was gonna be trying to do this for a living, I would have told you that you are absolutely nuts, insane, not a chance. Yeah. But I think where I made the decision, it was the first time that we went to Miami to go do our first concert. Um the artist uh is a pretty big artist. Stadium was 14,000 people in the stands. Uh I mean the stadium was just pumping. Yeah. Uh we didn't go to sleep that night. And then we delivered the the video and photography because we did photography and videography for both. Um, and then we're driving back from Miami to Memphis 16 hours. Wow. Um and we did it for a thousand bucks. That's all we got paid, okay. Um but for us it was something amazing. But then driving back on the 16 hours, one guy was driving, the other guy was editing. Um we started seeing Instagram, and the footage that we just got that we just delivered, it was in Univision, in uh, you know, RT uh R U T N the You know the Colombian the Colombian uh channel news channel in El Gordo en La Flaca uh and I was like what um and the adrenaline rush I I can't I can't I cannot describe it you know um we did a couple of inter-Mami games and to go take pictures and do videos of you of Lionel Messi I mean it was just something else um we did Miami and Orlando uh we went and recorded photography and videography with uh Reuben Blades. Um that literally that concert almost brought tears to my eyes because I mean he's been singing salsa for 50 years now. Uh and it brought me so many memories, you know, with me and my family and all that. And I can't describe the I can't describe the feeling. Exactly. Um to have backstage, you know, backstage uh access because you are actually working in the concert. Amazing. Just the the the the adrenaline is just something else.

Vipul Bindra: 23:11

No, I totally get it. And I can feel the passion, you know, sitting here with you because at the end day, you know, it's not just about doing video, it's about who and what and when and with who you're doing that video. And seems like you know that that made you just fall in love with the what what we do, right? Making videos, obviously. Uh so that's that's awesome though. You were you seems like even though you've only been doing this three years, you've landed yourself, and like you said, you have a nine to five that to an engineering job. You've been able to land yourself a lot of amazing projects. What do you think that sets you apart? Why would a concert in Miami get these two guys from uh you know Memphis, Tennessee? Yeah, of all places, uh like you said, like you said, yourself, not the smallest market, but not a big market, you know. Uh so why let's talk about that. How did you guys get that gig?

Esteban Eordogh: 24:04

So when I going back again, going back again to how me and my business partner operate, he is the creative person, I'm the corporate person. Um the first guy that or the the the artist that I'm talking about, his name is Silvestre Langon. He's Colombian, that's from his town that he's from. Um he went to Atlanta to his concert, drove five hours, didn't have any contact whatsoever, and stood in the back of the in the back of the theater and literally started, you know, saw where the bus was with the the guys were unloading all their gear and everything, and he actually went and he's like, Hey man, give me a chance. I want to go take some pictures, I got my cameras over here. And for some reason, the photographer didn't show up that day. Just something out of out of crazy, okay. Crazy. Now that we've done several concerts, that thing does never happen. So then the guys were in a the guys were in a rush, and they said, like, yeah, okay, you can you with the with the back, come over here. Let's you know, come over here and start shooting pictures, and that was his first concert. So he delivered the job the next morning, they loved it, and they started calling him. And then now we're working with the producer. Um so I was not brought in until the third concert that he was doing. So he did uh Atlanta first, and then he did Houston, Dallas, and then no, actually the fourth concert. On the fourth concert, it was here in Orlando. Um he drove the 12 hours from Memphis to Orlando, but at that point we were actually working together already, and I said, Okay, I'm not gonna make it to Orlando, but this is what you can do. When you get to the hotel at night, put it in a hard drive, go into the blackmagic, you know, go into create the proxies, here's my blackmagic account, put it all in a in a project, and while you're driving the 12 hours, I'll edit for you. And so we did. And they love the edit. It was uh he was like mind blown because this is now this is the part of the team that I'm talking about. He is way much more creative than I am because but because of my engineering background, um, I'm the ty I'm the gearhead. I'm the nerd when it comes to you know to um um effects and editing, and you gotta do 32 degrees in here and that that's the part of photography I like, right? Um or videography, science stuff in here because you know, looking at curves and this and that, not per se the creative part, right? And that's why in our team, I'm the one that like, you know, oh yeah, the FX2 just came out, okay. Well, yeah, I like that because it's you know it has uh what you like the FX2?

Vipul Bindra: 27:10

That may be the most controversial thing. We'll get to we'll get to gear, we'll get to gear.

Esteban Eordogh: 27:15

Uh we'll get to gear, but yes, I do want to talk about the FX2 because I it is in my radar, yeah. And I'll tell you why in a second. Um, but I'm the person who's actually well, the the 4K is seven, seven, it's 7k oversampled and stuff, and he's like, dude, I just want it to look nice. Yeah, and and so that's how that's how our our business relationship works.

Vipul Bindra: 27:38

No, that's amazing, and that's that's what it is. Like a lot of people think, uh, and that's why, again, coming back to what I believe in, it's just a collaboration because I don't think a person exists who can be super technical, super creative, but obviously I'm sure there's exceptions out there. But what we do is a literally a mixture of science and art. And unless, like I said, you know both, you need to work with other people who are good in either or because you not only need to know, like you say, like you said, from shutter angle to frame rates to ISO, and that's just talking the exposure triangle. There's so much more lighting sound. We can get into, you know, codecs. I mean, there it's it can go very, very deep. Um, but then on the other side of it, that there's the you know, the frame lines, you know, uh framing, expo uh, you know, uh, I'm talking um, you know, leading lines, you know, so much like that's there's art to it to basically making it uh, you know, uh the the the framing and everything perfect uh to the story that you're trying to tell. Because you know, at the end they videos invoke emotion, whether that's even that if that emotion is for making people want to buy a certain product or whatever or service, at the end they still an emotion that you're invoking, and it it is an art to do that. It's there is and then there's science behind it, and you gotta be able to do both. So that's pretty good that you guys have a collaboration where one's one's more technical, one's more creative. Not saying that you can't you're not creative, what I'm saying is it's just having that that you know expertise where you're like, hey, I'm better at this, he's better at this, together. We are better than let's say somebody who's and doing both.

Esteban Eordogh: 29:16

And that's why in our team, you know, he's usually the one that does pre-production to like, hey, what does the customer want? How you think we're gonna approach this? Um, for example, we are bidding for a project of a travel agency, but a super high-end luxury travel agency. And we had a Sue meeting with a customer the other day, and well, potential customer. Um and he was the one who was actually like, Well, we got this idea, that idea, yada yada yada. But I need that little push to start getting those creative juices flowing before mine kick in. You see? Um, I'm thinking more of like, well, we're gonna do you know 90 seconds to three minutes and this and that, and what's the platform that you're gonna use it on, and all that other stuff. He's the one that's like trying to uh the storytelling part of it and the creative part of it. And I think that would this would probably work for you because you invoke this emotion and that emotion and this emotion and that's so far and so forth, which I can, but that's just not my strong point, right?

Vipul Bindra: 30:26

So no, absolutely. This is great. Uh also, so coming back to uh our gig together, so like I said, I wanted to rent a pocket three and I put in the group. So you reached out and uh you basically offered to come, right? So what basically was going in your head and why'd you wanted to come and help out on the shoot?

Esteban Eordogh: 30:47

Right now, since we are in a new market, I'm more into meeting people. Um I just want to make be part of the get in the game, and you know, um, and I love helping people out. Yeah, uh um, as a matter of fact, when we were setting up for the for the podcast, like I was like, hey man, you're gonna do this and yeah, let me help you with that. Yeah, like I get excited about this stuff, you know. So then, you know, you said something about a car, and I was like, Oh, yeah, buddy, let's do this. Yeah, so um I just said, let's go, yeah.

Vipul Bindra: 31:25

Which we're lucky. So to I not go too much into my client, but we are lucky to have a car manufacturer in Orlando because you know, we're not in Detroit. We're it's not like there's Ford and GM out here. So most people who are let's say in central Florida and they want to do car work, they have to travel, right? And we are lucky that we have a uh a car company that's building cool cars uh from scratch and that that I've been working with them for a few years. Stop super cool cars keep going, yeah, collector cars, they don't make cars for everyday people. But what's crazy to me is uh they have an in-house videographer just to just to talk about a lot of people go, oh, they have in-house, so I can't find work. I'm saying some some of my friends are like, well, they have in-house people, they have an in-house team. I'm like, no, you still can partner with people. So even though they have in-house videographers, in-house editors, or whatever. The thing is, I am not a replacement for their in-house videographer or editor, right? That I would be too expensive for that, right? Even though I think I'm very cheap for what I offer compared to an in-house, I'm I'm an expensive option. But guess what? A company like that, they need bigger projects, they need car launches, they need to go to, I don't know, news media or wherever, where they're where they don't want it to look like their everyday videographer, uh, or the project that we're part of, where their in-house videography wouldn't have the the uh the equipment or the skill or the expertise, because you know that's that that takes a lot. Like it took us a village to make it. Uh they wouldn't have it. So that's where we can be their partner and we can come in and help them. So it's a win-win. Because even though, like I said, they're a decent-sized car company, they're not not a Ford. They can't afford the biggest and the baddest, but that doesn't mean their quality needs to suffer, especially when they're making cars that are like really, really high-end, high-quality cars. These are like, yeah, uh, you know, basically collectors buy these cars, right? Or people who are really passionate about it. So, anyway, so and and that's what's unique about it. So, just so you know, I don't normally bring just somebody I've never met to a shoot. But what's amazing is the timing couldn't have been perfect because I am not, even though I've seen the pocket three, I'm used to shooting with uh, you know, fx sixes, fx3s on the low end, and uh higher end would be like Alexa's or whatever. These are the cameras that I have my hands on, right? Like a mini, mini LF. So I am not familiar with the Pocket 3 platform, though it seems fairly straightforward. I didn't want to risk it. So my original plan was to rent it and have Mario or somebody else on set like operate it. But then, you know, as soon as you were like, hey, I would love to come, and I was like, you know what? I checked out your profile. I was like, this guy's awesome. A I would love to meet met meet you anyway in general. I was like, let's skip the meeting part. Usually, you know, that's how it happens. You meet people for coffee or whatever, you connect, you decide on a project, you collaborate. I was like, you know what? We're skipping all that part. You sounded great on the phone. You like you said, I love the passion that you had. And I was like, how many opportunities like this are gonna exist? Because like I said, I've been doing this 15 years, I've done enough car rigs, but it's not like every day I get a call from a car company saying, let's go on the track, let's test an unreleased mule car. So I'm like, I'm passionate about too, right? So it's not just about the money on this shoe, it's about we're doing something that we don't get to do every day. So essentially, uh at least on my end, I was like, let's skip the meeting part. You sound awesome, you know how to make the pocket three work. This couldn't be perfect, where we can go and capture, you know, really good footage and get to network together. And you came in, and not only you came in, you brought your business partner, Alex, and it could have gone better. So we were a team of what five, I think, or five, five, right? Yeah, so it was when you said FPV drone, I was like, Oh yes, buddy, let's do this. Yeah, which I can't wait to talk to Calvin on this, who's our FPV pilot on a later episode. But that's the main thing, is because again, I'm always I love FPV, like I'm a drone violin myself, but you know, I do normal drone, your Mavics or Inspired or whatever. I don't do FPV, and I I would love to, but I don't have the time uh to you know spend the hours in the simulator. In the simulator, cool. And uh I worked with Andrew, who introduced me to Calvin. So the point is I'm always looking to do it, but it doesn't fit, you know, in all projects, maybe like a factory tour or whatever, but it doesn't really fit in typical corporate and commercial work. So anytime I have that idea, and this client obviously wants that, they want their car, they're making cool cars. They the video needs to look cool, yes, simple as that. So so this was a perfect yeah opportunity to put a pocket three in use, FPV in use, and also do it at a timeline that was short. Like we were there half day. You spent like I know we went over because they had some issues, and obviously, it's a test car, so hour and a half each track. I would say about three hours total, maybe out of lunch in there. So so it was a very short short shoot day for the amount of content we got. But yeah, I'm I'm so glad you came. The shoot couldn't have gone amazing. But what's your perspective on it? Because like I said, it's a rare type of shoot in corporate world.

Esteban Eordogh: 36:22

I will say this concerts for me are an adrenaline rush, and they're a different type of fun. Driving in the track and and getting to film the car while we were moving, and that was so much fun, so much fun. That is by far one of the most fun projects that we've done just because it was something so different, you know?

Vipul Bindra: 36:50

Exactly. And and and and what's cool about it is uh that track, the second track that I've into is a private track. You cannot even go in it unless you're a member. So for us to be literally taking your Bronco on it, it's so fun. I was like, uh, you know, how many Broncos have ever been on that track? Probably I I would guess none, but you never know, I'm sure. Because you know, it's as you saw, there was a bunch of Miadas and stuff. Like people are bringing those type of cars, performance cars. I don't think typically a Bronco person will join that. Not that Bronco, I love Broncos. I'm saying it's not the track type of car. So I'm like, how many you may have the only Bronco that's ever been on that track? And I had so much fun uh because we were chasing, you know, obviously them or leading them and trying to just get some shots, and it was just such a fun experience with you, me and Alex trying to, you know, track it with the pocket three.

Esteban Eordogh: 37:40

Uh, yeah, I've done like having one rig in the front and one rig at the back, and then telling the you know, telling the the the the driver like okay, now you can pass us, and then you know now you're up. It was so cool, so cool.

Vipul Bindra: 37:52

So fun. Plus, we're having FPV happen, you know. So I think the overall, and Calvin was nice, he got us not only that, but BTS. Mario, you were on that shoot. What do you think?

Mario Rangel: 38:02

I had an an amazing, um, amazing day. I was mostly inside a car. Yeah. And it was crazy.

Vipul Bindra: 38:10

Yeah, you were you you were the mule in the mule car. We threw in Mario, and he was not even at his best that day because you know he had a a a leg that was uh Yeah, I was playing uh I played soccer the day before and I twisted my ankle. So I was like, So you were bobbling, yeah. Uh and uh we put you in a in a in a car that's unfinished. So was it too rough?

Mario Rangel: 38:33

I mean the well the the the guy that was driving and then the well also the the CEO um he was also Tom he was also driving. They tried when I was inside, they tried to do it more softly. Uh huh. But when when Tom, the CEO was um drifting, yeah, I got I almost threw up. Uh I got this.

Vipul Bindra: 38:58

You can tell these these people are passionate about it. What I love about these clients is not only a like I said, they make a really cool product, they make it for passionate people, but they actually love it. Like, like he wasn't doing there because like even as soon as we were done rapping, if you remember, we were like, Okay, we're out, and he's like, Okay, I'm gonna just take it. And he went for it. Like he was that was not for cameras. So these people love it, uh, they're passionate about it. And to have clients like that is just incredible to me because you know, you get to, like you said, access places, um, you uh, and you know, you get to do shoots that are so much fun, and and that's what I love about video production because you know that it's so funny. We went from uh a corporate shoot before then, right, Mario? We were we were literally filming another CEO, and not that that was a bad shoot, it's just you know, we're filming in a high end house, we're you know, we're they were reading a script, you know, off it's it's a completely different feeling than going on a track where the CEO's like, I'm doing donuts and you know, skid. Yep. So it anyway, I I I love what I do. And I'm like, I wouldn't trade it for a thing because we get to do so much cool things. And I'm so glad you guys could be there and be part of that shoot because it was quite quite an incredible shoot, I think. Yeah.

Esteban Eordogh: 40:11

I was I had a smile from ear to ear the entire time. And so and and here's the thing that I actually noticed uh the customer that you were working with is so good to work with as far as like organization, they had their timing correctly. You know, where I know that whenever you ask them for all the branding stuff, like your RGB code for colors and and fonts and all that, they're like, Yeah, we got that. And I'm like, God, I wish every customer was like this.

Vipul Bindra: 40:44

Yeah, and see, this is what I'm talking about. You have to find your your your your clients because uh at the end of the, you know, it's a collaboration. Again, even with the client, it's it's just like working with another videographer. You are at the end of the all trying to achieve the same goal, right? If they're bringing me, right, I am the expert to get them that content that will help their brand. We're all working towards the same thing. Because it's not like they want something different, right? They want to promote their vehicles, which are awesome. They want to share this with even people who are not gonna buy the vehicle because we get it. You know, it's it's a certain audience who this vehicle is for. That doesn't mean I am not passionate about it. Can I afford one of their cars? Probably not. But do I love and and feel passionate about what they do, their work, and that the time of effort they put? Absolutely. Do I want to watch these videos? Absolutely. So am I not gonna why am I not gonna make the content that I want to watch? I hope that makes sense. Or their their fan base, their customers, their clients want to watch. So we have to be aligned. A lot of I feel the filmmakers that complain about clients, and I'm not saying the the clients from hell don't exist. Yes, they do, but I'm saying usually if you you have to align with the client, right? And uh, because you're all on the same goal. The usually I'm saying the people who do are they they straight go to the videographer mode. They listen, hey, what do you need? We need a promo video. Okay, straight. So we're gonna need this camera, this lighting, this, that, and that that's it. They're just running with the first bit of information you get. I usually am like do the opposite. Like they call me and they're like, hey, we want to make these series of videos for this car. And I'm like, okay, sounds awesome, right? I'm like, okay, so where are the videos gonna be posted? Right? What's what why are they gonna be posted? Who's gonna watch them? Right? You have to ask these questions. I could straight go, and I know I get it. Like some if you're not doing that well, let's say financially or whatever, you immediately want to just jump into it. But that's the wrong approach. Not only are they gonna see through you, you're gonna most likely not get the client. And if you, let's say for some reason you do, they're not gonna be happy because you didn't bother to get the rest of the information. I find the clients are happier because they're like, Oh, yeah, who's gonna watch it? Either they know, like I said, this client, or even if they don't, that makes them then sit down and question, yeah, who are we gonna show it to? Why are we gonna show it? What's our purpose? And that actually helps you or any other videographer.

Esteban Eordogh: 43:04

Who's your target audience?

Vipul Bindra: 43:05

Yeah, yeah, you you make better product, and then everyone wins, you know, because and then we're we're doing this because we love it.

Esteban Eordogh: 43:11

So, and something I wanted to touch something on that you just said about having their in-house videographer and how can we complement this stuff. And I'll I'll give you my personal experience on that. When I started this two years ago, I was working with custom with uh uh restaurants doing their monthly uh content for social media, um started to working with a a soccer school doing again content for social media and whatnot. And then I realized real quick that's that is not who I am. I am not the person who's gonna create a pack give you a package of 15 reels or this and that. That's just not who I am, right? Um, but then other customers had their their in-house media person who is not a videographer, is more like, hey, I get the phone and and record something for for the Instagram stories and whatnot. But then they started calling me when they needed some high-end production, as far as like, I remember this guy has a company of 14 taco trucks, and then he has a bakery shop, and then not only that, he has a stand in the FedEx Forum, which is where the Memphis Gri the NBA, the Memphis Grizzlies play, um, I mean, he has a high-end Mexican restaurant as well, right? So whenever it was Um just social media, quick social media content, it was Taco Tuesday or whatever, their media person did it. But when they wanted to do the promos for what was coming up in the month, and uh those were gonna boost them in in Instagram or Facebook or whatnot or whatever, that's when I came in. So it was there's so much true of what you're saying that you don't have to quote unquote fight the in-house videographer, yeah, but you're just a different market. You're different, it's it's a different type of thing because I don't want to sound rude or anything, but I'm not moving my seven thousand dollar camera to go shoot a 30-second Instagram reel in a food truck. That it's just not the right thing.

Vipul Bindra: 45:34

And it's not the right tool, right?

Esteban Eordogh: 45:35

That's the end of the thing. Correct.

Vipul Bindra: 45:36

What uh I I think the the the other thing, and and this is this is more of I think uh when you're starting out move, you think somehow camera value relates straight to uh what you can charge, right? This is this is an amateur thing, and I don't blame anyone for thinking that. So if somebody's listening and they think that, that's okay because you're just not informed yet. Because the thing is, I have clients who will pay a lot of money, I'm talking 10 grand and up, to do an iPhone shoot, right? It's not about the camera. The cameras don't matter, and most clients that uh have budgets, they want to shoot on Alexa minis or mini LFs or uh red, you know, whatever Raptors, whatever, high-end cameras. I'm saying they generally have the budget to rent it, they know what this costs, right? Either they're not asking for a camera, right? If they they either just say, I want this done, and you get to pick the camera, or if they want a specific camera, they literally know what it costs, and that's part of the budget. You just rent it out. I don't know why people get so fixated on cameras.

Esteban Eordogh: 46:40

That's like the least of our uh if the customer actually knows what the camera is, be careful because they they're they know what they're talking about. So yeah, um a lot of times when I show up on set with all the gear that we got that you that same gear that you have here, yeah, uh people would just look at the FX6 the FX6 and go like, whoa, that's a that's a fancy camera. Yeah, and that's all they know.

Vipul Bindra: 47:10

Or you can go 20 years and buy one of those big tape cameras and they'll think the same thing because they don't know any better, right? I think uh the the the thing that uh as a business side, at least we need to learn as simple as or you are paid for your skills, right? We are paid because we're experts and we're there to solve a problem, whatever that problem is. That is, hey, we want we're throwing this amazing event, we need to show other people how awesome this event was, or it could be, hey, we're trying to recruit new clients or customers, or we're trying to recruit new employees, or it could be we're trying to train, you know, our students or our employees or whatever, right? Whatever the agenda is, and we're there to solve that problem. I think we're not there to uh showcase a certain camera, and I think that's just a fixation, like you said, uh people get like I have this camera, I'll go buy it and I'll somehow have work, right? My entire thing is like cameras don't matter unless it matters, and when it does matter, you can just charge them to rent that camera. So, so never hold back from applying to any job. Because I've heard from some people who are like, hey, I want to apply the job, but they wanted to have uh, you know, uh this certain camera, and I didn't know how you know I didn't have that camera. I'm like, but then why wouldn't you rent it? Like, find out who has it in your market or online or wherever you can rent it the cheapest, and that just add that to your budget as the equipment fee. You you and and most of these high-end cameras have simulators that you can go on their website and you can play with the menus, you can basically learn everything about it without ever having to touch the camera. Obviously, I'm not saying lie if you don't know how to operate a certain camera, then don't take the gig. But it doesn't take much to learn these cameras, they're they're all the same, you know. Most of the time, you just have to understand their little nuance of where goes what, which is easy to learn. At the end of the day, operating camera is one of the easiest things as long as you understand the basics and the fundamentals of operating a camera. There's no difference between an iPhone in manual mode with the Black Magic app or any other you know, phone app where you know you're selecting ISO frame rate 2, you know, I don't know, a Venice 2 or whatever. Right.

Esteban Eordogh: 49:19

I mean, at the end of the day, ISO is still ISO, yeah, yeah, shutter speech, shutter angle, shutter angle, you know, whatever it is.

Vipul Bindra: 49:26

It's it's it's at the end of the day, the triangle, the exposure triangle is still the exposure triangle. And I'm not saying equipment doesn't matter because equipment does matter. The shoot that we just were talking about, pocket threes were the right camera for that. Don't you agree with me? Can you imagine how I tried in the time that we had? Because you were there, you know the time we had. Is there any way I could have mounted an FX3 or FX6 to it?

Esteban Eordogh: 49:48

See, I don't even think that for the there was there was a specific uh shot that the customer was asking for, which was you know, for the shocks, you know, for the shot, the suspension. I don't think you could have done that with any of these, you know, yeah, exactly, right?

Vipul Bindra: 50:01

So there's a there's a tool and a place for the job. A lot of people also think that has to be expensive, right? Yes, I'm a gearhead, I own a ton of gear, probably more than anyone I know, but that does not mean the gear is there for show, right? Anything I own or buy is there for because it's needed in the business. And for that job, and usually, by the way, I know you haven't worked with me, but normally I bring everything. You have to bring anything. That's was one of the rare instances for me where I didn't own what I needed to use. And the thing is, the pocket threes were the perfect camera for the job, and you were the perfect operator to be at the job because you know the camera, you know the ins and outs, you have the app, you know the limitations, you know how to do the tracking or whatever. The cost, and again, pocket three isn't cheap, it's like 800 bucks, but compared to let's say FX6s that we have all over here, it's cheap, right? What I'm saying is it's relative, but for that shot job, that was the requirement, right? So it doesn't matter if somebody's like, hey, I've got my Alexa package here, they wouldn't have been hired because that's not the right tool.

Esteban Eordogh: 51:09

It's not a right tool for the job. Yeah, exactly, right?

Vipul Bindra: 51:11

So that's also I think the thing is, and by the way, I'm surprised. So just so you know, I love my cameras. I'm I'm obviously a little bit uh snobbish when it comes to look, but I was really impressed with the size of the camera, how easy it is to use it, how great the footage looked. Uh, I think the footage came out incredible from those cameras, and that makes me not want to buy one. I have never thought about ever buying a pocket three, but after that shoot, I'm like, hmm. I see a lot of places where I could deploy it. Now, is it gonna replace any of the gear I have? Not at all. No, not at all. But I can I supplement the Pocket 3 in certain situations? Absolutely, and I'm so glad we did that shoot because now that I've had real footage, I was like, wow, like it looks really good.

Esteban Eordogh: 51:58

Yeah, it looks really good. It looks really good now. Um, and it's like silky butter of like stabilized, amazing.

Vipul Bindra: 52:05

It looks really good, and I think the light helped too. So it's a lot of these latest gen sensors, you know, they're all really good. Um, and that has an one-inch sensor, but like they all want light. So because we were filming outdoors, there's plenty of light. So I think they all look good, but I was just pleasantly surprised how good an one-inch sensor now even looks. So so hats off to DJI. Um, they are whatever they're doing, it's it's clearly working. I don't think, again, tomorrow it replaces an FX6, but I can't wait to see what happens in 10 years, what happens in 20 years.

Esteban Eordogh: 52:42

The rumors are that they're coming up with the mirrorless camera. So, well, didn't they just come they they just released the the DJI 40, the the one with the the gooseneck and yeah, yeah, I have one.

Vipul Bindra: 52:54

So I have an 8K. So I'm excited to play with it. So I can't wait to show you. So yeah, it's incredible camera. Now, I it's I mean, to be real, it's been out for three years, but the 8K came out last year. So for some reason, yeah, they had the 6K. I wanted to get it, but then it had some Mare issues. So essentially, you know, if you wear like a pattern shirt, some some cameras have it. Uh it was some issues, and it doesn't have an old PF, whatever. Point is, I saw it. I even had Anthony hired on a gig just just because he had a roan. It's see again, gear sometimes will get you a job. I was like, hey, this is an event shoot, we can use it. You have a 4D plus I want to work with you, let's just do it. And like I said, the footage was great, but this the the that that if that more uh uh the more-ish or more, whatever, however people say it, it just is just too much, you know. So so if anywhere there's like a thin pattern, um, you know, uh shirts, screens, it just it just wasn't good. Point is uh yeah, the last year they released an 8k that has an old PF on it, so it doesn't have that issue. Plus, eight's a better sensor in general, but they doubled the price, so you pay literally double for just a sensor upgrade. So it's not like the parts are new, anything else is different, it's the exact same camera. So for a while I was debating buying it, but finally pulled the pulled the trigger. But uh yeah, it's it's an incredible camera, but it's not for every job. But you're right, they're already it's being used in uh I think adolescence, I think is the show called. Have you seen that? It was it's going viral. I've never okay. So so I haven't seen the actual show, I've seen the making of it, and and it's it went viral because it was done like one shot and it's using uh the the Ronan 8K. They also I know use the 6K version in Civil War, so you know people are using unconventional uh cameras in in Hollywood, and not that Hollywood matters for what I do, at least, you know, I'm not trying to be Hollywood. I know a lot of people think of commercial and uh this film taking as a step to Hollywood, at least for me, I love what I do. I wouldn't I wouldn't trade it. I'm not trying to get to Hollywood, I love what I do. Uh and for for us, these tools are incredibly useful, but to just see the tools that we use on a daily basis now being adopted by you know people where equipment's not even a factor. Like I doubt any Hollywood movie, because they're renting everything, budget of equipment is even that much a factor. I'm pretty sure a technocrane costs more than any camera they're renting. So I'm saying they're not factoring in the rental cost of a Ronin or a you know uh you know FX3 or FX6 in there. So for them to be deploying these cameras in Hollywood productions is pretty cool to see how far camera technology has come, uh, where these cameras are so good that they can be used on an IMAX movie or whatever, right? Because Creator was released on IMAX too, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was all shot, yeah, it was shot on all FX3s. Yeah, exactly. And and and so camera doesn't matter. Again, coming back to yes, gear matters, but the right gear for the right job matters. So if your job is capturing social reels and a pocket three or a fx3 or a Panasonic something, or whatever camera you need is the right for the job, then that's the better equipment, not just something because that's the known brand or whatever, right? That to me is the more important factor. What you're doing, what's the right tool for the job, you have to have it. Not having the right tool for the job is a factor, but just having the most expensive camera and it not being the right tool is not better, you know. Right. Yeah, to get any other job. So what uh so coming back to equipment, FX2. So Sony announced FX2 camera launching, I think, mid-August, something like that. Right. Um obviously, I don't think anyone typically thought of it. It's basically an A7 IV FX3 body with a fan and an EVF stuck onto it.

Esteban Eordogh: 56:54

Okay, so here's the thing I have an A7 IV. Yeah, love the camera. I love the footage that comes out of it. That image when it's not in 60p, uh, the 24 and the 30p, it's butter. Yeah, because it's 7k over 700. Right, and I love the sharpness of it and everything. Now, I gave it to my wife. Um the two the two bodies that I use on a daily basis are a Sony C V E one that I use for like when I use when when we were out there for BTS, yeah, small things. When I do like a shoot at a restaurant, something that is not, you know, something quick, easy, and easy and done. I take out the Z V E one and then I have the FX3. I the FX6 comes out on rare occasions. When I do interviews, things like that, that's when that's when that comes out. Um but I don't have a I don't have a photography camera anymore. And I do need photography sometimes for concerts, for example. Um I would I would that that is the tool that I would use if we were if we were filming a concert. I don't need the 12,800 most of the time because usually the the this the artist is pretty well lit. Yeah. Right. As a matter of fact, a lot of things. As a matter of fact, a lot of times I'm working in, you know, F14 and you know F14, 15 because like they are like blown up. Um and I like the ability of having a video first because I'm a videographer first. I do photography for for fun. Uh I do like uh doing uh uh food uh photography that I do like. And I wanna have a camera that is video first but also has the capability of shooting stills, and that's what I like about it.

Vipul Bindra: 58:52

So I'll tell you a secret. I'm gonna buy one. Here's here's I'll tell you, okay. This is like I said, I I completely get it. Yes, on the Sony's part, what people need here's the thing the FX3 and FX6s are three, four, five years old now. They're they're old cameras, right? But their cameras have become industry standard. Literally, I'm not even a Sony I don't like Sony cameras, partially even now, even though they make me so much money, as a user, you know, I don't want to operate their cameras because I don't know. I I just don't like them. Point is I own all the Sony cameras because that's what the demand is. If uh if I'm doing my own projects, nobody cares. I can bring Sony cameras because clients don't care, right? As long as they get good quality. But when they do care, right, when my friends call on me to DP their project or whatever, they need gear or or some random production agency comes here and they just need help or whatever, it's always Sony. I have never heard of I think once in my entire time they ever asked for a Canon camera and they've never asked for black magic, they've never asked for Panasonic. It's always either we don't Care or we want Sony, right? So these cameras make me a ton of money, which is why I own them, and hence why I don't think why people were disappointed because Sony has no reason to replace them. They're still the industry standard, they're still working. Yes, there's things that could improve them. I would like to get new versions with some things I don't like. Yeah, give me open gate, please. Exactly. But but who knows? When is Sony going to ever ever add open gate? Who knows? But they but the end of it is uh yes, it's a very useful feature, especially if you're doing both you know horizontal and vertical video together. But at the end day, these cameras are industry standard, they're working, there's demand, there's no reason for them to replace. So, what they did on Sony's part, I think it is a lazy move, which is why people are unhappy. They literally took a camera and they've a very old camera that four or five years, right? Again, it's for a7 IV, and they replaced the biggest flaw in it, in my opinion, which was overheating. Overheating, which made a7 IV kind of useless in real-world settings where you had to record for hours, uh, not for vlogging people, but anyway, and hence FX2, which is why they're not calling it FX3, Mark II, FX4, whatever.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:01:09

So, I will give you I will give you a little bit of this, okay? The I do have the ZVE1, which has all the uh the enhanced autofocus and all that, and I can tell you with experience, owning a ZVE1 and owning an FX3, the autofocus is just that much better. Yeah, like it is insane good. When we were in the track, um I set up the autofocus for for cars and and train it has it has a mode that you can set up for cars, and I did not miss a single shot. And it was all in like in tack sharp focus, um, which the FX3 doesn't have. Yeah, exactly.

Vipul Bindra: 1:01:48

So it only has people and I think uh uh animals.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:01:52

Correct. Uh and uh I can tell you another thing is sometimes when on the FX3, when people turn around, right? You somewhat sometimes you lose the the autofocus and starts hunting. Uh that doesn't happen with the ZV1. Um and they're the same sensor, yeah. But and that's why I am getting the FX.

Vipul Bindra: 1:02:13

And I'll tell you why I'm getting it. So for me, here's the main reason. Yes, I think Sony's lazy, but here's why I'm still gonna buy one. Simply is because the lineup, right? Here's what I use. Again, I make my decision based on what pays the bills, not what I like. Right. And the truth is, here's what pays the bill. High-end projects, I like to use mini LF, maybe sometimes a 35 or a mini, depending on. But those are client-requested cameras. I'm not picking them, they're paying for the rental, I don't need to own them. And the stuff that I own for middle level, it's gonna be a Burano, and then for mid to small level, it's gonna be two FX6s, two FX3s, and an FX2. Because just like you, clients expect us to do on corporate filmmaking headshots and basic photos. Now, yes, do I full-time do photography? No, if we need anything more, um and they expect us to do both. I was gonna tell people if if people somebody comes to you for an event and corporate photography and they ask you to do both photo and video, the answer is yes. If you're a photographer and you don't want to do video, just bring in your videographer friend and partner it together. Or the the reverse, the reason is clients just don't want a hassle of hiring two different vendors, they prefer to have one, and so usually what I'll do is if they need extensive photography, I've got friends lined up. Let's put money in their pocket, come do photography for me. But most of the time, what all they're looking for in our projects is headshots or some basic shots, and I I can do those, right? Not that I'm a photographer, but headshots are not hard. We are our scenes are already well lit. And but the thing is currently I've been doing those with FX3, and they're 12 megapixels just not enough. So this is where I think FX2 will come for me. Correct. Where it's like, hey, it can be a B, C, D, E, F, whatever camera for me on a shoot, where it can play with the others, all the Sony cameras that I own. As you see, also Ronin 8K is gonna be part of that lineup that I have uh for this year and going forward until I'm sure something new comes out. But that's where the I will buy loan FX2 because it'll fit in as just another B-roll camera, it'll play well. Like you said, it's sure it's an older sensor, still looks good. But then as soon as we need photo, flip it a photo, and we can quickly start getting some headshots over that way.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:04:26

So for me personally, whenever we're doing events, live live events, concerts, uh, I'm mostly doing videos, but my god, sometimes you get that opportunity that it's just picture perfect for a still. Yeah um and we do deliver stills for the customers too, and just concert photography is just so awesome, yeah. Um, so I do need a camera that I can quickly go from one moat to the other because things happen super fast in a concert.

Vipul Bindra: 1:05:00

Exactly. Um makes sense, you know. I completely get why you'd want it. Because to be honest, I thought the R5C was gonna be that for me. So a few years ago, I was in the Canon ecosystem and I thought the R5C was the holy camera. I had like C C200, C70s, and I thought, oh wow, this can perfectly come in as that hybrid because it had literal menu change, right? You get cinema menu, full log, uh C log 2, I think, or whatever, C Log 3, whatever it had log, uh proper menu from like the C70, but then you go to photo mode and you get just like any other Canon photo camera, but it did not work. I've never gotten rid of cameras though fast. I I was just wasn't a fan of the R5C. I'm sure some people like it, but I do think this one may be a home run because of the way I've seen the layout and then them more leaning towards the FX3 style, because like you said, we do video first and then photo second, but we do sometimes need to do photo, and I think that's where the camera is perfect, and now it's the reverse because people are like, then what about the reverse? And that camera already exists, A7 IV. If you do photo first and video second, just buy a used one, they're so cheap now. I think it I think it makes sense, even though it's a lazy attempt. I'll give it to the haters. But I think for people like you and me, I think it's not a bad camera, and it's priced really low too. $2,800. Uh, I can probably call my dealers, probably pick it up for $26. I'm thinking, something like that. And I think that's gonna be $27, right? Mario, what's the price on an FX2? Can you check BNH? $2,700.

Mario Rangel: 1:06:37

$27.

Vipul Bindra: 1:06:38

$2,700. So yeah, so look at that. So we could probably get it for uh for, you know, uh say like I basically buy enough gear that I have reps at some of these retailers, so I could call it probably get a hundred bucks off. It's not gonna be a lot for a brand new camera, but so I'm saying for that, I think it's worth it just to add it in the lineup for, like you said, those social media reel videos for the for the videos where uh we need to do photo, but also capture B roll, and just in addition to the team, at least for my production company, it fits. Is he gonna be my A cam? No, and as you saw in the lineup, that was what a Burano, two FX3s, two FX6s, uh what, an FX uh a Ronan uh 8K, and then comes the the uh the um uh you know fx two, so it's not like what I've got six other cameras to pick from before I pick that, so it's not like my only camera, but for somebody who is just doing that type of shoot, that's way better than any of these other tools. So yeah.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:07:37

Because I'll tell you this. Um we tried doing concerts with the FX6, and even though that it's it's you know designed for handheld shooting or whatever, I didn't like it. Yeah, it was too big, too bulky. When you're trying to move in between crowds and everything, I need it to be light and quick, and and that's why I said that for me personally, that would be an amazing tool. Yeah, besides I would love to use it on an interviewer too on the tight shot. When you put a 90 mil, a 90 mil uh or an 85mm prime on it. I bet you that that image is gonna look sensitive. I can't wait to compare. That'd be a good comparison.

Vipul Bindra: 1:08:19

Uh, once I get my hands on one, which is not that far away, I would love to do a test. Well, I'm gonna like say I'm gonna acquire one. But to be honest, we can do that test now because it's not like A7 IV doesn't exist, right? You don't have to do much. You just put your FX6 next to your A74, and you'll kind of know what the image will look like. Because from my understanding, is they did tune the color a little bit. Yes, it's not totally different, it's just the look change to match with the with the other cameras. So it it may not be 100%, I'm saying to your A74, but it'll be very close to that, right?

Esteban Eordogh: 1:08:50

Not only that, um, they up the the second or the highest bay, the high base ISO to from 3200 to 4,000. So hey, I'll take it. Yeah, you know, it's not a massive change, but you know, it's not 12,800, but I'll take it.

Vipul Bindra: 1:09:06

Yeah, they probably can do 12,800 on that just because you know how many megapixels. Yeah, but but I like I said, I don't have such a high megapixel camera, didn't think I would need one, but if it's right, I am gonna acquire one. Hopefully, it's not a bad purchase. But so far I've been very happy. All my Sony cameras have paid a long, long time ago. Best decision ever. Like I said, it doesn't my personal feelings side, they're good for business. And even to this day, I even had a buddy now, he was like, Hey, I want to buy a couple cameras, you know, upgrade my production, his production to FX6. And I was like, Normally I'm for don't buy equipment because it's not a good investment because you can rent it, right? Especially if you don't use it every day. But FX6 is one of those cameras. I was like, Yes, you know, you still are in favor of getting one and not and getting your money back because that again, it's one thing you're doing it as a passion thing, but it's another thing when you're doing it's business, right? It's a business decision. And I think an FX6 is still a good business decision because there's demand for it, you can still fit into uh reality show, again, come uh corporate work uh and get your money back pretty quick. I had a buddy buy one last year, and I think within one or two gigs he had his money back. So as long as you're smart about the projects, you don't just buy the camera thinking you'll get the gigs. That's a wrong mindset. But if if you already have the gigs, it'll pay for itself because it is the right tool, like you said, in certain scenarios where it's interviews, where it's that corporate stuff.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:10:33

See, this is the perfect scenario for it.

Vipul Bindra: 1:10:34

Exactly. Or you're fitting into certain productions where they're like, hey, we need a cam up on our reality show, we need an FX6 operator. It you just fit right in there, right? You bring your camera, you go in, you talk, you you follow some housewife, right? You get like your paycheck, you go, right, right. But you know, there is enough of that work out there. People love reality shows nowadays, and and all those have mostly moved to FX6s and FX3 for their crash cams. That's basically it.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:11:02

And and I will say this the reason why the FX6 for me is my least used camera is you know, the one the codec. Uh a lot of times I just want something quick, MP4, be done with it, you know, and and and not have the the X MXF you know the codec, which looks super clean and I love it, but it's heavy, it's it's it requires it requires a lot more than MP4. That's that's exactly.

Vipul Bindra: 1:11:33

And I can't wait to have uh David back on the podcast. So he's gonna he he's was talking about the same thing. So he's a retainer client, it's just not the right tool. He owns an FX6, but if your client doesn't want to deal with MX file and MXF files, he's having to transcode them. That's another step that he doesn't need to with an FX3. Plus, the client doesn't care that you have an FX6. So an FX3, FX2, A7S3, whatever, any of these cameras that can do you know, good footage, uh log, cinetone, whatever he's using with the MP4 codex is just better. Now, again, some things talking about flaws with the cameras. I don't get why this camera can't have HEVC, you know, like the the codex, I think uh uh H265 uh codex that the uh fx3 has, right? FX30 has it. Clearly, an M FX6 should be able to, but these this is the type of gatekeeping these companies do. And my Ronin too, 8K, why it can do MP4, H264, why can't I do H265 H E V C? Like that would save me so much space, right? But it's just not an option, and these companies don't want to add it.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:12:42

Why? I don't know. See, the to me, the big thing uh with the open gate stuff is that if you are marketing something for beginning filmmakers, you're you're in a world where you need vertical video. That's just a fact, man. And if you can just frame and you know, reframe you know the camera is made for use horizontally, right? Um and if you can just go ahead and do one shot and do just crop the why not?

Vipul Bindra: 1:13:16

You have the sensor, you know, like or maybe maybe Sony will come up with that or or any company. Have you thought about what if the whole sensor could rotate? Wouldn't that be fun? I mean, the op I get that open gate is an easier fix because you know, you could do both. But I'm saying the other thing would be uh, you know, the whole lens and sensor rotates on a cinema camera. But technically on a mirrorless, you could just rotate the camera too. Right. But I'm taking even a bigger bigger camera because the the thing is, yes, I I don't didn't like vertical video in the past, but right now I'm like that is more and more prevalent. A lot and more clients want it. And it may not be the whole project, because I have projects where it's like, hey, we're doing this video for the website, which is you know normal, and this video for cut here, but then here's five videos we're doing to go social media, and you're right, that's where an open gate would be a good fit because yeah, I can do we can pull out both.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:14:10

I'll give you I'll give you a scenario that that it happens to us, you know, in the concert world. So the producer or the production company they want uh stuff to send out to the TV channels, right? For their news, you know, morning news and all that stuff. Um, so that obviously has to go horizontal, but then they also want vertical content for social media, right? And I know you can you know shoot horizontal and frame and all that stuff. I'm the type of person who like if I'm gonna do vertical, I'm doing vertical because I want the whole resolution of the thing of the of the sensor to be in frame. Um and that is a a use case that I wish that we had open gate because why aren't you switching to Panasonic? They're willing to give you yeah, they're willing to give you open gate and all that stuff, but I have $10,000 worth of lenses. What am I gonna do with the lenses? You know, and then I have my favorite.

Vipul Bindra: 1:15:10

Biggest mistake, and again, I'm sure there was some technical thing that caught is the flange distance, L mount. Why did they have to pick 20 millimeters? Nikon, not a fan of them in general, but I think they did the smart move because their Z mount has a lower, I think it's 16 millimeters. I could be wrong on this, Mario, if you want to check, doesn't matter. I think and then so Sony Emount I believe is 18 millimeters, and so that what made the Z mount awesome is you can buy the Z mount, but you can put E mount glass on it. So you can now, you know, you can switch to an icon without having to switch all your glass, because you're right, glass costs more than cameras, and Panasonic by going with L mount, and I know they're member of the L Mount Alliance, it sucks for them because their cameras can be awesome, but like you said, to switch to them, you would have to freaking change your entire lines lineup because of that couple extra millimeters, you cannot mount your e-glass or convert it to go on L mount cameras.

Mario Rangel: 1:16:08

They're just right, you're right, people is 16 or there you go, and and and that's what I'm talking about.

Vipul Bindra: 1:16:14

So so so yeah, so L-mount cameras can adapt E-mount glass, which is the problem for me wanting to switch. To be real, I like Panasonic cameras. I own GH4, GH5S, great cameras made me a lot of money back in the day, and I'm I'm sure they're back, I'm happy for them because I really like those cameras. I hated leaving them to go back to Canon. And and I think they're they're popular right now because people like what they're doing. But until they do something like again, what my Ronin 4D has, because even though you know DJI is part of the L mount alliance, same thing. The the the L mount detaches and an E mount goes on it, so I can use my E mount glass on the 4D, which you cannot do that on the Panasonics because the L mount is built in. So, unless if they can do something like that, and I'm sure selling glass is part of the the business plan. Uh, but yeah, I I totally agree with you. It'd be if they made it easier to switch, you would.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:17:07

It's not it's not about the body. I would love to shoot on or at least try the S12, you know, the Lumix S12 that just came out, but it's not feasible for me because I would have to change five lenses that I have on my day-to-day case, you know, in my in my actual case, and you know, and that's not including if I have a hundred to four hundred, if I want to do, you know, telephoto or anything like that, which I don't have, but um, you know, I would have to change for me personally, you know, without including Alex and without including my wife, uh, it's 16 to 35, 24 to 70, a 51.4. I had I would have to have us, you know, at 70 to 200 70 to 200, and then I would have to change a 35 to 150. You know, I that's those are five lenses that I own. That those are my personal ones.

Vipul Bindra: 1:17:59

Yeah, you need the Trinity and then the couple extra that you like. Yeah, uh, I totally get it. No, that that to me is valid, and and the same thing, you know. My entire thing is yes, right now, trending thing is to talk about the the new Pixas 12K, the Sony, uh, the Panasonic cameras, because they are they're making the good good bodies. I totally agree. The sensor on the 12k looks amazing, and you can get it with the PL mount, the L mount, all the cool stuff, right? But same thing, I'm just like, I cannot commit to this because I don't know the demand. I have done that in the past where bought a B V Raptor, I bought a Helium or whatever, because you know, people wanted to hear the word red in the past. There was no demand for it, unless you were doing music videos, and I don't want to do music videos because there's no money in it. And plus, it's you know, even though they're fun, like it is a business at the end of the day. Why would my company choose to do that stuff that doesn't pay well? And plus, it's not uh, you know, not some music videos are fun, but a lot of them were boring too because it's like you know, you're doing the the the three, four things, you know, and they're just cutting it. It wasn't like creative element in there that I uh that I enjoy where the storytelling and everything. Point is uh yeah, I don't care if these are trending until some company calls me, one of my partner agencies calls me and says, Hey, we want the 12k. I'll be the first guy to rent it or buy it or whatever, but until somebody pays me money to use one of the cameras, it's just a YouTuber thing, right? And that's why I'm like, listen, this is I am a working professional, I make my money from making videos, I make zero dollars from this podcast, right? Or YouTube or whatever, right as of right now. The goal is to go, you know, make videos for clients. So I am I'm not paid by any company to talk good or bad about any camera. And to be honest, I am not married to one either. But the truth is, anyway, I agree with you. Our lenses, our glass, our our ecosystem is and demand is more important than a trending camera, if that makes sense.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:19:58

Well, if I were to Change sometime at any point in time, I would go blackmagic. And that's because I I'm a black magic fan. I edit in DaVinci Resolve. Uh and you know that codec, the the black magic raw, and the colors of the black magic cameras are just so nice.

Vipul Bindra: 1:20:19

Yeah, I mean to be honest, we're using that for this podcast right now. Our podcaster is being switched on a black magic equipment. I love black magic design as a company. I was the first one when they announced the ATEM G2. I'm like, buy, you know, like pre-order. We want one. I think as a company, they're amazing. Resolve is awesome. Uh, just like you know, uh DJI, you know, they're innovating as in the industry. But like I said, my thing with that is Pixel 12k looks incredible. I love the the sensor on it, it it just looks incredible. But as so as a filmmaker, I like the camera. I'm like, ooh, intriguing. I want to try it, and I probably will. But will I buy one? Probably not. Will I switch to one? Probably not. And simply because I currently do not foresee it replacing FXXs and FX3s in the market. Because of the same thing, because of the the flange just you know, the L mount. Uh, it does have P P L mount, but I still don't think it's gonna it's gonna just be replacing the industry standard, and until I hear somebody say, Hey, we want you for a project, we need you to have the Black Magic 12K, it's not gonna happen. Unfortunately, that's just the world we live in.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:21:34

So I I owned a 6K Pro and I absolutely love that camera, but it's not for everything, yeah. So um, it's hard when you're you know, it's hard. Manual manual focusing is hard, especially when you're doing fast action stuff for like soccer or sports or whatever, that's just not the right tool for the for for that. Um, but it plays so nicely with Da Vinci Resolve, and and again, just color grading that footage when you get the yeah, it's coming, you know.

Vipul Bindra: 1:22:08

Blackmagic Raw is coming to the FX6, and I think even FX3, I could be wrong in the FX3, but it's definitely coming to FX6. How do you feel about that? Uh, them opening up. I was surprised when that announcements was made. You need to have uh a blackmagic video assist, obviously, to go into it and whenever they release it. I think it's supposed to be next year, so it's a long time. Hey, that's crazy to me to announce a feature that early. Uh, but again, I don't shoot in RAW because again, demand is in there. I don't have anyone asking me to provide raw, but if they did, I would happily record. But that is kind of cool to know that we will be able to do that.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:22:43

I will say this you know, the cool thing about working with map blackmagic raw is that you can do change parameters like ISO and things like that in post-production, yeah, right? Uh, and then when you're color grading the footage, um the image doesn't break that easy, you know. I Sony Sony breaks quite quite easily, to be honest with you. Um and you can you can push that that black magic raw codec to really high and and it'll look sharp and so nice. Yeah, that's what I like about it.

Vipul Bindra: 1:23:22

It's that's the thing I like about red cameras, not to be too mean to them like earlier. I do like they have a similar, I don't know if you have you shot on red before. No, no. Okay, so they have the similar thing, it's called the traffic light system. Essentially, it's like you know, RGB parameters. Essentially, as long as you're not peeking on any of those, you'll basically have all the sensor data. And you can go back and uh, you know, onto uh post and then you can manipulate anything, change the footage, anything. But this is kind of like uh I I'm for both. I'm not like old school, like where you have to do it, but the truth being is do you really need it? Unless you're doing run and gun, where you know, you can make mistakes, like you're doing. I get it for concerts, you're moving fast, high chance sometimes you know you're gonna not be the right divide balance or ISO. But truth being told, for what we do, like yeah, I'm like, why am I if I'm doing interviews in B roll, why is it not gonna be in correct settings? Right? Why do I even ever need raw? Uh, because we are taking I am looking at the monitor. If I'm directing uh or producing, I am looking at the production monitor like we have here, and I am making sure the footage looks good. We're not rolling until it looks good. Or uh speaking of if I'm D pink for other people or even for myself, then I'm looking at my camera to make sure it's exposed right. Point is I would never need raw because the footage is always exposed how we want it exposed. RAW would not add anything else but extra bit depth and colors, which is nice, but again, it's not necessary, and again, no agency that I know of, and I do pretty good work outside of again. I'm not talking Ari, where I've had, you know, we have had to record an Ari Raw. I'm talking mid to low level gigs where you're using up to an FX6. I've never had an agency go, we need to record it raw. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like it's unnecessary, but it's good to know that at least that option will be available on a Sony camera, that you don't have to go buy a new camera, as long as you buy a video assist, I guess.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:25:25

Well, for me, again, what some of the tools that I would love to see on a Sony camera would be false color. I use that all the time. I mean, it is it is an essential, an essential way for me to expose, especially like when you said, you know, when you're when you're having when you're in full control of your exposure on your set, you're completely lighting, um, especially for interviews and everything, like uh false color to me is the way to go. Uh, and you don't have it in Sony cameras natively. And that's why initially that's why I bought a 6k, you know, Black Magic 6K Pro because it has that natively has you know false color and everything. But then owning a Black Magic camera to me was you know brought other issues that I could solve with an external monitor and an FX3, you know. Um, but I don't always want to rig the FX3, or I don't always want to rig rig out my you know my my Sony cameras. I sometimes I want to go as light as I can.

Vipul Bindra: 1:26:23

So um which talk about false color. Have you heard of L Zone?

Esteban Eordogh: 1:26:28

No.

Vipul Bindra: 1:26:28

So if you own a small HD monitor, the only thing I don't like about the L Zone system, it's only available in a limited device, so it works on my Cine 7. So I can only use it with my primary A camera because I only own one or two of those because they're very expensive. But uh point is I love the L Zone system, so it's like false color, it's really cool. You send the uh the the log data basically to the monitor, and then you can apply conversion light if that you want there. But it basically represents like uh the the image like the the false color, but in stops of light. It makes uh the dude, you gotta go watch some videos about the L zone system. It is so incredibly easy to use. I'm talking very easy to you, like you know, you you know in X stops, like not only are you overexposing, but by how many stops. So so essentially they've remapped the false color zone, I can tell you. Instead of you know, like having IRE values as what you're looking at, you're looking at stops. And and to me, uh, and I hope I'm explaining it correctly, it's like the next level of false color, and it's incredible. And I wish all cameras have it. The only thing I don't like for my image pipeline personally, I prefer to send out my conversion line directly from the camera, and that may just be a personal preference. I don't want to apply anything on the monitor level because a lot of time we're doing multi-view, so I may have different conversion LUTs. You know, FX3 is not 100% the same as FX6, so you need a slightly tweaked, I'm saying, conversion LUT to show to a client, because otherwise they're gonna be like, why is this slightly green? Why is this slightly magenta, right? So, point is if I just went into a straight monitor and applied a conversion LUT, which you have to for L zone, that's the only negative, it would the values wouldn't look perfect, I'm saying, in a multi-camera mode. Versus if um uh I send it from camera, the image looks good on all cameras, but then if I do L zone, it won't work because it needs log footage, right? If that makes any sense. So that's the only negative that I found with it. That if I'm doing multi-camera, which is most of the time, it makes it really hard to use L zone because I'm applying that conversion light, whatever I'm using to see on all the cameras, and then it's not showing me the the way I want to look at it, if that makes any sense. But I would highly recommend looking into that. It's really cool. You do need a small HD monitor for it, but man, talk about being able to expose correctly. Like, there's no debating what's how many stops, you know, below or down or whatever you're looking at. It just makes it very easy to expose.

Mario Rangel: 1:29:01

Here's a photo you want you want to look at it. Look at that, look at that.

Vipul Bindra: 1:29:06

Yeah, it does look like kind of like it's basically similar concept, but like it's it's representing values in stops. Yeah, and to me, stops of light is so easier to understand than IRE values because what if you're recording for HDR or you know, what if you're recording low? I don't know. I feel IRE values is is fine. I'm not saying false color is not is bad. I use it too because I can't use you know L Zone and everything, but I do think L Zone is better than false color any day of the week. It just needs to get out of the limitation of I think a DP made it too. Can you find out what who's the DP that invented L Zone? Uh but it's not like made by a company, it's made by a DP, so I think they have to just license it from him or whatever. But it's made by a working professional. Again, this is designed for people like us who are working in the field. It's not just made by some company in a in a you know, not no offense, I know you're a software engineer, but if you're not in the field, I feel like a lot of times, you know, these companies will make a product uh and throw it on the field, and then they they but they have never worked with a professional before, and they have to get to version two or three before. He's the guy so he invented a shout out to him. Really cool system. I really like using Elzone. Unfortunately, I only get to use it when I'm using the Cine7, which is generally mounted on the A cam, so which is good, but I can't do it on all the cameras. That's the only limitation I have currently. Uh so makes you basically forces you to buy small HD monitors. I don't know that many other monitors that supported yet. So that's the the the catch there.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:30:46

Alright. I'm going to change it. I'm gonna give give this a whole 180 degree degree turn and get veer away from talking gear for a second. So we were on a super fun shot.

Vipul Bindra: 1:31:00

Yeah.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:31:00

Okay. Uh on a fun shoot, I'm sorry. Uh what has been your most gratifying job that you have done in the video industry?

Vipul Bindra: 1:31:10

Oh wow, that's crazy. Gratifying in what way? Financially, uh you know, uh, artistically, oh wow.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:31:17

Open question.

Vipul Bindra: 1:31:18

Uh dude. Oh, you're gonna put me buying because uh I can think of one right now, but it's under NDA, so I can't talk about it. Okay. Uh I would say the first time somebody paid me six figures for a video. It sounds crazy. You know, when you when you when I started, you you know, I I I can't go too much into it, it was NDA, but what I could say is this simple, like what what I'll tell you. Your mindset goes, you know, when I started, I was like, oh, if I can make hundred thousand dollars a year, life would be and then somebody comes in one day and says, Hey, here's a budget and we need one video, two-minute video, here's the requirements. What are we looking at budget-wise? We could we're thinking about hundred, hundred fifty, you know, and I'm like, uh what? Right in your brain, right? When until the numbers scaring you, and then you just go, Well, the parameters make sense because you know, the requirements of the video, okay, we got shoot this, we need this, we need this much crew, we need this much set bill. You know, like you can clearly see where the numbers are coming for. They're not, but but what I'm saying is like, but as a person, you for a second you go, what the fuck? Like, you know, I'm looking at numbers that you were you, I don't know, I couldn't imagine once, right? I'm like, you tell me one project, one video, I'm gonna be paid that much. I I know, and I'll give you a real world example for a different one because I know I can't talk much about it, but yeah, most of these big projects, that's the only negative. They usually come through agencies, they usually come through big brands. So, and and for some reason they want NDAs. I don't know why. I get it, but like, I don't, I don't know. I'm fine, you know. I I I don't do this for credit, so I'm like, I'll sign whatever NDA. I'm pretty sure I would love to talk about the job I'm doing right now. Tomorrow's the last day, so you know, we're doing this after a shoot day. Point is I would love to talk about it, but I have a feeling I heard them talk about it. Oh, we gotta get the crew to sign NDAs. I was like, really? Why could you say that on day one? So I captured so much footage and I was like, oh, I'm not gonna be able to show any of it because it's probably all about to go under NDA. So that's I think our negative of what we do. And trust me, what I've been shooting is there's nothing there that I would even think they need an NDA for. But you know, when you're when you have so much money and people involved, people tend to, I guess, protect their their footage. So I get it. But anyway, that was like a very gratifying moment for me. Uh, like you said, it's I'm very professional, I'm very business. I was like, yeah, absolutely, let's do it. And like I said, the rate was valid, it's not like they're giving me free money, but then you just walk out and you go, uh, what did we just do that? Did we just get so much money to make a video? Yes, we did, and then you just move on with your life, right? Uh, but yes, that was very gratifying. But talk about the other one. It is this project. I'm really excited. So, this client, I've been working with them for three years. I'm talking about the car shoot that we just did, and you know, I've been pitching them ideas. You know, every time I meet them, I'm like, let's do this, let's do this. And you know, there's they're small company, yes, they make very expensive cars, but they sell limited number of cars, they're not selling millions of cars. Right. So, as a company, they don't have that much marketing spend. They have money, but that's it's limited money, so they gotta be careful where they spend it. Um, and it's not like they're not making videos where they're in-house videographer and edit. So I come in for special projects, but I want to do something bigger than what we've been able to do in the past. So I really was like, how can we come and get involved? So for them to finally go, hey Whipple, we're about to launch this car. Let's go make 12 uh series of 12 videos before we launch this car. And I'm like, awesome, sign me up. And that's why normally I'm all about, you know, like you have certain rates, certain budget, certain things, you gotta do it. And then this client, I was like, and I'm again straight, I'm a straight shooter. I was like, okay, so 12 videos is a lot of work, right? A lot of shoot days, really last minute shoot. So point is what's the budget? And then the budget is X number, right? And I'm like, uh, that would sound crazy again if you didn't know the parameters of the shoe, right? If I'm like, here's 100 grand, right? Sounds like a lot of money, but now I'm like, yeah, I own like you have to work here for two and a half months, and you go, okay, that's a lot. Now you gotta bring 20 other people with you. Uh okay, right? The money starts to dwindle, dwindle, and you quickly realize, oh, the profit is very low. So again, they it's really high budget for them, but once you break it down over the course of work, post pre-production, production, it wasn't the highest budget. But I was really excited to take it because I was like, hey, it's a I don't have to fly. It's a company that I'm already in relationship with, and we're gonna make some sick videos that those type of clients are not just there every day. So I'm really passionate about it. We've obviously done a few shoot days. You were part of one of them, and uh obviously we're gonna do a few more, and I would love for you to bring you back when we have a finished car and we do a track day. I think that'd be an awesome day to bring you back. Because you know, what the one we did was a mule car, right? That car is just for testing, it's not painted. And it still looked amazing. It still looked amazing. So can't wait for the the car when it's actually finished, when it's painted, when they've dialed in everything, right? Uh, that I think is gonna be an incredible shoot to do. But anyway, I it the project was gratifying because what we do is transformative, as in like when I sell send my video to a client, they go sell their products and services, they make a lot of money and they thank you. You know, it feels good, right? But that's it, right? You don't get to do something at the core of it. I'm just shooting interviews in B-roll, right? Or maybe some scripted content where they're talking to camera or whatever. What I'm saying is like, as a filmmaker's goes, I only do a few projects a year where like lives are at stake, or you know, we're doing something cool. At the end of the day, we're doing corporate video. I get it. This isn't like the most thrill-seeking videos, and uh, if car stuff, like I'm doing it for dealerships, maybe right, a commercial. Sure, we'll do a car rig, but that's not nothing crazy. It's like one shot of a car driving, right? On a bridge or something. You you know what I'm talking about. It's not like ex so here. We're like, oh, we're gonna go on track day. Uh, you know, they're showing me. I don't know. Uh, how do you say that fancy car company? Our comparison was some really, really fancy connects, I think. Uh car enthusiasts are gonna kill me for saying it wrong. Uh the car company? Yeah, it's K-O-N-N-E-S-I-G, something like that. Yeah, like I said, people people who love hypercars are like, like, this guy can't even say the name. But like uh, that was our like reference video just to see, you know, not like we're making the same thing, but like inspiration, like, hey, another small company. Look, look up K-O-N-N-S-I-G on Google and it'll should a car company and then it should just recommend the top link. And that's basically like I and I'm like that's like a huge company. Oh, here it is. You found it? Okay, look at that. Yeah, pull up the website so they make the world's fastest, I think, car or something like that. The street legal. So see, like incredible cars. I'm not that's not my car com uh the company that I'm working with. What I'm saying is that's when your reference videos are coming from that. You go, wow, like you know, we get to build something really cool, and guess what? Our budget is a tenth. Oh, you your time is one tenth of what they have, right? So so and then you're put in under these limitations or whatever, and then you go, okay, let me let me do something really cool here, and uh, you know, we can make hopefully the same better, or even if you get close to it under the the limited parameters that we have, uh, you know, because like I said, this project wasn't even close until like what Monday, and we were shooting Thursday, right? You know how tight the deathline was. I didn't even talk to you until like a day or two before the shoot, like, hey, let's go.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:39:10

Uh to be honest with you, I was so happy that I, you know, that the whole star is lined up. Like, yeah, I was available, Alex was in town. Uh, you we had all the gear, we had all the everything, and you were like, Yeah, meet me tomorrow at seven o'clock in the morning, six o'clock in the morning. You got it. Let's go. Yeah.

Vipul Bindra: 1:39:29

Yeah, it it came in to and to be able to get like it's a mat. I mean, uh, the FPV guy guy that I hired, Andrew wasn't available. So I was like, Oh, I gotta, I need an FPV. Because, like I said, if it's a regular drone, I can do it. But A, I want to direct, I don't want to be tied into a drone. So I was like, I need a drone pilot, but I need an FPV drone pilot. So I was like, Andrew, well, you can do it, then you gotta recommend me someone. And he was like, Hey, there's a guy I trust, and the guy did amazing, obviously. The footage was incredible. I wish we could be showing that right now, but it's it's not there yet, right? Uh so but yeah. No, that project was incredible. And talk about gratifying. To me, that was that that whole shoot day was gratifying. I was like, you tell me we get paid to do this, this is incredible. And I the only thing I was worried about is like, I hope that I don't get giddy. You know, I've been doing this since 2010. So I'm not like, you know, like this is like second nature to me. I love what I do, but I'm like not like giddy about shoots. I just like, yeah, whatever. It's a shoot. Like I I, you know, it's it's fun, but I'm not like, but this was one of those shoots where I don't know if you noticed, I was like very happy and excited to be there. But I was like, I hope the client doesn't think that who are these bunch of amateurs that I hired because we're all just so excited to be there. Because I'm like, it was fun to be around there, fun to be part of something incredible.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:40:41

I think if they are the ones having fun too, you know, like that just that just it's contagious. Exactly, right? I don't think I don't think it's a bad way because I remember when I was talking to the engineers and they were like talking about temperatures and the car and this and that and the other, and I was like, man, you guys have the coolest job in the world.

Vipul Bindra: 1:40:58

And they're like, Yep, mate, yeah, you know, yeah, they they love what they do. So yeah, no, that was a very gratifying project. Uh so no, thanks for asking about that. Yeah, I love what I do, but it's not every day we get to do cool stuff like that. That's where I'm gonna leave it. Not that what my other clients do is not cool, the shoots aren't that cool, they're more marketing related or you know, analytics related, which is fine. I love deep, deep diving into business and numbers, but you know, uh it's not as fun as a car shoot. So that's what I'm saying I'm really excited about finishing this project, sharing these videos, and they're gonna be coming slowly as probably what these podcast episodes roll out. So maybe in the future we'll be able to share some of the content. But uh, but yeah, no, I'm I'm so glad that you have been and will continue to be a part of this project, and hopefully more. And it just came from something very random as wanting to use a pocket three camera, and that's why I tell people the power of networking is is crazy. You would be amazed how many friends I have that I met through renting a random gear from them, like hey, I need this, or they rented something random from me because they needed it, you know, and I was I was the guy who had it. Like, connections can be made anywhere, and when you relate to each other, you want to work together. And if you work together to create great images, you progress and then you hire each other again, right? Right. Uh, and that's why a lot of people like ask me, they're like, should I go to film school? I'm like, not for the education element of it, not that uh they're not teaching good stuff, but it's just you don't need it, you can learn it on the job very easy. What we do, you don't need a degree for it, right? Yeah, but here's something you do gain at college is networking because you're gonna now be surrounded by other people who love to do what we do, right? And then guess what? Some of them obviously may not end up doing this full time after they get out of college happens, but someone may go direct a Hollywood movie, someone may go direct a Super Bowl commercial, you don't know. And if you are in that network, high chance, high likelihood, you're gonna go together and you're gonna be able to piggyback if each other, right? Where you know, oh, I know a great sound guy, or I know good that great DP or whatever, and you never know where your career goes. So networking is a huge element that you could get out of school. Uh, and not that you couldn't get it outside of school, but I'm saying that is the only good thing that comes out of film school, in my humble opinion. But uh, yes, being able to network, I think, is a is a huge element of what we do. It's only who you know, right? Like a lot of people are like, oh, I'll go buy like oh, Vipple has so much gear. I'll just go buy all this gear and somehow I have all this work. I'm like, most of my clients never call me because of the gear, they only call me because they know me or they trust me or they heard from someone they trust to hire me. I hope that makes sense. Yes, because so many people I know are like, this is going in the real. And I'm it's good, sure. You know, reels are nice, they're fine, but at least for what I do, where I help brands and companies, nobody on my none of my clients go to my website to watch a reel, right? They usually come and I always that's like number one thing. I always ask, so how'd you find out about me? Or why'd you decide to hire us or whatever? Just so no, I know, right? Where my clients are coming in, and most of the time it's that it's like, hey, we know this one who recommended you, or we met you here and we know you, right?

Esteban Eordogh: 1:44:26

That's how that's how so I do have a website, um, but most of the times or most of the new businesses that we have acquired has been through word of mouth.

Vipul Bindra: 1:44:38

Yeah, exactly, word of mouth. And then anytime they do come through social media, it's so crazy. I don't, which are we're trying to, obviously, by the time you watch this, you know, we're we're making an attempt to be more active on social media. But it's funny, I've had a few clients where they go, Yeah, we we we looked you we looked up you up and you had the better stuff than anyone else. And I'm like, Are you sure? Because I haven't updated my real in four years, I haven't posted about anything. So, I mean, absolutely, I'm like, so where'd you say I social media? Because you know, I I'm not gonna waste their time by asking 20 questions, but generally when I ask them, that's rare, but sometimes they've said that I'm like, uh even I'm debating, I'm like, uh, I know when they say, Oh, I know this person, I know what I've done for them, what kind of level of videos they've looked at, that helps give a reference point of the price point they're looking at. But it's it's hard when they're like, Yeah, we looked at social media, you had the best content. I'm like, not that we don't make good content, we don't post about it. So I was like, not that we shouldn't, that's just not a flaw on us, which is why I'm trying to do this, be more proactive. But um, most of my clients typically I'm saying they're not looking at reels, they're not, they're going by trust because they worked hard for their money, right? Or their jobs. Because if they're a marketing manager, they're their their head is on the line if they do a rehuge campaign and the campaign fails to bring in the revenue, right? Or they do uh uh, you know, or it's a CEO who's like limited funds for marketing and they spend it on me and I don't bring them results. So they're very careful where they spend money, and that's the thing. Like, I'm like, I hope people learn. It's like it's it's it's not that your creativity sucks or you're not good at what you do. You're definitely, you know, if you've got the skills, obviously that's important, but if you don't, acquire them. But a lot of times when you you're really good filmmakers, you sometimes still may be struggling. I listened to some filmmaker right now in LA was like, yeah, I'll take as low as 350 bucks, and I'm like, holy moly, right? Not that 350 bucks is a low amount of money, I'm saying, but for you to have that much experience and uh been in the industry so long, but you're struggling for work, when the industry is struggling, you'll take you know whatever you get. And and at the end of the day, I'm like, but there is a way out of it as long as you can give others a value. Because if your value is I'm a really good filmmaker, I'll bring a camera, then you're worth the few hundred bucks, right? And that's fine if that's what you enjoy. But at least to my clients, they pay a huge amount of money, is because I'm not bringing them value of camera. That's what I'm saying. The equipment is there to help me do the job, not because the client wants the equipment, right? Most of the time it's like, hey, we have this problem, we need more clients or whatever, right? Or we're struggling to grow, we need to figure out whatever. And then I go in, it's like, okay, this looks too old school, or this needs to be changed, it needs to be implemented on the video side, obviously, right? And then and then we make those videos, and they generally work because we know what we're doing, because we've done this so many times. Uh, you can look at reference points of this type of business, and then this is what they need, this is the result there was, and then you keep up, obviously, with the industries, because you gotta you gotta keep tweaking your work. But what I'm saying is it's just about helping others, and then they pay for videos, but indirectly for the results those videos would give, if that makes sense.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:48:01

And in what I have learned in the in the years that I've been, you know, short two years that I've been doing this, they don't care if you have an FX3 or an FX6. They all they care about is how much money is it gonna bring to them the product that we give them. So um, you know, what's my IRI? That's the that's the big thing.

Vipul Bindra: 1:48:20

So yeah, exactly. But I've had some people who go then, okay, I'm gonna keep up all the money and let me give them a shitty product because it it's still let's say thoughtfully produced. I'm just saying they don't deserve that either. I feel like you shouldn't take advantage of your clients, but at the end of the day, equipment doesn't matter, just use the right tool for the job, whether you have it or just rent it from your friends, go build a network, don't have a network, just call people, right? Like you said, meet, go on shoots, hang out, and you never know what leads to where, and you'll end up on who knows what set, and then you'll be working together. It's crazy. Like uh I have a friend who is like who got me on the job because he met someone on an Adidas shoot, and then they went on to do something together, right? Like they were random people on a shoot together, and they were like, hey, let's go make something together six months later, right? And and and so you never know where that network is coming from. Uh, but if you refuse to go be a PA or I don't know, gaffer or something, you know, it doesn't always have to be like you don't have to be a DP or a director every every shoot, you know. Uh because networking, I think, is a huge element in what we do because they have to know this agency or this company, let's say they want videos, they have to know you exist. And then they have to know that you will solve that problem. They're not gonna know that uh by you, you know, staying at your home or making a couple of Instagram reels. Like, I I love those reels as a filmmaker where it's like, hey, this is how I shot it, this is the final result. It's cool, but it's like, how do they know that solved the problem? If their problem is I don't have enough leads closing, right? Sure, we get a lot of leads in, but most of our leads don't close. We have a low conversion rate. I don't know if they care how you shot it and what's the end result. I hope that makes sense. Right. So, yeah, I mean, uh, you know, but again, that's that's why we're brought in, right? Now you do both style of videos, right? Uh, you've helped brands and and companies, but you've also done, like you said, uh music work. And in my little experience with it, I found that they don't generally have the bigger budgets. So, how have your experience been talking about business side of things working with concerts versus let's say a company?

Esteban Eordogh: 1:50:34

Two different worlds, okay? So usually for concerts you have a specific amount of money. I mean, I'm gonna say probably, you know, between the range of like a thousand to fifteen hundred bucks to go shoot a night, you know, do the next day, but that's a little quick thing in and out, right? Uh for corporate work, which is my preferred style, right? Like, don't get me wrong, I love concerts, I love l l live events, I dance, I sing, I jump and everything, but that's something that is more for fun than for actual cash, you know. Um corporate work for me, this is where it's at, right? Um more because uh whenever we do corporate work, okay, I am the person who actually does the interview. And I like sitting down with you know the customer, the the I like tell me about what your company is and try to get their emotion and draw that conversation towards that part while I control all the set and and I don't know, it's a it's a different, it's a different type of thing, it's a different feeling. Um but if you really want to make money into this, corporate is where it's at, right?

Vipul Bindra: 1:51:51

So you just moved into town, not not literally that long ago. Have you gotten a local client yet?

Esteban Eordogh: 1:51:58

Uh in Orlando, one how did you land that client?

Vipul Bindra: 1:52:02

Because I think it'd be a good thing to know through a friend that mutually, and how did that go? It was it's okay. It's okay. Do you so what's your strategy? So you're now in Newtown. Obviously, you know some people, but you're not like you don't you're you don't have a huge network, you just got here. Uh obviously you're lucky that you have a really good nine to five, but you know, you you have a production company and a partner, so you guys need to grow in this area.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:52:28

What is the strategy that you're thinking you're gonna deploy to go out and just you know, just so for now uh we have been running uh ads on social media, that's one. Um I have gone to uh two meetings in the chamber of commerce in my local chamber of commerce. Um which which one is that? Uh St. Cloud. Okay. Um have gone to two of them. I think that's very important just to network and figure out, you know. Yeah, or just be active in the community. Yeah, yeah. Uh I actually have uh contacted a couple of marketing agencies just giving out giving out names and numbers, uh met with other industry know people in the industry. Uh so there's several things that are going on at the same time. So but we're not completely dead still because a lot of the jobs that we actually have done have been in in Miami. So we actually have been traveling back and forth quite regularly. Um but I me personally, I am not in a position to be traveling three hours every single day, right? Just because I I just got married, I just bought a house, I do have a nine to five job. Um yeah, you got a lot going on.

Vipul Bindra: 1:54:00

Congratulations, marriage, new house, new city, new everything.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:54:03

Thank you. Um so it's been kind of uh yeah that that I don't know where I'm at. Uh I don't know anybody, that that sort of thing. So that's why things that like when we when we talked the first time, I was like, man, I just want to go and get the cameras out and do something.

Vipul Bindra: 1:54:24

And you know, I could totally get it because I was in Orlando for years, and I left for a few years and came back, and I was I felt like I didn't know anyone. I was like, I was here, I worked with people, and all of a sudden, it took me even a few months to like get out, go back, build a network, talk to people. Uh, because like you said, once you leave an area, like you, you, you know, you lose touch or whatever, and people all sort of traveling and moving all the time. So for you to come to, like you said, a new city where you you didn't even live here for years, like I did. So uh, you know, it can be difficult, but it's doable. I don't I don't want anyone to to think that it's not doable. At the end of the day, it's just about, like you said, boots in the ground, meeting the people. Uh, shout out to Steven, who was the finale on the last season. He's the president of the Western Chamber of Commerce. I had him on the podcast, quite literally telling you from the chamber's perspective how to get the most out of it. I don't know how easier I can make it. Uh, like for people who who love what they do, they just want this to be a full-time career or to make whatever kind of money they're looking to make from the corporate commercial world. But uh, looking on your perspective, why did you then pick sounds like Miami's more active, which makes sense. A lot of concerts there. Uh, why did you pick Orlando or South Orlando in general as your location to buy a house and move to over Miami?

Esteban Eordogh: 1:55:42

Price. Just price. Just price, period. With the amount of money that I was gonna buy something here, I would not buy half of the property in Miami. Miami's very expensive, makes sense. So, you know, I said that it was much more let's call it chill environment than Miami. Uh, I was born in Caracas, Venezuela, so it's a it's a pretty crazy atmosphere. So I wanted something out a little more calm. Um, St.

Vipul Bindra: 1:56:07

Cloud's really beautiful, yeah.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:56:08

And so that's why I picked that's why I picked the Orlando.

Vipul Bindra: 1:56:11

For being Orlando, yeah. Orlando's not chill because we are the tourist capital of America, if not the world. But St. Cloud's near the tourist area, like you're next to Kissimmee, but you're not there. So you get the quaint, you know, small town vibe while being in the major, you know, metropolitan area of Orlando. So it's a it's a good pick.

Esteban Eordogh: 1:56:29

Not only that, you know, I strategically picked um I strategically picked being close to the uh Florida Turnpike, so that way I can just hop on the turnpike if I need to, and that's it. And just end up wherever, yeah. Right.

Vipul Bindra: 1:56:43

So yeah, which is awesome, which is why you were able to come here. I can't believe you just moved because you know, you you not only moved to town, but then you bought a house and you know closed on it and moved. That took a second, but you just moved literally to your new house a few days ago. So for you, and I know it was chaos. When I moved here, dude, uh, we didn't even get our plan was oh, we'll get the thing, we'll put up the blinds, you know, because this was renovated, they didn't even have blinds. I was like, we didn't even get blinds in here for days like after we had closed on the house. So because you know, there's so much to do when you buy a brand new house. So I can't believe that uh you're still you're here doing this and talking to me, but this is awesome. I really want to connect because like I said, it's usually I connect with someone and then we go on a shoot. It's the opposite with you, where we went on a shoot and then we're now connecting. Not that we didn't talk that day, we talked significant amount, but that was while we were working. But to be able to come and do this uh while we're uh uh you know doing this, you know, in this type of setting. But it's great to learn. I can't wait to do more shoots with you and just collaborate in general because I think uh now that I've seen your skill, I saw what we were able to do. I know we were only using pocket threes, but just with their BTS content, because you were you know doing it with your ZE1, Z V E1, and just in general, the vibe, because to me it's like you know, when you hang out with people is when you get realize how their wives are. Yeah, when you know when you know someone knows you just like the footage is fire, that that adds to the elements. So I think what we created was awesome, it was fun to hang out. I think that all five of us just had such a great time. The client loved it, we loved it, which is I think the best of both worlds, and uh I can't wait to just do more shoots with you. So before we go, uh you know, can't believe it's freaking been already two hours. Uh right, Mario? Um are we running uh almost where what time are we looking at?

Mario Rangel: 1:58:34

Yeah, we're good. We're almost at two uh two hours.

Vipul Bindra: 1:58:37

Okay, so before we go, Esteban, uh, you want to tell people where to go follow you or where to come learn more about what you do?

Esteban Eordogh: 1:58:45

All right, so my our website is uh phoenixfilms.co. We have the entire portfolio that we have done there, uh, anywhere from photography uh to uh corporate videography, events, live events, um sports, and uh gastronomy, aka food and cocktails. Um and our Instagram page is uh Phoenixfilms 901. So at Phoenix Films 901, and you can just follow us there and send us a message. Um right now, like I said, you know, I'm open to meeting new people, figuring out you know where things are. I know it's gonna take a minute before I actually start connecting with like potential customers and all that stuff. Uh, but man, I am more than happy to like I did with you, man. You know, just go let's go out on a shoot. Let's go out, you know.

Vipul Bindra: 1:59:40

Let's go out, let's get the cameras out. And like I said, I highly recommend listening to Steven's podcast because I really love what you said about you've already been to the Chamber of Commerce. The biggest thing is how to get the most out of Chamber of Commerce. A biggest thing is like you said, you gotta get connected. But when you do, there's certain ways to approach it. I would highly recommend listening from the present. President, because you know he's outsider from video, so he could tell you exactly how to make as a video business the most out of it. But you are taking the right steps. This is exactly what I did, and it worked for me when I moved back to Orlando. You go out and be more active in the business community, go meet other filmmakers, you just do what you do, right? And don't stop taking gigs from Memphis. I don't think you are, because you got to continue. Like I left Alabama doesn't mean we're not taking gigs from Memphis. I'm going back tomorrow. I'm going back tomorrow for a gig tomorrow. And right, yeah. So so the the what we do, location technically doesn't matter because like I'm on a plane all the time, just came back from Chicago, you know, we're gonna go somewhere else. I think Missouri next. So it's like you're always, I'm saying, traveling. So uh it it doesn't matter. You're in Orlando doesn't mean you can't take gigs in Memphis still or other places, right? So I think you're on the right path. I'm just so glad we connected. We're definitely gonna shoot more, and uh, I'm just just happy to you know have you in my network. And uh, I'm so glad you're in Orlando, man. We're gonna we're gonna kill it. So thank you, Esteban. This was fun talking, man. Until next time.

Esteban Eordogh: 2:00:59

Yeah, cool, brother.

Mario Rangel: 2:01:01

Thank you, Mario. Thank you guys. Bye bye.