Vipul Bindra: 0:04

all right, look who we have here, mr ben, thank you for coming what's going on, bro, how you doing I'm doing great.

Vipul Bindra: 0:11

Thank you for for coming. I know you're a busy man. You live a little far away, so driving here and coming to talk with me, you know, and kind of like we were talking. The point of this is just, you know, when I started my production company, all the people that I thought were successful didn't want to share anything, and by the time I found people who were successful, I'd already figured it out and stumbled my way across to, I would say, somewhat of a little success in video field. So these are just conversations where I'm genuinely trying to learn and then hopefully, you learn something. And if the people watching learn something, then hey, even if they learn a little bit, and, worst case, they just have some entertaining conversation, right. So that's the point of this.

Ben Mangum: 0:49

So, again, like I said, thank you for coming. How's things?

Vipul Bindra: 0:51

been man.

Ben Mangum: 0:51

I think your 2024 was amazing, right yeah, I mean, it was my biggest year yet, so I can't complain.

Ben Mangum: 0:57

Um no, there's always something to learn Bindra , from Vipul. So I'm excited, dude. Thanks for having me on I'm excited.

Ben Mangum: 1:20

other people can listen to it and find it maybe interesting, maybe boring, I don't know no, I mean, dude, I love the format that you're going for, because I've thought about doing a podcast before, but I always thought, like man, that sounds exhausting, like trying to come up with a main topic for an episode like how to use mark how to do marketing on social media, whatever, like you see it on some of those business podcasts, but I personally, I'm a big fan of the ones.

Ben Mangum: 1:45

I have no agenda. They're just bullshit and they're just talking. This is what this is.

Vipul Bindra: 1:49

Yeah now there's the agenda is to to just give be informational if we can yeah because the truth is, um, uh, you know I've been talking about this for years, but that was my main thing. I'm a working professional. I don't have courses or other things to sell to people, so there is no revenue from this. This is I'm doing this purely out of fun, or, I guess, to want to do it. That's why it took a few years to start. I'm just glad it has started and that we're doing this, um, and, like I said, I'm ready to learn from you because I know you're doing things that I tried six years ago and didn't work. For some reason, they are working for you. I don't know if the market has changed or if you're doing something great. Either way, it's fantastic, so so bring it there.

Vipul Bindra: 2:33

Where I want to start is, um, instagram ads, right, yeah, so I tried. This is back in 2018, when I was like, okay, I'm no longer a freelancer, I'm gonna go all in and I'm gonna be a big production company. Yeah, okay, at least that was the thought process. So I tried ads. I spent thousands and thousands on Google and Facebook and Meta whatever and Instagram, and I didn't really get return, and all the leads that I would get would be like can you do me a music video, can you make me a commercial? Okay, but I only have 200 bucks, or you know, they were not the leads that I was looking for, so ultimately, I just called it a total loss and moved on.

Vipul Bindra: 3:08

And I found success through referrals, and that's how I've been running my business, which is why I end up barely posting anything on instagram because I'm like oh, my ceos are hanging out at a golf course, not at instagram however, which is valid? Yeah yeah, but but here's the contrast two weeks ago, when we last talking, you were mentioning how you've been running ads and you've closed deals that are in the thousands, which is incredible. So talk more about that.

Ben Mangum: 3:33

Yeah, for sure, man, um, I, so I just have experience with Instagram ads, not Facebook or Google, so honestly, I don't really know why those didn't work for you. Um, but I just happened to fall into it with, like in the past year, in 2020, I mean, dude, really, since 2020, I've bought in so many courses and coaching programs which, like I'm, I don't refer the most part. I don't regret doing it all. Um, I credit to where I currently am, like majority, the majority because of that, know. Um, so anyway, the, the guy that I fell upon did instagram ads, like they call it like a follower funnel. That's generally what people call it, and do you want me to basically just like go into this?

Vipul Bindra: 4:17

yeah, I mean. Whatever you want to talk about, man, this is unscripted. Whatever I mean, I just want to genuinely learn. I mean sure, what? How are you finding success and, according to you, what do you think that is?

Ben Mangum: 4:28

for sure. I think one way that I'm finding success with instagram ads just feedback from the people that I talk to is the fact that I'm local. People, from what I've heard, or people's perception is like it's just this, like huge company in another state or something like that. So when you're targeting local businesses or you know, kind of just like your everyday guy that has a business type of deal, they like the fact that I'm local. So I think that's like a big factor. Then you have I mean, the type of strategy that I've been doing has been working pretty well for me.

Ben Mangum: 4:59

It's not that there's only one way to do something, whether it's marketing, growing a video business or it's ads there, it can. You can make whatever method work. I mean not that I've tried every method, but you know that's what you kind of. You see other people having success with other stuff, but, um, I, I just run, I run follower ads. So I target a local area like a 15 mile radius Uh, so I'm not like targeting the whole state of Florida or even that really big of an area, and then all I do is I get traffic to my Instagram page. So the only call to action on the ad is visit Instagram profile and then I'll basically just like walk through step by step what generally you should do so like. Then you have your Instagram bio optimized. You'd kind of be surprised that.

Ben Mangum: 5:47

Yeah, like people's Instagram, but it's not clear on what they do, or it's just like messy, or maybe it's vague. So, like you just want to like clean up your profile, make sure it looks good. Um, whether you know you have your name or you also have your production name, then make it clear on who you help and what you offer. Basically, I feel like I've changed my bio so many times that I don't remember what it currently is, but I think it's. I help service-based businesses get more clients on Instagram something like that.

Vipul Bindra: 6:18

That's very clear, though. I mean. It tells people what you do.

Ben Mangum: 6:20

Yeah, in the online space it's kind of douchey to do that.

Vipul Bindra: 6:24

I get kind of jaded and tired of like I help whatever, but at the same time, that's what you do yeah, it just helps.

Ben Mangum: 6:31

You know um so, and then you can also have like a keyword call to action in your uh in your bio. So like dm me the word video and I'll send you a free content guide or something like that, so that's a way that you can get more people to message you. But overall, this strategy is you target a local area, you get more traffic to your Instagram profile, then they follow you, and then you message them, and then you book a call and you sell them. That's the whole thing, really.

Vipul Bindra: 7:00

So it's like what we've done all the time. It's just you're automating the, at least bringing the leads in through Instagram, right? Yeah? Yeah, pretty much. Are you doing any kind of A-B testing, like, are you running? Hey, I shot four different things and to see which one got more response, no, are you running multiples at once or just one?

Ben Mangum: 7:19

Last month I did multiples, but they were different types of ads, so it was like one was a follower ad and the other ones were like retargeting to get a message. I actually didn't have good success with the messenger ones, but I'm assuming it was because I didn't have, like, any social proof within the retargeting one. So that's kind of something you kind of just change one variable, but I probably should you know AB test and do it.

Vipul Bindra: 7:46

It'd be cool.

Ben Mangum: 7:47

Yeah, it's funny for me to like talk about ads and I'm happy to but at the same time I'm like okay, I know I could be doing ads way better, or like maybe, but I'm still.

Vipul Bindra: 7:55

But whatever you're doing obviously is working. So, but what I'm? Instantly my brain just goes business, business. It's like yeah it'd be cool to record three different things that ask the same call to action cta but they're different, so then you run them all three and see which one gets more views yeah and then you can kind of hyper analyze that why that one got more views.

Vipul Bindra: 8:14

Was it the title? Was it how you were dressed? Because, you know, sometimes I've seen on internet ads, even though it looks stupid, but the louder you are, people pay, pay more attention. So silly things like that could actually be working. And I would love to know from, instead of these online gurus, somebody I know and trust, if that's actually true. So it'd be cool. I mean, I hear that from other people.

Ben Mangum: 8:36

Yeah, I don't do any like crazy split testing like that I probably should. But the only caveat or not caveat, but the only thing to know for this type of ad strategy is when you do the visit like visit profile ads, you have to post it as an organic piece of content first, and then you go into meta business suite and then launch it as an ad.

Ben Mangum: 8:59

So it's not like the traditional way where you go into ads manager and then you create the ad and you can add multiple ads within that ad set. That would be the more place where you can test the different hooks and stuff like that. But uh, yeah, so that's kind of one thing to know.

Vipul Bindra: 9:17

It would kind of be weird if I posted three of the same video organically and then, yeah, I guess you could, but I mean over a different space, I space, I guess, and then and boost them at the same time that's true also.

Ben Mangum: 9:27

Yeah, I mean somebody actually I, I'm was wrong. I was running two ads at the same time but they were completely different, like messages. I mean. You know, they were different videos. It wasn't like super yeah, it wasn't the.

Vipul Bindra: 9:40

So what are you saying in one of these? So give us an example like what would you, what should you say?

Ben Mangum: 9:44

yeah look, you're a service-based business and I know you're tired of spending hours at networking events passing out your business card, trying to grow your business. You're great at what you do. You just need more people to sell to every day. If you want to learn how to do this, give me a follow to learn how my client, josh, landed 12 new clients with only x amount of ad spent.

Vipul Bindra: 10:09

So it's like I did. That's almost word for word in my ad. I've heard it so many times editing. It sounds like I've listened to this before.

Ben Mangum: 10:12

Yeah um, I do like a space where like look your service, because no, I think this is a pretty good.

Vipul Bindra: 10:20

I mean, I like what, what you just said, yeah yeah, like, uh.

Ben Mangum: 10:23

Sometimes instagram will cut off that like first half a second. So sometimes, like, so you're uh. Or like, look, you're a service-based business, so you have that little space. But, um, I don't know, I feel the need to kind of break this down. I feel like it'd be valuable and we have a long time to talk. So, yes, plenty of time I basically like do a market call out and then I have um market call out, do be location specific. One thing I didn't say when I was talking about that.

Ben Mangum: 10:52

I was like, look, you're a service-based business here in ocala, oh, california so like you're here you're yeah, you're a service based business here in orlando, and I mean you can get even more specific. So that's one thing that will, uh, get more people to resonate like, oh okay, orlando, this isn't just some big ad or whatever Um market call out. Then you go right into the pain point. So I know you're tired of spending hours at networking events passing out your business card, trying to get your business. That's a pain point, um, and then I kind of just resonated with them, like you're good at what you do, you just need more people to sell to every day. Or I could say you've been in business for five to 10 plus years and you're successful, but there's nothing more frustrating than feeling like you hit a growth ceiling. So I'm kind of resonating with them and then you do ideal outcome, um.

Ben Mangum: 11:45

So if you want a predictable way to grow your business without having to rely on word of mouth in this type of ad strategy, I would say give me a follow and check out some of my other content to learn how. Or if you're just running ads to a landing page, click the link below and book a call so we can do this. Or you may have something that you're trying to give away for free, like click the link below to get a call so we can do this. Or you may have something that you're trying to give away for free, like click the link. Click the link below to get a free training on my ad strategy that you can implement yourself, or something like that. So, um, and then you want to add social proof in there.

Ben Mangum: 12:15

That's huge, adding results and stuff like that so that's kind of like a little rough breakdown, like market call out pain point, ideal outcome.

Vipul Bindra: 12:29

I try to add a cta in the middle of the ad, like follow, and then I do another. So you're doing two cts, okay, and so so. So let's so. Which is amazing? First of all, you breaking down that, that's amazing. But it's interesting that I did the six years ago and I remember doing it very similar, but I, I didn't, obviously.

Vipul Bindra: 12:45

But so I'm saying it's so crazy to think about that. At least I was not doing the wrong thing. So now they come to your profile, right? What's the next step? So they've come to your profile, they're following you. Now how do you convert that to a call? Cause? That's the goal, right?

Ben Mangum: 12:59

Yep, that's the goal. So the ideal situation is they're going to watch your other content and the idea is to post valuable content related to what you're talking about. I don't only post about that stuff, like I post my life or I post other types of stuff, just because I do it under my personal brand or, you know, my personal page, whatever. So I see that they followed me and then I will check out their Instagram profile and I'll see that they run a business. A lot of times people it won't be obvious that they run a business. They may have a successful one, but they're using their personal Instagram to follow you. So the whole idea is to try and find, like some type of connection point that you can resonate with them and get them to respond, because people are probably somewhat used to like people hitting them up and it's just spam or whatever.

Ben Mangum: 13:49

Uh, people will copy and pasted this message to a hundred people, so you want to check out their profile and find something that you can connect with. So, um, maybe they have the same type of dog as you do, or, uh, they like to travel, or something like that. So it's like, uh, they or they went to a specific concert, or something like that. So I would say, hey, first name, whatever their name is. Um, I see, it depends. I'm I'm trying to say multiple things in one thing. So either it's obvious that they run a business and then I'm going to acknowledge that. So let's say it's obvious they run a business. So, hey, first name, I see you run a tile business here in Ocala. Your work looks amazing. How long have you been running your business? And then they'll say five years, oh, cool, like, how's business going? Or something like that.

Vipul Bindra: 14:43

Like you're just having a conversation.

Ben Mangum: 14:45

Yeah, I just have a conversation with them and then, basically after that, once I get them to respond, in my case, I ask them, like, so how are you guys getting clients? Are you mostly relying on word of mouth? And they'll say nine times out of ten they'll say yes and say, oh, okay, cool. Like, have you ever thought about running local ads to get clients from your social media? Or have you ever thought about doing video content to grow your business? And they'll say, oh, I've thought about it, oh, cool. Well, I'd love to get on a quick call with you to learn more about your business and give you a rundown on what I do or I'm trying to, like think of something specific that I actually said, but it's yeah, I just say hey, I would love to give you like a quick breakdown on a, on a call um, just to give you a ton of value no sales pitch, or whatever.

Vipul Bindra: 15:32

Yeah, that's pretty cool. So you're I'm trying to be as specific as possible to actually give value compared to like oh you just message people it, so that's pretty cool.

Vipul Bindra: 15:48

So sounds like, run an ad, run it hyper, local, right and give an exact example in the ad of success. So they know, you know, like, give them a pain point, address the local market, um, give an hyper, um you know, realistic example of how you were able to bring success. You know, you, you get them to follow your profile. That's at least one way you're doing it. And then the ones that come to your profile, you kind of stalk them. I'm just kidding. But then you essentially try to start a conversation which is genuine in a way, because they wouldn't have followed you if you weren't interested in what you're doing.

Ben Mangum: 16:18

They followed you for a reason Exactly.

Vipul Bindra: 16:20

They weren't just following you because they wanted to learn about video business, because they clearly don't do that. No, and you told them in the ad to follow you. Exactly, so they follow through and that means also that means they're likely to buy, because they did follow through with the call to action.

Ben Mangum: 16:36

Yeah, and it's a very low barrier to entry. Call to action, like you're not telling them to fill out a form, which that can work too, but you're only going to get people who are like a very hot lead.

Vipul Bindra: 16:46

Like oh yeah, we need video right now. Yeah, at that point you know you're going to close or there's a high chance you can close.

Ben Mangum: 16:52

That is a much higher chance than this strategy, but you can attract. The cool thing is you can attract different levels of interest, like super high interest, medium interest, low interest.

Vipul Bindra: 17:09

Sometimes you get people who just exactly follow you, for whatever I did that, um, initially, for years, like my website, there was no way to direct contact me without filling out a huge form. And what I found, though, that the leads that came in were incredibly, um, ready to buy. Because they took that effort, they were ready to buy, but the here's the opposite side of it. Ever since I stopped doing that, I do get a ton more leads, and sure, a few of them are not, you know, I would say, good leads, but we are closing people that I know for a fact wouldn't have filled out, yeah, that huge form because they weren't even sure about what they're looking for, right, they're just like, hey, I know I need video, and so they can't fill out a form and they don't even know what they want for sure. So there's, there's strategies to both, and uh. So, so now you've reached out, you get on a call with them, right, they're ready to buy, or they're ready to at least hop on a call with you. What's your focus on the call?

Ben Mangum: 17:53

I mean, I just do a regular sales meeting with them. I tell them like oh, I'll tell them like, yeah, let's get on a call. I'll give you a quick breakdown on how it is, but like you do a sales call, quick breakdown on how it is, but like you do a sales call like you just, oh, like cool, Tell me a little bit about your business.

Vipul Bindra: 18:09

They tell you, and then you figure out the pain point, the actual pain point for them Exactly.

Ben Mangum: 18:12

So I've dabbled with a few different ways to do this. So, um, at first I was doing straight into an hour long zoom call, which works too. Or some people, if they're super local to you, go right into a coffee in-person meeting. However, they're not qualified at all, so you could be wasting a lot of your time by doing that.

Ben Mangum: 18:34

So, and that's where that form comes in, like you were talking about, but by doing a 10 minute phone call you can qualify them like oh yeah, we've been in business five years, we've been um, we're doing 50 000 a month or whatever. We want to get to 100 000 a month. So yeah, there's different ways that I've experimented of what works, because I don't use the discovery form anymore either because, like they came in through an ad, you message them like it could just be a limiting belief, but I'm not just going to send a form over this long form over it, cause I'm kind of on offense with these ads.

Ben Mangum: 19:11

Um so, um, yeah, a lot of times I will do like a 10 minute quick phone call, like okay, they weren't a dick, like all right, they have a business. I felt like I could help them. So I give them a very brief rundown of what I offer. So, like, I asked them about their business, their goals, pain points, just very briefly, and then I share a little bit.

Ben Mangum: 19:35

Yeah, so, like, what I do is, um, you know, I teach my clients how to do the exact thing that got you into my world. So, um, you know, we create the content for you and then we help you run local ads to help you get more customers. So it's like super vague, but, um, you know, I'd love to you know, typically, what I do is I meet people in person. That way you get a vibe for me, I get a vibe for you, that way you like understand who you could be working with. Um, and then I can, you know, dive a little bit deeper into, like, what you're looking to accomplish with your business, and I can share my exact process of how this works. So I do a quick qualifier call and then I either do in person or like a zoom call.

Vipul Bindra: 20:12

So, so what? So let's look at a few examples of um, uh, what would they say that would make you not qualify them?

Ben Mangum: 20:21

Mm, they, they want to start a business or they've. I mean, this can kind of depend. They maybe they just started and their revenue is super low. But, however, I just spoke to someone today that started three months ago but they did like 50 000 in revenue.

Vipul Bindra: 20:37

They're so they have the money to run ads.

Ben Mangum: 20:39

Yeah, yeah, like they're good at sales, they're obviously like running a business. It's not like they made a couple hundred or a few thousand bucks because I wouldn't be able to pay a few thousand bucks.

Vipul Bindra: 20:49

You know what I'm saying? That wouldn't be their priority, obviously, especially when, when they can't even pay their bills yet. Yeah, so that's a big one like revenue.

Ben Mangum: 20:57

Um a big one would be like products. Me personally, I don't do like product-based businesses like service-based businesses yeah, I don't know. I feel more confident that I could help them compared to like, oh, I want to. I I don't even talk to people who have products, so I can't even. But you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know I do both.

Vipul Bindra: 21:18

I mean, obviously, products are a lot easier. To be honest, I love doing product videos because I don't have to go to location. Most of my shoots are travel or you know whatever go in a location. However, just like you, I prefer service-based businesses, because here's the thing, as long as they say what they do which is my qualifier right like they're like, oh, we're a good plumber, I have to make sure they're a good plumber yeah but outside of that, here's, here's the the issue that I find like when somebody needs a plumber, they're googling, or they're asking their friend like, who's a good plumber?

Vipul Bindra: 21:46

they all say, yeah, we're a good plumber, right, and it's a website, or blah, blah, blah. Then how do I know who I want in my house fixing my pipes and not causing a disaster? And we've all seen online videos where the whole house flooded because they came to fix a tiny leak and they screwed up. So a video to me would be amazing, because now I can see who the owner is, what their beliefs are, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, and I know it would work for me, so I know it would work for others. So, which is why I think kind of probably why you prefer service-based businesses too, because we just have to show what they're already doing great, and video is the best tool to do that yeah, I mean, they're basically outside of selling the service, like you're selling the people and there's a lot of trust involved.

Ben Mangum: 22:29

But yeah, like people are coming into your home or, uh, it costs a lot of money to do the service, like they don't want to just spend their money with anybody. So video allows you to create that trust, create that connection with people and yeah, that's what.

Vipul Bindra: 22:43

And yeah, because people, yeah, people people buy from people who they know like and trust exactly and if you don't know them and they don't like you, they don't trust you. Video is the best tool to build that um you know, virtually essentially, um, so yeah, no, that's incredible. So, okay, now you're at the uh and I know I mean we're hyper focusing on this, but I think this is a cool thing.

Ben Mangum: 23:04

Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm hoping If there's you or people that actually want to do it that I actually told you what to do compared to like. Oh yeah, just run Instagram profile ads.

Vipul Bindra: 23:14

It's like you wasted hundreds of dollars for no reason on your time. So okay, so now you met in plus. I'm just helping. Hopefully somebody can understand sales, because here's the truth how much I am a filmmaker and I love the creative process. There's enough. You know how you say broke artists in this. You have to be good at sales or you'll never get anywhere, no matter how good of an artist you are, and so and that's just how it is because, again, like me, there's a million people who'll say I'll, I'll come make a video for you.

Vipul Bindra: 23:44

You don't want to be the guy that makes a video, you want to be solving a problem right, yeah which I know we think very alike. So, um, so, coming to um, to the meeting now, right, okay, so they're ready, they've committed. You guys meet for coffee or their office or wherever you're meeting. How do you like to lead that meeting?

Ben Mangum: 24:02

well, I feel like we should also get very specific yeah, no, let's get specific.

Ben Mangum: 24:06

Okay down to it, yeah yeah, um, so you get in, you build a little rapport. So you just like, maybe you ask them where they're from. I mean, you could build rapport over anything. Oh yeah, this weather sucks today it's raining, whatever. Um, I don't know their car, where they're from.

Ben Mangum: 24:23

So you build, like you don't just go right into business right away, but you do that for a minute or so, and then I think it's so important to set the frame for the meeting, like, you set the agenda and basically all you do is like cool man. So I have an hour set aside to meet with you today. I'd love to learn more about your business and where you guys are at. So, typically, typically, the way I run these meetings is I want to learn more about your business. I'm going to ask you a ton of questions just to like get really clear on what you want to accomplish. I'm going to ask you about you know, revenue and where you're at currently and where you're trying to go to, and then, if I feel like I can help you, I can share a little bit more about what I do and what our process is, and I can give you a quote in this meeting today.

Ben Mangum: 25:10

You know, does that sound fair. Okay, so like whatever you're, yeah, like whatever your offer. Maybe you do a second meeting, that's fine. You got to go build a proposal. But just tell them that like hey, you know I want to get a clear understanding of where you're at. I'm going to ask you a ton of questions. I like saying I'm going to ask you about money. I don't say that, but you know I'm going to ask you about, you know, revenue goals where you're at currently. That like helps me mentally bring up the money question without like feeling uncomfortable so like I ask them ahead of time like hey, is this cool?

Ben Mangum: 25:39

Like does that sound good? And they say yes, they agree to it. That does that sound good? And they say yes, they agree to it. Um, that was a huge game changer for me, because I remember a couple meetings where they just walk all over you like they're the ones asking you questions. They're talking so much about just whatever, um, and then basically at some point they're like okay, well, how much is it?

Ben Mangum: 26:00

and you just like you have no context or yeah yeah, or like you just don't have any authority either, like you didn't position yourself well. So I think, like setting the frame is huge, and I think, like I used to make that mistake too. Do you do that as well? No, yeah.

Vipul Bindra: 26:15

That's pretty great. I always again not just like, but again very similar though I, if I am having in-person meetings, which, to be honest, nowadays I'm just like, I like qualified leads, just oh yeah, of course so they're already sold. At this point I'm just trying to figure out the pain point.

Vipul Bindra: 26:28

But, yes, if I'm having a cold outreach or killed any kind of person that I don't know that well, I am always setting the agenda as in like hey, uh, thanks for meeting with me. Just like you said, the. So the goal today is to figure out exactly how video can help in your business, and once I figure that out, I'll be able to give you an investment amount that you need and then we can go from here is that, is that? Does that sound good?

Vipul Bindra: 26:51

you know, I like how you said yeah, exactly, yeah, that's nice because if because my whole thing is honesty I've learned very quickly in this thing that because, again, I had a sales job before this, right, I had 15 people or whatever under me and I was a manager or whatever and I was like I don't want to do this, I don't want to. It was miserable life I don't want to do. Obviously I want to do sales, but I don't want to do it like how traditionally it's done. The whole point of this company was to make my passion into my work, right. So if I'm going to be miserable, I don't want to do it. So my whole strategy since the beginning and it may not be the best strategy has been just be honest. So I genuinely go in a meeting going like I'm how can I help this person? And if I can't help this person, I will honestly be like look, video isn't right. Like you said, you need more revenue or you need something else first before video comes in, because every business does need video.

Vipul Bindra: 27:44

It's just video may not be the solution to the problem they have currently yeah and as long as I approach it with honesty, I feel like the person can see through that and we can have a, like you said, honest conversation, because that's all we need to get to where we need to be yeah we're not trying to bs them with anything just just for the sake of it.

Ben Mangum: 28:05

Right like we're busy too. We're trying to have some trick questions exactly.

Vipul Bindra: 28:09

Yeah, because our goal is the same that their goal is, which is what the problem is. It's just funny enough. You think they're business owners, uh, and I'm sure you've noticed in your meetings. Half the time they don't really know what the core problem is. No, because they'll say, oh yeah, we want to make more money, and but you have to deep dive, like, okay, so why are you not making money? Is your product good? Is your service good? Like, where's the lack? Is it just you don't have too many employees, or are you losing leads? Are you not closing leads? Like we have to narrow it down to the actual problem, to offer a video.

Vipul Bindra: 28:41

Exactly, yeah, cause how many times have you gotten a call where like, hey, I need a video, okay what video? And they're like I don't know well that that could mean anything I don't know I could make a movie about your business for 10 million dollars.

Ben Mangum: 28:54

I don't know, what do you want like?

Vipul Bindra: 28:56

because that's like a wider. It's like going to a restaurant saying, go give me food what?

Ben Mangum: 29:02

what do you want, yeah?

Vipul Bindra: 29:03

what do you like? Do you have any allergies?

Vipul Bindra: 29:05

right, like anyway that's funny, I think right, oh yeah, for sure I think very similar, but obviously I'm not running ads, um. But, like I said, to be honest at this point, I don't even like to do that much cold stuff. Um, I like to meet with people that either I have worked with or that they've been referred to by somebody else because they are. I don't need to. I don't like to sell myself right, I know what I'm capable of. I've already made, the last six years, 500 million plus revenue generated for the people who worked with me. I don't want to go and be like, yes, I can make you money, because that's not what I'm selling. I'm selling is great looking videos that hopefully solve a business problem and my other clients tell me that they work. I've not had one client tell me they didn't work, so clearly I'm doing something good, yeah, but I don't want to go in a pitch. You know, be like I'll make you 10x revenue, because what if they don't?

Vipul Bindra: 29:58

and then they're like well, you didn't make it you know anyway, but yeah, yeah, but when?

Vipul Bindra: 30:02

they come as a warm lead. They already know what, what you do Right. Then at that point I'm just trying to figure out the pain point and then can we do it. And the biggest X factor, for me at least, is budget.

Vipul Bindra: 30:11

So sometimes they just don't have the budget to make video and I don't want to make a video that's not matching their brand level, like I've had where they have a, an, an app with millions of followers, right, and I budgeted them. They wanted like an overall video like 10 grand, which is very low budget for a, for a video, um, at that scale. But then they were like oh, we only have two, three grand and anyone else would have been like sure, I want the two, three grand, but I know I can't justice to the app with millions of followers, it's not gonna match, right, the video is not gonna be the quality that people expect an app like that to be. Then at that point you go hey look, it's not going to match your brand's guidelines and I know for a fact nobody, anyone can't do that. Um, but here's, when you're ready, just give me a call back.

Ben Mangum: 30:55

Like you know that that's yeah, that always feels good, yeah, anyway back to back to where we're outside my tangent. Yeah, I love it.

Vipul Bindra: 31:02

Uh, so so okay, so you've you're, you've set the agenda and hopefully there's a buy-in. Actually, let's go the other way. I want to know what if they don't have a buy-in? Have you had somebody go?

Ben Mangum: 31:11

I know that's not good or no, what they don't have a buy. Oh no, I never. Okay, that would be what I want to learn. No, sir, no, I can't okay. No, you've always had a buy-in, so that's great, of course yeah, so they bought in.

Vipul Bindra: 31:26

Um, then you obviously, I'm guessing I don't know, let me know if there's more to in depth in here, but I'm guessing you just run the meeting, which is what asking about the revenue? Exactly and um what else? I mean what? What are typically you trying to find out?

Ben Mangum: 31:38

um, I would say I want to get clear on what they offer because sometimes people could like you can make assumptions and that's not what they're focused on, or something like. Like someone, I was talking to someone today that have a tile shop, but I just wanted to get clear that they wanted to focus on installation like flooring installations and I assumed they mostly did tile, but really they mostly do like vinyl plank and wood flooring.

Ben Mangum: 32:03

So you know if I just assumed oh, you want to get more showers, then I start talking like that. It kind of makes me look like a dickhead, like you know you're just making assumptions.

Ben Mangum: 32:11

So I like to just get clear on what their offer is. Ask them about their sales process. So like, how are you like? What does it look like? Somebody finds your business? You know, are you doing an in-person estimate? Or you know, are people finding you on Google and then they're filling out a form. So that can kind of just help you get a little creative on what videos make sense to help them out.

Ben Mangum: 32:36

So I'm just trying to think of examples that are different than just asking them what their goals are and what their pain points are, and what's the type of typical videos that you are selling out of these? Yeah, just an example.

Vipul Bindra: 32:47

I know they're probably wide variety of them but what? Are the common ones mostly in last year.

Ben Mangum: 32:53

I mostly did short form, I think. I did about only three or four brand videos like video business cards, which is crazy. I used to do a lot of those. Uh, so you're focusing more on what Instagram TikTok stuff like that Like vertical content essentially yeah, okay, I mean, hey, it pays the bills, it pays the bills. Look, I was very against vertical video.

Vipul Bindra: 33:12

for a long time I've turned around, so I'm all for it.

Ben Mangum: 33:14

Make horizontal great again.

Vipul Bindra: 33:17

Look, I don't know why people can't turn their phone this way, but we have, as a society, accepted vertical content. So as filmmakers, we have to learn to adapt and if we don't adapt, we're going to left behind. Funny enough, the society is still okay with that, with Brian videos. So if you go to their website, people are absolutely okay turning the phone, but if it's on TikTok, instagram, facebook, whatever, people don't want to. People don't want to turn their phone around. Um, but at the end of the day, like again, you're good, you're, you're, you're tapping the market instead of just being that. That Dick filmmaker I was a few years ago saying I know, not for me, then you're losing all that business, right.

Ben Mangum: 33:53

That's crazy. Yeah, so that's funny.

Vipul Bindra: 33:55

I mean, it's not crazy, but it You're here to make money, your business, you have to go where what the market wants to pay you for I mean so no, that's very smart on your side.

Ben Mangum: 34:10

I enjoy the brand videos, though I like doing the longer format stuff. So I've kind of, when you start having several clients who are doing short form, I think it's all mindset, but sometimes I get burnt out on reels.

Vipul Bindra: 34:23

I'm like.

Ben Mangum: 34:24

This is not but then, sometimes when you do the brand videos you're like oh, that felt really good. Whether you're interviewing them or you can. You're kind of more proud of the final piece. It's more of a portfolio piece.

Vipul Bindra: 34:36

It's very impactful to them overall, because I find, and tell me this so you're doing reels, but the reels have a very short life. Yeah, so you know a day or two, maybe, I don't know, a week, but they're gone, you know there's no uh, very few people are scrolling back um, you know, and looking at old content nowadays, so so they don't have the life like a brand video would no, not at all.

Ben Mangum: 35:00

and I I want to get back to pitching more brand videos because I was thinking like, okay, I'm just doing these Instagram ads, like people aren't going to their website unless they're coming from Google or whatever. But then I kind of realized I'm like, okay, we can make a brand video, then just pin it to their Instagram or you know what I'm saying, so I'm like cause it, it does make sense it, it does make sense. There's more work, it's more cost on their end.

Vipul Bindra: 35:24

But, like I, think it's worth it. Yeah, if it's the right business, you know. So let's say the meeting's gone great, the, the. The content is what they want. They want the um, you know, the vertical videos or whatever the ads that you're selling them. What's the package that you're typically trying to make for them and how do you present the cost?

Ben Mangum: 35:40

so the deliverables have changed. I keep doing that little australian show.

Vipul Bindra: 35:45

It's just me thinking so, yeah, what are the deliverables and how many? To me that's very important, I know it's gone less and less and less for the same price. That's how it needs to be.

Ben Mangum: 35:55

Yeah, so at first I was doing like 30 videos plus teaching them the ads for 8K which is, I think, a really good price.

Vipul Bindra: 36:06

Yeah, no, very good price. 30 videos, yeah, yeah. And then I was like oh, this is a lot.

Ben Mangum: 36:09

So then I did 24, and now I'm pitching 18,. I think yeah, honestly, sometimes I'm like you just get a gut feeling.

Vipul Bindra: 36:19

You're like dude, I'm doing less video, so you're playing with the numbers still.

Ben Mangum: 36:23

yeah, it's still three months of content.

Vipul Bindra: 36:24

Yeah, so it's just less videos per month, yes, uh yeah, so so how do you come up to the number? Six is the perfect number for a month, right now at least, because you know I'm guessing that's how you get to 18 yeah, actually now I'm thinking about it, I mostly do eight videos a month.

Ben Mangum: 36:41

Okay, that's what I'm at.

Vipul Bindra: 36:42

Because it's twice a week. It kind of sounds nice. So 24, yeah.

Ben Mangum: 36:46

Yeah, you can easily do six a month. It doesn't matter.

Vipul Bindra: 36:49

Yeah, I mean the end day, it's the value of the content. Okay, so let's say sure, let's stick with that one for now. So two twice a week.

Ben Mangum: 37:06

Oh my yeah, oh my bad, go ahead, no, no, go ahead. No. I was gonna say like I'm even down to talk to you of just like advice from you of how I can adjust my offer, because some I go back and forth all the time. I guess it's the problem of overthinking of what's working or how you want to structure stuff and so no, and I'm happy to you know tangent there.

Vipul Bindra: 37:16

But personally, to be real, uh, that's why I'm talking to you I don't sell that much vertical content when I do okay, I'm trying to sell.

Ben Mangum: 37:21

I need to stop acting like this and act like no, yeah, yeah, you, you're no, y'all, no, you're doing better than me and vertical.

Vipul Bindra: 37:27

But now we do sell vertical. I've actually have so funny enough, I say I don't. I've sold it since long, long ago, before I was production company, because social media has been around a long time. I remember at one point it was square videos because that's what was popular on facebook, but the so yeah, so we've always uh, I say that you know, like, I don't like vertical, but we've done at different aspect ratios all the time yeah, um, but the um, the way I sell packages is all encompassing, meaning I want to do a brand video, a couple testimonials, then we'll throw hey, we'll give you a few ads to run on social media, so so it's always part of a bigger package.

Vipul Bindra: 38:03

I'm not just selling, and if you want to talk about disaster, that was when I did try to sell only vertical content. You know about that. A couple of years ago I did try to pivot into a separate part of my business, oh, like cheap editing or something.

Vipul Bindra: 38:18

No social edge is what I called it. Yeah, yeah, no social edge is what I called it, where we were going to try and, uh, just pitch vertical content. It didn't go well for me and I just realized I've marketed myself so much as the the filmmaker guy they talk about me in, which is good. I mean, hey, I'm proud of it. But the businesses at least I work to talk to me as the premium, better quality good choice, which I think again, my prices are too low, but still that's what they consider me.

Vipul Bindra: 38:42

Then I found that when I was pitching them this, you know, a whole month of content for a couple thousand bucks.

Ben Mangum: 38:48

They didn't want it because they were like, so that's what I'm saying.

Vipul Bindra: 38:50

I was like dude, I will make you one video for five grand or I will make you a whole month of content for two thousand dollars. Which one do you want? And they were like, oh, we want the one. So it was like oh, so I am not the guy they want to come to for cheap content, which is fine Cause, remember, I wasn't even going to be the man making it.

Ben Mangum: 39:08

The only way financially I could work it was build a team, you know, and anyway point is yeah, I have not had some coincidences in there, like some variables that you just won't really really know, like maybe it's just how the client felt or just that client. So I mean, of course you could sell vertical client like your quality is amazing, so, but yeah, also it. Maybe there's a factor of reputation, but at the same time you need quality.

Vipul Bindra: 39:32

I think actually videos that are not that good quality do well on social media yeah, you really don't, because people are expecting. You know, uG like user-generated content that is made with iPhones.

Vipul Bindra: 39:44

So I think that type of videos do better. Yeah, like I was talking about, my research shows that you got to be louder and chilly and you know, high energy, basically, and fast-paced, moving, fast cuts completely opposite of what I would call high quality content. Where we're, you know, we're pacing ourselves. To me, uh, when I'm making a video, a pace like sometimes just a pause, is worth so much to create, tell that story. You can't do that on social media. Somebody's gonna just already go to the next thing, you know I don't know.

Ben Mangum: 40:16

Yeah, yeah, yes, similar and different. Yeah, no for sure. I mean it is interesting because, like, I don't think I agree with you, but I also I think there's, you don't have to yell because I swipe past those people. I think they're annoying, so like sometimes it's very nice when people are more calm or whatever that.

Vipul Bindra: 40:34

Maybe I guess you're the alternate choice, but I think those other people are making millions of dollars. Yeah, so it must work.

Ben Mangum: 40:40

Yeah, I mean no I'm not saying that what you're saying is it doesn't work, but I'm saying you don't have to do it one way, of course.

Vipul Bindra: 40:45

Yeah, you can do it the better way.

Ben Mangum: 40:48

Yeah, there's not one way to do it. Like one of my clients, Josh, like he's not high energy like that at all, he's like he has a country accent. He just kind of speaks a little. I mean he speaks normal.

Vipul Bindra: 40:59

But you know what I'm saying a little slower, I guess I feel like I'm making him sound. Oh my goodness, controversy already started here just uh what are you trying to say people who have a country accent talk slower, we do?

Ben Mangum: 41:09

yeah, I mean I feel like I have a little of one, but uh no, no no, my point is is that I mean he gets views too, so it's it's interesting um no, I mean no, I completely with you.

Vipul Bindra: 41:22

Like your strategies is incredible and uh, and I love that. What you're saying is is uh important that you don't have to be that noise, that that annoying person. You can do it better and still get sales, which is what I'm saying. You are succeeding doing something where you have to do these annoying things to find success and you're finding success, um, you know, doing it better is the way I would put it so but yeah, I debate.

Ben Mangum: 41:50

Going back to, um, what you were talking about. So, like last year, I think I only sold maybe about three projects that weren't just only vertical. Like I did a brand video, I did a, I think we did an faq and a testimonial and some reels and although they took longer, I you kind of feel good that it's like okay, those videos are gonna last for a long time. So I mean, that's what I used to only do, for the most part was like video business cards.

Vipul Bindra: 42:20

Yeah, I think that may be the next evolution right, doing both or at least offering them the option. Because, like we talked about in our meetup, the whole good, better, best strategy right. I'm very much a fan of because even in the beginning same thing I was like this is the offer right. Once you've built the offer, they get one option yes or no and I've slowly evolved to like no, there's good, better, best, because a it works human psychology but b you can genuinely then be surprised what people pick.

Vipul Bindra: 42:49

Obviously, most people are going to pick better, right. So essentially what you do is right for people don't know you would um, you know you'd be the high I would say low cost solution. Then you would pick the medium, which is the solution you want to sell. You know which would have which would be higher price but would have better content or better time spent on it, and then the best would be. Now here's your dream scenario that you want to sell them to, and most people obviously pick the better. But you'd be surprised how many people have picked the best. They're like no, we're the better, the better brand and we want best.

Vipul Bindra: 43:26

Now you're doing the value uh, it's rare. But now you're doing the project how you would love to do it, right, but you didn't think the client had the money to do it. And are there times where you're expecting to do better and then they go no, we'll just take the, the less option, but that's better, because most likely they would have said no to your regular offer. So maybe that could be the next evolution for you, where I do it.

Ben Mangum: 43:42

Yeah, I do that. Okay, so you already do that for sure. Yeah, yeah. So I mean I think I lost a ton of deals not doing that when I first started. I would just do like. I mean, this is me like. First, starting, or whatever you're like yeah, I do a video business card for like 2500 and like yep, that's it, which like some people said yeah, but some people yeah, you got to like make it look sexy. Yeah, exactly, I mean, hey, it works, it does.

Vipul Bindra: 44:06

Yeah, but so and so and again. I think people hyper focus on this. The typical a hundred thousand dollars that you got to make in central Florida. I feel like that's nothing, but also it's overhyped. But now you're past that club. Right, you're beyond, you're very successful, you had a great year. How does that feel? Is that any different? Like I think it's overplayed to make over six figures, but what's your opinion on that part? Like the creators over-focus on it, or what?

Ben Mangum: 44:38

I mean I balance being grateful and then also like I don't feel that successful yet at all. Uh, because I feel like there's a lot of well.

Vipul Bindra: 44:44

I mean I'll be honest, like I went from, like last year I did 104 and then this year I did 140, so it's really not I'm grateful, but it's not like oh, it sounds like. Yeah, you know, your life didn't change overnight.

Ben Mangum: 44:56

You're telling me not at all, and I also spent more money unfortunately so I need to get better about my finances.

Ben Mangum: 45:04

So I mean, I guess I just want to be honest with people, cause, like, some people may be starting out like, oh, that's amazing and it's like, yeah, I am grateful of where I pay my bills, doing video full time, which is dope, um, but I also feel like I have so much more to grow, or yeah, I guess that never ends, but, um, no, it was, it was cool. I mean, I guess, if you don't mind, I'll share my whole evolution, not my whole story.

Vipul Bindra: 45:29

But just like, absolutely like, I love numbers go ahead.

Ben Mangum: 45:33

Um, and it's embarrassing for me to say, but I think it's cool for people just starting out maybe yeah like covid happened. I got laid off. I was trying to do video full-time, like end of 2019, but it was part-time and it wasn't. I don't know I was barely doing it. And then I bought excuse me, I got laid off from covid and then so I had unemployment money so I'm like, okay, at least I know I can like pay my rent yeah, I guess and so I was like, screw it, I'm gonna start the business up, I'm gonna join networking I'm gonna do it um, and so that year I only made 18 000.

Ben Mangum: 46:14

Wow it was bad.

Vipul Bindra: 46:15

I mean, of course.

Ben Mangum: 46:16

I mean that's how a lot of time first years are, so, but yeah, and so and my wife was also you know, she was my girlfriend at the time like she was also paying quite a bit of the bills too, like she was understanding. Like, hey, you're just starting out like you know you gotta.

Vipul Bindra: 46:29

It takes time to get clients shout out to significant others man, you couldn't do this without a significant other who understands what it takes to be an entrepreneur, but yeah, yeah, no, she's always been supportive too.

Ben Mangum: 46:39

I think I can't imagine being with somebody who, like, would talk shit about you starting a business like you still haven't landed a client yet.

Vipul Bindra: 46:45

It's like can you imagine do that again. But no, absolutely. Yeah. You're already going through so much shit. You're already working long hours. You don't need somebody nagging you at the end day. You want a supportive partner. That's very important, yeah and dude.

Ben Mangum: 47:02

I mean I. I mean I think it was a combination of things. My videos weren't that good. That was the reality. And then two just like not knowing how to sell and then not knowing how to market and I think when you're starting out at least for me, like I didn't have that much confidence either I'm like oh, I'm like trying to make videos for these business owners, like you know you know you're putting them up on a pedestal.

Ben Mangum: 47:20

But once you get to a certain level it's like you're almost like you need to get your shit together.

Vipul Bindra: 47:25

Yeah, exactly.

Ben Mangum: 47:26

That's kind of how it feels, but uh, yeah, my second year I only did 32,000.

Ben Mangum: 47:31

It was bad still no but you job at an ad agency, my in 2022 and my salary was 75 which I was like okay, cool, like nice, you know I was making videos for them basically and and so I think I did a ton of videos during that time that I just got more confident with my skills. So then when I went back full-time 2023, I did 104. So, like my point, I guess my moral of the story is like when I was doing 1832, I looked at a hundred thousand, like it was this huge thing, like oh my God, and then I think just naturally I did it that fourth or whatever. Yeah, when I went back and did a hundred last year or 2023,.

Ben Mangum: 48:15

Um, I did was like, oh, that's not that crazy, like it was cool, I'm grateful, but like, and then this year I feel like I could have done so much more.

Vipul Bindra: 48:24

A lot of times I find myself being very lazy, but that's just how we are. We're critical of each other, of ourselves, but no, that's an incredible journey. I remember when you had come back full time after the ad agency and I couldn't understand it. But now I get it. See, the thing is, if you're not confident, it is better to go work for someone and actually get the skills up, or at least your confidence up, because here's the truth you're helping somebody in their business, or scale their business, or even if they're just their marketing department, you're doing their branding. And if you don't want to embarrass yourself and get yourself blacklisted, right um, and then the biggest thing I tell people is uh, don't play around with somebody else's money, and and the easiest thing in this business is you don't need to.

Vipul Bindra: 49:13

the advice that I give people is you don't need to own anything, you don't need to invest anything or know anything as long as, as long as you're genuinely interested and genuinely want to do something. Just look people around in the area, like Ben, who are already doing what you want to do, and I'm pretty sure tell me if I'm wrong if somebody hits you up and said hey, ben, I'm interested in what you're doing, I would love to get a cup of coffee, what would your answer be? Yeah, for sure. Exactly right, so you surround yourself with people, want to be. Obviously don't take advantage of them, but I'm pretty sure somebody came and said look, uh, tell me I used to do it.

Vipul Bindra: 49:47

Yeah, exactly, and I'm saying and tell me if it's different. There's two types of people. One would just hook you up, hey, I'll come for free work. Usually you'll say no right, if somebody you've never met, never had a coffee, just straight up like, hey, want to learn, I'll just come to your shoot. Yeah right, you're not bringing them on. But if they made an effort they were like, hey, here's coffee. They met you a couple of times. Now you know the person.

Ben Mangum: 50:09

They're not going to fuck up your set.

Vipul Bindra: 50:16

I'm pretty sure you'll be inclined to take up them off or you me free. Slowly you could upgrade, maybe even pay them a little, and that's how you learn way, way better and faster. Until you're confident, then you go. Okay, ben, now I'm gonna hire you right, and to me that's just how it works.

Ben Mangum: 50:30

I think that's the best thing someone can do. I wish I did that 10 times, 100 times more, when I, in those first two years where I was struggling like I was too much. I mean it is what, like you know, I was trying to run my business, or you're trying to network, and which, like I'm glad I did, but like I remember, I went on. Uh, you may know him, kyle Loftus. He's here in Orlando and I was familiar yeah.

Ben Mangum: 50:52

Yeah, you, you may have seen him, but and, um, I just remember, like I followed him on Instagram or something and I saw that he was in Orlando and then I think it just offered to be a PA or something like that. I didn't ask for money and yeah, I was on there. I was like, oh, this is dope Like for me personally. It basically just validated, like, oh, this is the same thing I'm doing, it's still the same three point lighting setup. They just have better gear than me.

Ben Mangum: 51:19

Or you know it's just a fancier camera, and I saw how he was talking to the client. I'm like, okay, I do that same thing and it just gave me a lot of validation of like you're on the right path. You just need to keep leveling up, keep going, and I wish I did that way sooner to anybody who's doing it and, uh, I would have just learned so much faster being like a PA or just cause I would do.

Ben Mangum: 51:41

There's been a few like client stories where I'm trying to set up equipment I didn't know how to set it up.

Vipul Bindra: 51:47

It's so embarrassing. Oh wow, can you hear one of those? You don't have to tell us the name of the client, but yeah, dude, my first free gig um.

Ben Mangum: 52:02

I had one of those shitty light boxes where you can't even adjust the intensity. It's just one that you like flip on like an Amazon light and like it has I mean just like any softbox it has a little metal prongs.

Vipul Bindra: 52:09

Yeah, you have to. And, dude, I could not get it like through the thing.

Ben Mangum: 52:13

And I'm messing with it for like literally 20 minutes and we're like almost ready to shoot, and it was just so. Also, my I used to like ask my wife to come help me out on set, like she was there, and she makes fun of me sometimes, like yeah, you remember when you yeah so it wasn't a huge deal. But I just remember looking back like, yeah, that's kind of an example, nothing bad happened it was good experience, but like that's an example where you can kind of like ruin your reputation almost like if you do a bad job when you're first starting out.

Vipul Bindra: 52:44

So like I was kind of the opposite, where I had been making for a few years videos for a few years, but like I still sucked, like I didn't know lighting, I was kind of just doing it or whatever, but I started selling clients, like because I joined that, the how to sell facebook, yeah, look at that yeah, which I think that's how we initially met, right, yeah, I'm pretty sure I discovered you in that group and then, um, uh, when I was moving back to south as an orlando, left a few years for alabama, then came back, and when I did I was looking up who was local and I think you came nice, yeah, yeah.

Ben Mangum: 53:16

No, I just think there's a lot of people who get really good at filming but they still don't have the confidence to sell. But I was kind of doing the opposite. Looking back, my videos sucked, but I was still trying to sell. Yeah, I mean, that's what matters.

Vipul Bindra: 53:29

Look, I'm telling you, like I said, I'm a filmmaker first, personally, I think then salesperson, but here's the truth Filmmakers are dime a dozen. Good salespeople are rare. So if you're going to learn any skill, yes, ideally you should know both. You should be a good filmmaker and you should be good at selling, because even if you're hiring other people, you need to be able to judge them. If you don't know what you're looking for, then you wouldn't have a good crew.

Vipul Bindra: 53:54

But coming back to it, I think you're far better off listening to, like, what you told about ad strategy, getting clients running meetings. Because guess what, if you have, let's say, zero knowledge of video production and all you have to do is go out and hire people who are good at it? Right, a lot of people forget that. Yeah, a lot of people don't think about that. Like, video production is a collaborative thing. Nobody can be good at it.

Vipul Bindra: 54:18

And even video, a lot of people think it's a one-person job. You know, lighting is somebody else's job, sound is somebody else's job, camera is somebody's job. You know these are 50 jobs that one person is trying to accomplish together. You're not going to be good at it. It doesn't matter how good you are. You could be master of one, but not everything. So at some point, especially if you're trying to scale to hire videos, you have to collaborate with others. So you're better off just hiring somebody and getting good at sales until you're confident in your skills. Now you've seen them do 10 times and you're like okay, I know, I can do it.

Vipul Bindra: 55:03

Or you know like, and then that's okay, if you want to nick some crew, make some extra profit, but at the end of the day, I don't know why people get so gung-ho about not hiring professionals and just doing everything themselves, because people will gladly pay you five grand. And now you're fiddling with, like you said, lights. Then you know, rather, you would have paid someone a couple thousand dollars to do it and you would have still made three grand profit and look like a champion.

Ben Mangum: 55:18

Right, I don't think that's a bad strategy. I wish I did that way sooner, did I was? I mean, really it was because I was selling low budget videos so I'm like I need all of this money. That was kind of the real and I was full time. So, yeah, there's a lot of things I would have done differently, but once I hired somebody, like good, they had a lot of equipment it was just everything was better.

Ben Mangum: 55:40

Yeah, you get cool bts exactly, plus you know you're able to focus on what matters most, which is the client right, exactly because you should be on your shoot focus, because that's what I do on my shoots.

Vipul Bindra: 55:50

If I'm touching equipment, obviously I'll help move stuff. Then something's going wrong, because I should be focused on the client yeah and running the set. I shouldn't be, and it's not that I don't love to. Obviously part of me wants to like set up every light, set up every camera, change every little setting. But the truth is I have to focus on running the whole set and make sure, like you said, the shoot goes smoothly and the client is happy.

Vipul Bindra: 56:12

That is the most important thing, and I can't do that if I'm going to try and be the technician. So I'm sure now, when you started bringing people in, your clients are happier right yeah, I'd say so.

Ben Mangum: 56:23

I think it's just overall a more fun time there's more people like. If you have people on set that you gel with, you know it's a better quality video. Most of the time I mean in my experience you know um yeah, you're less stressed and you're more focused on the client maybe I it kind of made me better at like planning or like better at like communicating with the client maybe I it kind of made me better at like planning or like better at like communicating with the client because you're not worried about lighting for the

Vipul Bindra: 56:46

most part, like you know, you check the camera to make sure it looks good but yeah, and I'm sure your skills as a, as a technical person or as a creative person uh, filmmaking side have improved too. Right, just having other people, because you're now learning from many different. Yeah and yeah, and you've got to communicate better.

Ben Mangum: 57:01

And I think it makes you more decisive too. That was one thing like looking back. I'm like man, I was so indecisive and not confident as a director, and that's really important. It's one thing to you know you need to get open to feedback and you're open-minded, but at the same time, get more clear on your vision and what you want it to look like, and stuff like that. I think that just makes for a better set and better end result. So, yeah, I would. I would have hired people a lot sooner on set, most definitely I completely agree.

Vipul Bindra: 57:31

And that was, uh, my strategy day one. I had first shoot as a production company, but I'd done enough freelance to kind of learn from it. So, uh, first thing I literally was like I gotta, I gotta have bts, I gotta have assistance.

Ben Mangum: 57:44

I gotta have a producer.

Vipul Bindra: 57:46

I had julie, you know. She was my producer and at that time she was not that much interested in video production. Because I was like no, no, no, you couldn't come. This is your script, this is you're gonna keep us, you know, in line and everything, and she did great. But the point is like we had a full crew, like it wasn't just me. I was like that was my thing from day one. I'm a production company. It's a company.

Vipul Bindra: 58:04

It's not me and I feel like that kind of helped me, yeah, and helped me propel, but it helped me. First day I realized I was so focused on the client and the experience I would have never been able to do had I not had that crew with me. Because because I was able to literally be like, hey, bring the soft box and, you know, set the slider up, can you put this chair in this angle, whatever, like there was people helping do everything and I was able to focus on then directing. And I know for a fact, had I been like messing with every little thing, the product wouldn't have been as good.

Vipul Bindra: 58:36

And obviously I made tons and tons of money from that first shoot because I was able to get more work out of that and I don't think it would have happened had I not done that.

Ben Mangum: 58:48

I need to do that way better I think you're doing great.

Vipul Bindra: 58:50

But I mean to be real, coming back to your side, what you're doing. Unless you're doing your back to your brand stories or testimonials or other stuff, I don't think vertical content needs a crew.

Ben Mangum: 59:00

Typically yeah, testimonials or other stuff. I don't think vertical content needs a crew. I typically yeah, I'd say maybe 70, maybe even 80 of the time I don't have help, but you don't need it for vertical content. Yeah, I'm just outside, either handheld with a lav mic, or maybe I have a gimbal.

Vipul Bindra: 59:15

That's the most. Yeah, now I see that would be changing if you're doing back to like your brand story or stuff like that right.

Ben Mangum: 59:22

Anytime I did that, I always hired it honestly. A lot of times I just hire one person. I'd hire the dp, and then I would just be helping setting up lights too for a con.

Vipul Bindra: 59:31

You know talking head if that's what you're doing, yeah, it's fine, yeah yeah, that was all, all interviews and stuff like that, or I'd hire a second person to corporate video is so wide scale like I've been on sets where we're doing talking head and it's just me plus whoever's like directing, producing, for example, if I'm the dp and I set up everything. And then I've been on sets where we're doing the same thing talking head but we have like 15 crew, we have alexas and cook lenses and I've set up like book lights and so much. Set design. Even at a set design point is like it can go uh, from really high scale, but at the end day you're just doing a talking head, it's just the scale is so wide it's crazy.

Vipul Bindra: 1:00:13

Yeah, but that's awesome. You've been on any large sets yet or no.

Ben Mangum: 1:00:16

No, I would love to, just to experience it. For what's?

Vipul Bindra: 1:00:19

crazy for me is technically I've hired you, but I was not there. That annoys me, because I've been wanting to work with you for years and I technically did bring you in at least once, I was lucky enough. And then I was somewhere. I don't know where I was, I was Nashville or somewhere I was traveling. I know for a fact I was not in town and so that kind of sucked sucked so you've technically been on my set without me being there.

Ben Mangum: 1:00:42

How was that experience? That was cool. That was a large set for me, but there was maybe eight people, yeah, six to eight people at least.

Vipul Bindra: 1:00:46

That was a big set, and I wasn't even there, that's it was annoying because I had a, I had you on and I think I kind of let you even lead because I was like I knew you had experience with interviews and stuff. So I was like, hey, if you're doing any interviews, feel free to ask questions or whatever. Yeah, because at the end day you know it's not scripted again, it's just basic questions yeah um, and I knew you had done enough, uh brand videos or whatever to know, what to do about it uh well, the cool part.

Ben Mangum: 1:01:11

The cool part was that I've worked with emmanuel, I don't know maybe five times and he was the dp, so it was honestly very just collaborative. It wasn't even almost like I was running it. If that makes sense, I'm pretty sure I had a producer.

Vipul Bindra: 1:01:22

I had Julie there producing too.

Ben Mangum: 1:01:23

So I think you had a good crew with you, and then other people too.

Vipul Bindra: 1:01:26

They were all like. Everyone had worked before. So, like I said, the only unfortunate part is I wasn't there.

Ben Mangum: 1:01:33

But I think it went smooth right.

Vipul Bindra: 1:01:35

Yeah, for sure. I hope you learned something out of it.

Ben Mangum: 1:01:37

I don't know what, because like I wasn't there, I mean, I learned that the fx6s look very nice yes, they do, I learned that this big light source looks very nice yes, it does there you go um?

Vipul Bindra: 1:01:52

no, it was cool, I just no the thing with light is, you know, I was chilling, I was just asking people questions to be honest, yeah, I mean, hey, I'm glad you got paid to do that. Yeah, no, uh, to be honest, I did learn, sorry, I did learn you were.

Ben Mangum: 1:02:08

I'm like wow, he's very organized, not only just the planning, the pre-production, but then also even just like the cart, like on the day of the shoot I was like, oh, this is, this is the next level, and funny enough, like I wasn't even there, uh, but but that's my thing, you know to.

Vipul Bindra: 1:02:24

To be real, like, yeah, if I had to be call myself anything, I would be say pre-production king, because the truth is, um, you have to plan everything. That's what video is. Most of the work is in pre-production and I think that's what most people miss. I had planned funny enough, like I spent very little time on this shoot, but I still had planned, um, where everyone was going to be, where the interview is going to be, what the lighting set it was going to be, what the cameras were going to be, and and to be real, it was my typical setup. But that that was when you guys showed up and I wasn't even there.

Vipul Bindra: 1:02:54

99 of the time, you guys can just go and like somebody you haven't you haven't even been on that set. At least Emmanuel had looked at the location. Um, you can just go and be, be creative and be successful instead of figuring things out. And, uh, I think the only thing that happened that I got one video call about something from either you or Emmanuel, I don't remember, but I think you guys did the whole thing without me, my input, and I think it went great. Like I, the client said that was the best video they'd ever seen of their company so that I mean, I don't know what else to say, you know?

Ben Mangum: 1:03:26

and I was so proud of it I'm like hey, I'm making money.

Vipul Bindra: 1:03:28

I'm not even there you know that's dope.

Ben Mangum: 1:03:30

It doesn't get any better than that right yeah, and that's a lot of pressure, like when you're working with a big company and you got a lot of people. You're not there, like I haven't done that.

Vipul Bindra: 1:03:38

That's dope yeah, it's really cool no, I need to get way.

Ben Mangum: 1:03:41

I mean, I'm just on this podcast and I need to get, like benja but uh I need to um, I do honestly. I do need to plan better. I do plan like for example, you're doing a brand shoot, like you're planning out the interview topics sometimes the night before, but um, chat.

Vipul Bindra: 1:03:59

Gpt is your friend nowadays are you using? That for the social content are you doing on the fly like off the cuff?

Ben Mangum: 1:04:05

I still do chat gbt quite a bit. But so my main client, josh, he does roofing. I don't really plan anything anymore, unless for the short form at least, because I mean I've been working with him maybe nine months, maybe I don't know something like that and like at a certain point you kind of run out of like roofing topics. So like most of the time we show up he's going to a job, he's doing an estimate or we're going to a project and like he kind of just talks about what's going on. That's kind of like the vlog, kind of vlog style, just documenting, and that works for him, because he doesn't like the scripted stuff.

Ben Mangum: 1:04:42

My point is, yes, I do use chat gbt, but sometimes some of my clients I don't. Okay, um, I think it's really good for video topics, like if you educate it a lot, you give it a lot of information, but the scripts can be good too. But at the same time you need to make sure you go through and maybe use your own words or just I don't know, sometimes it's still yeah, it's, it's not what I find is is it's great for narrowing down things, as in the brain storming part of it, because that saves you so much time.

Vipul Bindra: 1:05:13

Now I don't. I don't ever use final, so, like in the past, uh, scripted videos. I've had to like, hire writers and be like hey, can you write this from?

Vipul Bindra: 1:05:20

scratch and it's annoying because you know they don't know your vision. Now you're explaining versus now I love is I can. Plus, I love how the you have to make chat gpd work I have to go and the way I at least make it work. I don't know if it's right, I'm like okay, so you're a writer for bender productions, this is the assignment that you've been given. This is the thing, and I'll literally feed it, like the whole thing, and I say it doesn't take but 30 seconds. But you know I'm typing all this and then I enter and it's so funny it'll generally like narrow down to I don't know, here's 30 concepts and I'll go okay, uh, number seven and number 10 work great, rest are trash.

Vipul Bindra: 1:05:54

can you work more and find me more like that? And then that's basically. Um, it does. But what's amazing is all this took me 30 seconds, so it's insane. 30 seconds later, I have actual concepts that I like, and now when I go to a writer, I'm like okay, here's your concepts that I need you to work. So now I brought their work from, let's say, I don't know, four days, five days, to like one day, because now all they have to do is the brainstorming, the hardest part is reduced.

Vipul Bindra: 1:06:18

So I don, the hardest part is reduced. So I don't think it replaces writers, like you said. The content it produces is still, I think, not that good, but it can narrow, at least for me, the concepts of brainstorming. Like funny enough for this podcast. I was like I gotta start a podcast, but this isn't paying me, I don't have time. So I was like what should I name the podcast?

Vipul Bindra: 1:06:34

give me names oh, yeah, I was like oh, I like these two, can you give me more like that? And then that's how I ended up picking a name, because I'm like whatever, who cares? I mean it's not that big of a deal, but I spent 30 seconds on it.

Ben Mangum: 1:06:44

I mean that's like my, my effort with chat gpd yeah, like you said, the brainstorming part takes a lot of time and just like starting and that it can help you save so much mental energy just to like it's already writing stuff, so fast oh okay, boom, I forgot about that.

Vipul Bindra: 1:06:59

I didn't think about that, so I do use it plus I've been using this, so I finally upgraded my mac from m1 max to m4, m4 max, uh, macbook or whatever, and what I love is now it's kind of integrated. So I love I used to have to in the past go to my emails, copy paste, chat, gpd, bring it back. Now you can literally right click and say make it more professional, make it more friendly, and so it can essentially rewrite that uh, I don't know if have you seen that like that's so cool, so like you can do that, I do use it for you, yeah but it's like straight in the apple laptop.

Vipul Bindra: 1:07:30

Now I don't even have to go to chat gpd I haven't done that. Yeah, that's so cool because it's saving me again. That's 30 seconds. I don't even have to go anywhere anymore. I just go straight into the email and just hit rewrite or whatever and it'll just handle it. And that's incredible. Again, that's what I'm saying. I don't think it replaces writers, but it definitely helps us make the content faster and better.

Ben Mangum: 1:07:52

Absolutely yeah. Research or ideas yeah, I use it quite a bit.

Vipul Bindra: 1:07:58

That's awesome. So I want to and I know we're bouncing back, but I want to, and I know we're bouncing back. But I want to go back to your structure. So I know you said you do three months, eight grand whatever, 24 videos, whatever. How do you structure pricing? So do they have to pay you all up front, or are you splitting them in three months or three payments, or how do you go about the payment aspect of it?

Ben Mangum: 1:08:20

Yeah, so I'll either do payments so like if it's 8k, sometimes I'll do um four months at 2k, or but the content is only for three months, so you're giving them content before the the payment. Yeah, they're just doing payments, yeah okay, uh, I'm just, I just make it an easy like uh even even number.

Vipul Bindra: 1:08:41

Yeah, okay.

Ben Mangum: 1:08:42

Or like sometimes it's 6K or whatever.

Vipul Bindra: 1:08:44

So what do you use? Like you're just setting up some kind of invoice, Do you do automatic?

Ben Mangum: 1:08:47

payments. I do HoneyBook. Yeah, I do automatic payments, yep.

Vipul Bindra: 1:08:50

So they don't get to pick, like when the payment comes out? Is that true? No, Okay.

Ben Mangum: 1:08:55

So like, if it's on the 5th of January, it's going to come out the 5th of February. Dude, that changed the game. For me, at least me personally was like either retainer or automatic payments. Dude, because I remember last year, or even you know, those beginning years of, like, chasing down clients for invoices. They're like you know, sometimes that would be like your only client that month. You're like dude, I need this money Exactly and that would suck, suck you know you feel weird, you know just as terrible.

Ben Mangum: 1:09:24

And then automatic payments. That makes you sleep a lot better at night.

Vipul Bindra: 1:09:28

Have you had any fail yet? No so everything's going good, yeah everything's going good.

Ben Mangum: 1:09:34

Yeah, I don't need that. Juju, don't be talking about it.

Vipul Bindra: 1:09:38

Um hey, I, we were seeing what our filmmaker chad and somebody had payment issues. I was like, oh that seems like a nightmare. I haven't had that in a long time. I've had now, um funny enough. Again it's the low payment. I've only had one issue ever with payment, and that too, um, again, I I take 100 of the payment before I do anything.

Ben Mangum: 1:09:54

It's just what it is I need to do that, so I'll sometimes split it, like you said, but that's fine, then they still.

Vipul Bindra: 1:10:00

The other part needs to be paid before we come out to shoot.

Ben Mangum: 1:10:02

That's good. There is no payment after Dude I can't.

Vipul Bindra: 1:10:04

But I've had, like you know, my partners. I don't want to name them, but I only partner with some organizations and obviously that's where you're kind of coming a half out of my pocket. So they signed the contract and they were like, oh yeah, we'll. Uh, we don't have enough money right now. Can we pay you after this event or whatever? I'm like I don't care, you know it's half my money anyway. I'm not making any money on this, this is just a bonus thing. And then now, four months later, there's no payment. And then the next event is coming up and I'm like, uh, we're not gonna film, I can't schedule anyone, I can't pay editors and I pay all my crew either on the day off or before you know, when the shoots happen. Because, again, I want to be that type of producer who's not owing anyone anything. Plus, you want to come work with me. Point is, I can't do that when I haven't even received the payment.

Vipul Bindra: 1:10:52

I can't schedule people when I don't know how to pay them. But that's only one time. But either way, I didn't lose anything because the event hasn't happened. So I haven't lose anything because the event hasn't happened. So I haven't scheduled anyone. So there's no loss per se, but it is kind of annoying. So I can't imagine. If you've already done the work.

Ben Mangum: 1:11:08

How that would feel. Oh, that's happening, not getting paid. Yeah, yeah, that's happened to me a few times. I would dude. I have to start doing that. I actually have one project now this is kind of crazy to say so like I did a 50 deposit and normally I do 50 after it's delivered, I need to start doing on the day of the day before the shoot.

Vipul Bindra: 1:11:27

Yeah, before the shoot or two days before the show. How are you gonna set it up? I used to do that way 50 up front and then 50 at delivery. Thing is I don't want to, which I mean I've never had a client say I don't love the video, but I don't even want that risk where they go, I don't like the video but I don't even want that risk where they go.

Vipul Bindra: 1:11:42

I don't like the video that's happening to me. See, that's what I'm saying. I didn't even want see. My thing is I listen to other people and I say I don't want that. So now it's just that, and 50% upfront and 50% before the shoot. That's the only split option they get.

Ben Mangum: 1:11:58

And that too you, they, they agree to the budget, and then you explain that to them, or how would you do that? No, it's just in the agreement. So my proposal oh, so you don't even tell them on the call?

Vipul Bindra: 1:12:09

Well, no, no, I can't. If they're like, I'm like, hey, okay, so the payment is just, uh, at the time of contract signing, or you have the option to split it.

Ben Mangum: 1:12:22

You can do 50, 50 if you want to.

Vipul Bindra: 1:12:23

That's an option, and but I would only offer it for uh, you know, if they bring it up, yeah, no, no. Or if it's a decent amount, if it's like 20 grand, I want to offer it to a small business. It depends. Funny enough. Clients who have money never question it, my biggest clients 30 grand invoice paid immediately. I'm telling you, the bigger the clients get, the at least for me I don't want to say all big clients, but the payments come out much easier you I've literally had.

Vipul Bindra: 1:12:43

Now I've had that happen where it's like, hey, I've got a 15 grand invoice spending and they haven't even opened it. Thank goodness I can track in my proposal software when they're opening it. Um, so all I've had to do, funny enough, I'm like, hey, uh, I gotta buy plane tickets. What's going on? And the client goes oh, sorry, didn't even look at it and then before I can respond to that message, paid screenshot. So it's not that they weren't wanting to pay, they just didn't look at it because they're busy. It's always the 10 and under clients and they're like can we split it? We can't afford it, and that's okay because they're small businesses. I need to up my prices, man, yeah, but yeah, but remember, there's not that much profit. That's my other side of it. I know people talk to me and they're like has somebody who's done wide scale of, I would say, renting from yourself and maybe a couple of people, right, so you can make, and maybe an editor, you can make 50, 60% profit, if not more. How much do you want?

Vipul Bindra: 1:13:50

to do yourself, you edit yourself, you can make that, but anything gets bigger. You start to bring crews in and you start to bring better equipment in, do you? Have to that's very good to see and that's a very good topic, though I don't think you'll get repeat clients, because here's the truth. Let's say you charge someone 15K, right?

Ben Mangum: 1:14:07

Okay, and you still use the same.

Vipul Bindra: 1:14:09

For one video, or two videos, let's say, because that sounds like a realistic package.

Vipul Bindra: 1:14:17

We'll make you two videos,500 a video. Now remember, you're charging them $7,500 per video, plus you're shooting them both on the same day and then you go and you bring the same equipment you would have for that 3,500 video that we were just talking about and the same assistance. Are they getting the value? Or you're making more money? Because then guess what they'll do? They'll talk to their buddy on the golf course who'll say, oh, we hired bindra and he brought big lights and big setups and the video looked nicer and there was a bigger crew and he paid more attention to us because he could, because you know he had a bigger crew and and so that's very good way in my opinion and again, it's not just me, it's a lot of bigger shoots, the minimum, like I I see what you're saying, I haven't done that, but like what do you think's the See to me?

Ben Mangum: 1:15:07

I feel like, if it's not some crazy commercial, you know you can, you're the director, you have a DP, you have a PA, maybe a grip yeah and a BTS if you want Sure, grip yeah and a bts if you want sure and you think that's. Is that what you consider? Having a bigger crew for a bigger project, or is that a small crew to you?

Vipul Bindra: 1:15:27

and that's what I'm saying. It depends on the scalability and the client's expectations. So, um, that's what I'm trying to say. It's the budget right, their budget and reflects the quality. They're not just paying you 15 grand because they want to and you can get away with it. That's what the the thing is now.

Vipul Bindra: 1:15:43

Yes, some people do value-based pricing yeah and, yes, you can charge 15 grand for your video because you're making the millions of dollars. That's a completely different sales strategy. I'm just going by video production. Okay, what we do. You charge them 15 grand and then give them a video that somebody else can make for 1500 to 2000. You're doing them disservice. You're doing them disservice and it's a very good way, in my opinion, not to get hired again personally, because here's the other side of it. Now, the scalability depends on the budget. Now, if they say I want a talking head, right, and they're a large national brand, they know what the costs are. They're not stupid.

Vipul Bindra: 1:16:17

Oh okay, so for 50 grand they expect.

Ben Mangum: 1:16:19

It kind of depends on the client, yeah exactly.

Vipul Bindra: 1:16:21

So I'm already budgeting in that we're going to have to rent two Alexa Mini LFs, two Signature Primes, maybe a set of Signature Primes. I'm going to have to have DPs that can handle that equipment.

Ben Mangum: 1:16:32

Not everyone can operate that. Do they talk to you about that stuff, though it depends on? The agency is expecting you to have more gear, more people.

Vipul Bindra: 1:16:46

No for that budget so again, uh, some will stay direct. So some come with full creative like, hey, this is the shot deck, this is this you're just directing or producing it. Here's, uh, the equipment requirements or whatever. Or we want you to come up with one one or the other. But some are still like the clients where they're like this is what we want done. But as long as you have prior relationship, they let you only, then not, but they let you just be in charge of it. But what I'm saying is that is the expectation. If I showed up with um sony fx6 on that big of a shoot, not, you know, it ain't gonna work. Now they do have sometimes lower budget shoots.

Ben Mangum: 1:17:21

I've had that happen.

Vipul Bindra: 1:17:22

We're like, okay, uh, we're going to do a three camera interview. This xyz celebrity is coming to town, right, you're going to do that and the budget is, I don't know, eight grand. Then, yes, we're going to still use fx6s. That's for the same agency yeah the budget reflects the people. Cost is always higher than the equipment costs.

Ben Mangum: 1:17:40

So in that scenario, with an agency there, it's like expected for you to have, for example, the Alexas compared to the FX6s, like they understand.

Vipul Bindra: 1:17:51

That's at least what the demand is, but that's why the budget is higher.

Ben Mangum: 1:17:54

I don't think they're really nearly paying you money. Why would they? They want to keep all of it. So, okay, how about different scenario? Let's say uh, you know, for my package I did a brand video faq and some testimonials. I think I did an ad. Whatever, it doesn't matter, yeah. But let's say I charged 7500 and that they didn't ask about camera equipment it was just business at that level wouldn't care. Yes, and so let's just say I decided to charge $15,000 for a brand video and a testimonial video.

Vipul Bindra: 1:18:26

Yeah.

Ben Mangum: 1:18:26

Maybe we do an ad.

Vipul Bindra: 1:18:27

It still doesn't matter yeah.

Ben Mangum: 1:18:30

Can I not just hire FX6s?

Vipul Bindra: 1:18:33

You know a DP that has the FX6 and it doesn't Exactly. I mean, again, you can do anything. So it's kind of two different scenarios, right. Yeah, but here's the two ways to do it.

Ben Mangum: 1:18:40

But that's more profitable. Is what I'm trying to say?

Vipul Bindra: 1:18:42

Yes, so there you go. There's two ways to do it. One is you just make more profit. You do the exact same thing you would have for $15,000 and you just put the extra $75,000 in your pocket. Can you absolutely do that? Absolutely. If the client will come back to you and you give them a product that's worth 15k, why wouldn't they, why wouldn't you do that? Absolutely? You have to understand to that client 15 grand is a lot of money, yeah, right, for a lot of they want. If they're paying you 15 grand, they're expecting 15 grand of value, right, yeah, the way they care about is they're wanting sales. And then they want the video to look at a certain quality. You know, on par of whatever. The quality is what I'm saying, what my thing is and and maybe again, this is this, is this, which is great. I'm glad we're having this conversation.

Vipul Bindra: 1:19:32

People typically who do videos at this point don't, don't even. That's, not even a point. That's why you're charging that much. You're charging because that's what it costs to make it. Right, my costs are. I'm already initially going. Here's the production fee, right, that's what the company makes. The rest is all expenses. Now I can make some more money because if I'm directing it or I'm the DP, I can take that day rate for myself, or sometimes I'm not, because if I'm on another project I want to hire somebody else, then that goes to them. But I could make more money now by, you know, taking some of the roles. But the the money is, this is for equipment, this is for people. Now I have a lot of equipment so I can pull some of the rental into bender productions too. But sometimes we don't have a certain which I mean rare but bigger equipment, like I used to have alexis, but I don't anymore because it wasn't worth.

Vipul Bindra: 1:20:18

I'd rather rent them. The point I'm trying to say is, then, that cost is going to a rental company or to a.

Vipul Bindra: 1:20:24

DP I prefer, like you, I prefer a DP who has their own Alexa. That way I can just loop that into one and maybe make an extra profit. But the point I'm trying to get to is the video has to match the quality. I'm saying, if you offer a seven grand video or 15 grand five times in a row, there's a high likely chance you won't be doing this for too long yeah, well, let's say, I don't know.

Ben Mangum: 1:20:47

I guess my point is that I understand what you're saying. Of course you have more expenses, whatever. There's a couple different scenarios. But let's say, you know, the two, three videos you're making for 15 grand are very high quality, kind of like the stuff that I worked on when I was directing, for you know, you got the fx6s, or you know, you have, I don't know, three people helping you like, do you think in your experience? I guess let's just call it branding yourself as the more premium?

Ben Mangum: 1:21:18

like, like yourself, like you have all the equipment you have the crew, do you think? Do you think that small let's just call it small businesses they're doing a couple million?

Vipul Bindra: 1:21:30

a year that they would be willing to pay absolutely if they want to play at the higher level, if they want to be?

Ben Mangum: 1:21:36

what type of client do you think would pay that much?

Vipul Bindra: 1:21:39

so funny enough, and I know the people have called her like hey, like he been to the premium, I'm actually a value option. Funny enough, the people I'm competing against, uh. So there's agencies, I won't name them. They'll charge uh, for example, an organization, but this is a realistic scenario, I'm just not telling you the name, but they will charge this organization one million dollars for yearly content. Right, I am the guy. And again, very known agency, very known organization, nonprofit. That's the video cost, that's the budget, that's the RFP that they put out. I am the option. I can come and do this for half a million, right? So I'm saying, in the high-end scale, I am the value option, I'm not the high-end million, right?

Vipul Bindra: 1:22:22

so I'm saying, in the high end scale, I am the value option, I'm not, I'm not. I'm basically saying I'll give you the ferrari at the price of, I don't know, a toyota, whatever, but I don't want to be.

Ben Mangum: 1:22:27

Yes, I'm not playing in the honda league yeah, they're like a bugatti, not to say anything bad about honda, but I'm not.

Vipul Bindra: 1:22:32

Yeah, I'm not playing at the honda ikea, whatever low, I'm not a car person, whatever the low car value is. Yeah, I am. I'm trying to give you a ferrari and actually give you ferrari. There's a difference because, like I say, you can go and say I'll give you a ferrari the price of a toyota, but can you actually right? Yeah, I am saying no, I, if I come in and I am doing a video at that level, it's gonna be a video at that level. I'm, I am the budget like video king in that higher price tier. So technically I'm not the premium. But yes, for lower clients, when I do which is my favorite work, like you, service-based businesses, for them somehow I become the premium option. Yeah, because I am slightly higher.

Ben Mangum: 1:23:11

Some people even I'm like eight, six grand. They're like exactly.

Vipul Bindra: 1:23:14

Yeah, so you are the premium option. But you have to understand I am going by, look, I'm solving your problem and I will make you a great video and I guarantee you at that price point that's the only guarantee I'm giving you. Nobody can make this video with more people, more equipment and better quality at that price point, because you cannot compare my $100,000 video with my $5,000 video. That wouldn't be fair. You can't go oh, vipple, you made this and then you made this track. It doesn't match.

Vipul Bindra: 1:23:42

Yeah Right, but at that five grand, I'm saying nobody can come in, because I know for a fact they can't because they don't have the rental costs they can absorb and the equipment costs or whatever they can absorb. And that's the advantage I have. I wouldn't do this, to be real, I wouldn't be financially responsible if all I did was 5k videos. Yeah, of course, when I'm handling this, I'm like I'm absorbing this or I'm I'm taking this rental cost and I own this equipment that's getting used. So when I go to my smaller talking head, whatever, I'm doing it because it's faster for me, it's faster for me to set up a 600x with the light dome 150 and quickly set up two socklers with two fx6s, just because that is actually efficient. I'm not trying to show off or anything, but now that does play into it because that becomes an experience for the client.

Vipul Bindra: 1:24:28

They are not expecting that at five grand or four grand or three grand or whatever the lower tier price points are. And then when somebody else they hire who shows up with two mirrorless cameras, guess what's going to happen?

Ben Mangum: 1:24:39

They go, oh why would we hire this?

Vipul Bindra: 1:24:42

It's not necessary. You're absolutely right. Typically, when you're working directly with a business owner, they don't care because they genuinely don't know.

Ben Mangum: 1:24:50

But they do care about size.

Vipul Bindra: 1:24:51

Size doesn't matter.

Ben Mangum: 1:24:53

That's what she said.

Vipul Bindra: 1:24:55

You know, because they don't know an FX6 or an FX3, but they can tell the size. Tell me an fx6 or an fx3, but they can't tell the size. Yeah, tell me if I'm wrong, and then they will always hire the guy with the bigger camera.

Ben Mangum: 1:25:03

Now, that's why a lot of? People will fake it with the cinebacks and the matte boxes, and then you can I mean that's fine yeah, I mean that's the part of the game yeah, and I guess to be clear too, like what I was saying, like I have clients who have paid me 20, 30k over the year, but I've never had a client pay me 15.

Vipul Bindra: 1:25:22

Actually, well, I have had one client pay me 12K for one video, but it was a very long video it was like a 20 minute video as fucking hell, so I don't even kind of count it. I mean that's fair. See, you charge 12K because you spend a lot of time on it, so the value is there.

Ben Mangum: 1:25:38

I guess my point. Like you did answer the question, I don't know premium, which we'll call it fx6 yeah, whatever the yeah, you know great great lighting whatever into the local smaller business market sure it's kind of like that next price.

Vipul Bindra: 1:26:00

I mean it's not that much more money but it's still quite a bit for, like, let's just call it a local business but yeah, absolutely I could, and that could be the option like I I was telling people look, if I'm free, um, not to again, we're not trying to sell anything here. But option Like I was telling people look, if I'm free, not to again, we're not trying to sell anything here, but that's like I was telling you, look, I always tell people there's no ROI in equipment, especially if you're playing in those lower numbers. So if you go out now you're a sales guy, you go out, you tomorrow sell somebody a 10K or 7K. 7k would be more realistic, um, uh, 7, 7,000, 7,500, talking head. Right, you can bring me out. And now you, you could pull in. I don't know how much you pay an editor, but you could pull 5, 6k easily, right, 5k. Give editor a thousand k, pay 1500 to me and now you can have a massive set. Right, you've impressed them and the client will go yes, this was worth it, as long as, again, your editor is good in the end, final video matches their expectations.

Vipul Bindra: 1:26:55

You don't have to have zero investment. You can still make a lot of money. But the only way you can do that is with rentals. People need to understand stop buying everything, Cause if you can't play in the higher level, then you don't need to buy buying it. You always rent. Even me like, like I said, it was a mistake buying an alexa. It didn't, didn't get used enough for it to be worth it and we're in central florida where the rental market isn't high enough, so it made more sense to just rent it when I needed it than to keep it on hand. But but it makes sense. With the fx6, because the rental market is huge, I'm making thousands and thousands of dollars of the camera just in rentals and forget my use and use another set.

Vipul Bindra: 1:27:36

So the ROI is how I determine. Even though I'm a gear freak and I love gear, I don't keep anything that doesn't make ROI. If it's making me an ROI is an investment. So, coming back, I hope that answers your question.

Ben Mangum: 1:27:49

But what I'm trying to say is, honestly now, the more that you explain it, it I'm like that was kind of a stupid question. No, no, that's.

Vipul Bindra: 1:27:54

There's no stupid questions, because people do do that. I've had people where they go. They have never had a 10k project and then they finally will. And then they'll hire two of their buddies to come assist them for a couple hundred bucks, which is fine, and they're like look I made 90, and they would have been better if they made,500.

Vipul Bindra: 1:28:09

And then, a year later, I'm like awesome, so what else did you do with that client? That's cool, because that's how you get to bigger and bigger leagues. And it's like, oh, they never called me back. Well, why do you think? Right, because they don't know the equipment, because you're working directly with them. But they know what value is Right, they know what they expect and uh, like I was talking, our meetup client experience is important. So there's the experience of sales, right. Then you do your pre-production call, but when you shoot, that is the first impression. Sure, the video is the final impression and that's what ultimately matters yeah but if that sucks, they'll always go.

Vipul Bindra: 1:28:48

The video was great, but let me try someone else, and when they do and and I'm not the only one I don't want to be like I am some something doing.

Vipul Bindra: 1:28:55

Of course there's hundreds and hundreds of people, players that play in the game like a real production company, right, and they'll happily, you know, make a good video then, or whatever that cost factor is then they go. Why am I gonna, or their agency's gonna, go? Why am I going to, or their agency is going to go? Why am I going to hire this person who just wants to pocket the money? And they're not going to get the better ROI right. At the end of the day, for businesses, it's all about money.

Ben Mangum: 1:29:20

It's not about video for us.

Vipul Bindra: 1:29:21

It's about and that's what people don't get. It's like hey, why would you use An Alexa? My FX3 can do 90% of that. Yes, it can, absolutely, but that 10% matters. That's why we're using it. But I wouldn't use it. Like, even if I owned an Alexa, I wouldn't take it to my, to that brand video. We're about to make this hypothetical. Yeah, that'd be silly, because now our data rates are higher, our SSDs we need to dump. We need to do this, like, we don't have time for that, right? Um, so fx6 is a better choice at that moment. But now, on the same thing, you're like can, can I use two iphones? There's the other side of it. Absolutely should you. Are you going to use two iphones?

Ben Mangum: 1:30:00

no, but. But the quality is there the new pros.

Vipul Bindra: 1:30:02

You can even record in log and that's what I'm talking, it's the, the client but it's like they're paying you.

Ben Mangum: 1:30:07

You know what I'm saying? Exactly, exactly.

Vipul Bindra: 1:30:09

I don't even have to. But that's what I'm saying. See, that's the exact scale that it goes into. But the funny thing is you don't need to own any of this. You don't need to buy anything If you want to start playing in that league. All you need to do is just go sell it, because there's people with those equipment and that skill set, that are ready to be hired by you.

Vipul Bindra: 1:30:31

You'll be the boss, uh, and making still the most amount of money, though I don't. I do want people to know the profits, like right here in this hypothetical uh, uh, you know brand story video, which is not that hypothetical. We've done videos of that, right? Um, you're pulling 5k out of 7500 budget. Very good profit, right? Maybe a couple of days of work plus meetings, one for editing, let's say, one for shooting. But on the other side, same thing. If you're I don't know making a 30K brand video, guess what? How many meetings there are going to be?

Ben Mangum: 1:31:00

True.

Vipul Bindra: 1:31:01

How much equipment there's going to be, how many pre-light days there are going to be.

Vipul Bindra: 1:31:04

There's more work, and so the profit may be less than 10K, 12k, 15k, I don't know out of the 50K, but technically I think you made less profit overall per day. So I tell people all the time there's more money to be made if you want to play with small businesses, because you can pull a higher profit rate and still make them happier, because two FX6 will please and an FX3 maybe that will please any small business. The problem is why I like to play in this middle ground, because not that many small businesses have a 10 15k right to just spend every other month, at least in my opinion yeah versus the people who do have it.

Vipul Bindra: 1:31:44

That's the scale that they're expecting, and I'd rather not go chasing, you know people, because the thing is they're like, oh, we would love to work with, but we don't have that kind of budget. Then what's the point? You know?

Ben Mangum: 1:31:56

Yeah, I don't know, I don't know, I think both are valid.

Vipul Bindra: 1:31:58

No, I hear you.

Ben Mangum: 1:31:59

I guess I've just been kind of debating and I asked all those questions because, like, I kind of like what we were saying. Like you know, know, you do the brand videos and this and that compared to just doing vertical content. With the vertical content I very much productized the offer and I made it, I mean pretty affordable you know what I'm saying, like for the amount of videos.

Ben Mangum: 1:32:20

It's not the same work as a brand video, but it's almost like this yin and yang of you know. Should I go back to doing more? I guess longer format, trying to pitch bigger prices, or should I like?

Vipul Bindra: 1:32:35

you know what I'm saying and I think that's something you've got to play with. I think this would be exactly okay. What I'm thinking is it would be better to add to your best option right, so you offer good, better best, and in your best you're like, hey, you get this plus you get a brand video right, and if they pick it, then you get to do that. But I don't think you should take away from the offer that you're having success in sure because biggest, I think, mistake would be you're like I'm tired of it, which I get it.

Vipul Bindra: 1:33:05

If you're doing the same thing over and over again, no matter what scale, you get bored, um, uh, then you just stop doing it, and then now you're not making the revenue that you were, uh, but nothing stops you from also offering those at the same time. And you know, and you're good at them I've seen your brand videos so they're great. So why, why not offer them? You know?

Ben Mangum: 1:33:25

true, but I don't think you should take away from vertical because there's higher profits like you said, said you can make bigger profit. If you're the one doing a lot of that, I mean you could hire somebody else to shoot yeah.

Vipul Bindra: 1:33:36

And but, but it's easier to find. Uh also people at that for vertical content cheaper because, they don't need to be that highly skilled, highly technical people.

Ben Mangum: 1:33:46

But at the same time I have done that. I mean, I guess I'm just sharing this, maybe there's. You know, you just got to be careful of who you've hired because you could hire somebody at a lower rate. Maybe they have a good camera or whatever, but maybe they don't have as much experience talking with a client that you know. You gotta definitely vet your people. Yes, you gotta. I've had.

Vipul Bindra: 1:34:06

I've had uh, not that, but I've had mistake of um again. I'm very careful about who I bring to my set of vet people, but I've had mistake where I didn't realize and these are things you have to test out in public because you won't find that easily but where they start talking about their girlfriend, their family or something that went wrong in their life, I'm very easy to talk to Like I'll talk about anything with someone, but in front of my client, no, I mean we don't want to talk. We can joke around and have fun, but we don't want to be talking about personal issues or you know things like that. That becomes unprofessional very fast. I've had that happen where I'm like, oh, I can't bring this person again, despite their skill level, because that's a negative experience, because my client doesn't need to be hearing about you know what your girlfriend did at home?

Ben Mangum: 1:34:50

or whatever, whatever. You got a rash yeah.

Vipul Bindra: 1:34:54

Yeah, exactly. And maybe it's fine when we're chilling at lunch when there's no one around. Whatever, I don't care. To be honest, I'll talk about it.

Ben Mangum: 1:35:05

Yeah.

Vipul Bindra: 1:35:06

Like you know, we were after that event. We were like chilling, we're talking Cool. No, who cares?

Ben Mangum: 1:35:14

But I wouldn't have that conversation that we had in front of a client, kind of like that. Right, yeah, exactly, I guess to me. I think the reason I was asking all this stuff is just beginning of the year. You're trying to think okay, I want to scale which, because there's so many different ways you can go about this business and like the offers. If you you know people say it all the time like the offers.

Vipul Bindra: 1:35:30

Yeah, one of the most important parts, exactly I think the offer should still be the same, because I don't think you can and some people do that. Now, yes, as a DP, if you're trying to be a DP, it may make sense to buy, let's say, your Alexa Mini or Mini LF and then now you can market yourself. Look, I'm a DP, I come with this and you may get work because there are productions that are just looking for we need an FX6 DP or we need an Arri Alexa Mini DP, but as long as your skill obviously matches with what the camera you have. But that camera will get you work. But as a production company owner or as somebody who's working with small businesses, there's no ROI in that.

Vipul Bindra: 1:36:06

You will not find a single business owner who will pay you, because even fx6 or an arielx, they don't know the difference right, they can see the size, like we were talking about. So I don't think your offer should have anything to do with equipment. Your offer should be like you're offering now like hey, here's what the business problem is, here's what the solution is and here's what the cost is after you met them to solve that problem. Now what you can do is offer again a higher end solution where the production quality automatically should increase because it's a higher cost option sure, that makes, yeah, that makes sense.

Vipul Bindra: 1:36:41

So your okay, so your percentage profit may drop on that higher end option, but the number may be higher if that makes sense it shouldn't take you longer to make it, especially with small businesses. You can shoot most things in a day or two. At least that's what I think. Yeah, what do you think?

Ben Mangum: 1:36:58

Yeah, I mean I agree with that for the most part. Sometimes I've found like certain industries kind of suck, like not that the industry sucks, but just the type of project, because ideally you're like oh, we could totally shoot this in one day. Which a lot of b-roll and talking parts you can. However, sometimes you want the client. They're the clients like oh, like you know, you shot the before, can you come back and like shoot the after, whether they like did tile work or whatever you know so like there are times sometimes, where I go back to the same job like three times and there's not a crew, it's just me

Vipul Bindra: 1:37:30

so I do it anyway, but yeah, and and that that's okay to do. Obviously I've done that too, but at least in my contracts I I have clear definitions of this is the project, this is how many number of shoot days, this is how many number of crews you're gonna get. So so we're gonna come out like two times, you know, to your shoot. So third time I'm coming, there's extra charge. But like you, I have done that and I will, like I had have had, but again, only for small businesses, never for the large. But we have, uh, they're like oh, can you come get this pickup shot or whatever, and and I'm like, sure, but it won't be a whole crew, but I'm happy to grab a camera and go get a quick shot, because yeah, you care about the relationship yeah, because me the relationship is far more valuable than that and 10, 15 minutes of my time is not worth creating a negative experience, but only again.

Vipul Bindra: 1:38:20

This is once in a while. This is an exception, and again, at the end, it will help me create what you call better product at the end.

Ben Mangum: 1:38:27

Yeah, and you're not trying to take it. You know Exactly.

Vipul Bindra: 1:38:35

You can kind of tell if they are. Yeah, but I've had uh. So I'll give one example. I've had a slightly negative I wouldn't call it that negative but I had a client, um, who wanted us to make a course. And you know me being nice because, um, you know she was new to this and she didn't have enough budget. So we were like, sure, we'll create the course for you. I think we discussed on a 10k budget or whatever for two and a half hour course. Dude, that's like incredible rain, uh, and high production, four cameras, yeah, you know, full crew, anyway I, and that's because I want to help her out.

Vipul Bindra: 1:38:59

But then the, the miscommunication there was, you know, she had option of spanish or english and so I was like, look, you tell me the language you want to make, and we definitely can, can make two languages. And, um, so we chose english because, even though that's not her first language, that's where the market would be bigger, right, she can make more money. But I was like, hey, as a bonus no, that's my mistake, the lessons learned. I was like, look, here's what I'll do. Until we can make a spanish, I'll just give you a dubbed version for free. Now it's not perfect, but it's something until you know.

Vipul Bindra: 1:39:30

You have a spanish dedicated version exactly two and a half hours of freaking dubbing, but that doesn't mean there's any editing, right? Because we're just covering. Obviously, if it's our native language and spanish, the lines will be shorter, so there'll be gaps. So what happened is we gave her the english version. She's like amazing, this is exactly, you know, perfect, blah, blah, blah. Exactly what I expected, because I know we went above and beyond. And now I'm like okay, let me dub this in Spanish and darn it, man. And we had recorded her, so it was her voice. And then she's like but there's too many gaps. And then the whole negative expression there's too many gaps. It's not good. Why is it not edited?

Vipul Bindra: 1:40:01

And obviously the contract says it clearly. I know in the community, I was there in the meeting. I told her, but that is now months ago, right? So she's like expecting this to be edited, so you have to be very careful about it. So the experience wasn't the greatest, but I had to like break it down to her Look, there's going to be no editing. This is already for free. It's cost me, you know, a decent amount of editing hours with a Spanish editor Plus. It's not worth it. Anyway, this is just an option and and most software, they should be able to select english and spanish. You don't want it to be. It's not a separate video, it's just an audio track. Point I'm trying to make is yes, when you're ready, we'll make a spanish version, but this isn't it yeah, anyway, maybe that favor should have been a couple photos.

Ben Mangum: 1:40:44

Yeah, exactly, right, so I've learned my lesson.

Vipul Bindra: 1:40:47

Sometimes doing going above and beyond isn't worth it either. So now my current strategy is what I do is just simple. I promise them this number of days, this number of people, this number of cameras, like. So it'll be a two-day shoot with three cameras, three equipment. I always bring an extra camera and an extra person. I already planned for it. Obviously this isn't typical vip. Yeah, exactly. So they'll always get more than what they expect. That's my strategy. So they're like expect, and I'm very clear about it. So that's why they know they're like okay, so I'm gonna have three cameras, two day shoot, three people and they'll always be four people, you know, one extra camera and and obviously, same number of shoot days. I'm not upping that, but the point is then they get always impressed. So my clients are always having a positive experience and there is a producer advantage here too. If somebody calls in, I'm not going to be short people, right?

Vipul Bindra: 1:41:37

I'm going to just have what I planned on having, because that can happen. You know, somebody can get sick or whatever. Ideally not, but the point I'm trying to make is there is an inherent advantage in that, and I always do that because at the end day, a relationship to me far outweighs um anything else yeah, no, that's smart one thing I meant to ask you earlier what, um what proposal software do you use where you can give them the option of 100 up front or 50?

Vipul Bindra: 1:42:06

so I use something called better proposal so it has the option.

Ben Mangum: 1:42:10

I think again like they can click that.

Vipul Bindra: 1:42:12

Yeah, so they have, so they can. So you can basically create options and you can select that that they can select. Only one of them Got it, so they essentially select and it automatically makes that the total price.

Vipul Bindra: 1:42:24

And I've done that for options too, because sometimes lower end they don't have budget for like a makeup artist, so lower end they don't have budget for like a makeup artist. So I'll say mua, you know, I don't know whatever the rate is and optional. So if they check it, it just adds that. But if they don't check it, yeah, you know, nice it's, it doesn't affect anything.

Vipul Bindra: 1:42:40

But but then it'll say optional and then why to add it? You know you'll look great. You know I recommend it. I make none of this money because I'm basically just taking away the processing costs and passing that along to a makeup artist anyway. Um, uh, but some people do, some people don't, and that's fine with me. I just don't want to have that conversation. It's not worth me losing a client over a makeup artist. It's, but it does make my product look good so it's worth to have give them that option. So stuff like that. Yeah, I highly recommend it. I've had good, good results with better proposals. Um, and especially, like you said, that good, better, best option. I do like that you can add all three and they can pick, and, but I will. What I do like about it is you can already have one pre-selected. So I always do the better as pre-selected so they have to manually click on the lower the high.

Vipul Bindra: 1:43:29

They want to change so the total is already what I want it to be, you know, and I'm fine. I mean either way. That's why I put the three options in there they make a different option. That's fine, but I already have pre-selected what I want in there. Okay, but so they have to manually go in and then yeah, yeah, I mean I'm pretty positive.

Ben Mangum: 1:43:47

So with honey book, that's what I've used you can do. Obviously you could do 100 or 50 on specific dates, but that I pretty positive. They don't have a setting where they can choose which up front, or again it's been a few years.

Vipul Bindra: 1:44:04

I actually started with honey book. When I initial started, I took honey book, but then I was like they're charging so much money. They were like 400 bucks or whatever a year back then. I don't even know how much they are.

Ben Mangum: 1:44:14

Better.

Vipul Bindra: 1:44:14

Proposal was half of that. Is it that or is it more?

Ben Mangum: 1:44:17

HoneyBook yeah, I think so, and I think their rates are going freaking up too.

Vipul Bindra: 1:44:22

But the issue with HoneyBook was, like you said it's great for what it does Because you know, like, say, I could split the 50 50 payment. That's what I liked initially that it would be. Have a specific date, like you sign the contract. I used to be able to do like automatically two weeks or whenever the second payment was like it would automatically like that's your payment date. But then I found very quickly that there was no way, uh, for me to um go in there and customize anything like the way the software design and the payment had to come through them. What I like about Better Proposal is it integrates with Stripe.

Vipul Bindra: 1:44:58

So they still take the payment. So at the end of the, when they sign the contract, it immediately is like make a payment like HoneyBook, but it's not coming through them. It's integrated through Stripe, which is my payment platform. I can generate invoices, it's all in one, so all the money stays through one thing. So it's a lot easier to manage and I don't have a separate software in HoneyBook having any access to you know what I didn't like was my payments.

Vipul Bindra: 1:45:21

So if they don't like it, somebody does charge back. I have no control over it and I think they still use Stripe or whatever on their backend, but you don't get any control over your payments from at least when I used it HoneyBook or yeah. Honeybook. I'm saying I think it doesn't matter but, I, think you can do QuickBooks.

Vipul Bindra: 1:45:40

Okay, so that may be new. When I was there it was through HoneyBook directly, it doesn't matter. They had a payment platform too under them. They were honest about it. But what I'm saying is you didn't have any access to the payment platform, like you couldn't see the details that you can have. You ever used stripe, yeah, okay so, yeah, so you know, like you can go deep into who this person is a card fraud or not or whatever.

Ben Mangum: 1:46:00

I know who's paying me like they're. I've never done that. I've done like 95, maybe even 99 of my payments through honeybook, so but I have stripe yeah, so, and that's why I like stripe, because it's a large payment platform.

Vipul Bindra: 1:46:11

You know you can vet your who's paying you, which I mean generally. They're good businesses regardless. Like I said, I don't want to have risk because there's so much cost involved for me at least. I have crew cost, of equipment cost. I don't want to bear any you know losses or whatever. We're a small company so, uh, it's just, it's just not worth the risk, is what I'm saying. But this software, this platform I'm on third or fourth year now at this point, better proposals with Stripe has worked great for me. The only negative is, like I said, it doesn't integrate with QuickBooks. So I have to still manually go and, you know, attach all these invoices to QuickBooks. But you know it is what it is, it's part of it.

Ben Mangum: 1:46:48

Have you ever used a firm? Have you ever had a client finance?

Vipul Bindra: 1:46:52

no, I think I don't know, even if I have it turned on, but I wouldn't mind it. I don't, I don't care, because that's between them and a firm right, it's not it has nothing to do with me, so I wouldn't mind if they're that's again I oh yeah, there's no downside to you. I was just curious if you know, I don't, I don't think, I haven't, not I know, I know people who do that all that's like I need to check.

Ben Mangum: 1:47:12

If it's turned on, they go for it because you can get, you'll get a piff, you'll get a payment up front and then or paid in full, whatever, and then they finance it. Yeah, for whatever I'm saying exactly.

Vipul Bindra: 1:47:25

It's pretty wild and I'm so glad. See, this is why I wanted to have these conversations, because genuinely, I don't know. So I need to go to pull up my Stripe account and make sure that these things are turned on Because, like you said I why would that affect me? As long as if it's better for the client, why not? You know?

Ben Mangum: 1:47:42

there's a specific setting though, so they don't have I don't think they have a setting or something like photographer, videographer, like it's either not an option or it's blocked for a firm, so you have to put like professional services or something like that or like something it kind of was a pain in the ass okay and uh, but did you turn it on?

Vipul Bindra: 1:48:05

did somebody take it?

Ben Mangum: 1:48:07

I have it. I've never done it, I've never got it um, but I know people who do like marketing yeah, and they. They'll get like 10k up front, but they're paying whatever, like 1500 a month exactly, and I think that's totally fair.

Vipul Bindra: 1:48:20

Obviously, anyway, we can help a client because, at the end of the day, you know at least the the scale we're talking about when we're not working on the marketing agency. Uh, we're just genuinely trying to help people, man you're just trying to make them videos.

Vipul Bindra: 1:48:33

We're trying to help them make money and, if that is the way they can currently finance it and get it done and which is why I'm so try to be efficient when making videos faster. For my clients, it's like the sooner I can get the video to them, the sooner they can implement it, the sooner they can make money to make more videos. Right, I want them to have success, so that's why I try to do like a two-week turnaround, because I really want them to take advantage of the videos that we're making. So, yeah, no, I would love to turn that on and as soon as we're done, I'm going to go check my Stripe, make sure I have that turned on.

Ben Mangum: 1:49:08

Yeah, try it.

Vipul Bindra: 1:49:09

If I don't, why not?

Ben Mangum: 1:49:16

It makes no sense. Why not to? Yeah, because I'm getting, like you said, paid in full up front. So yeah, for sure. Um, so I know you get. I guess all your business, or majority from referrals have you focused on like social proof or you know, outside of somebody just like hey, I worked with benja, he's great you should work with him. Like have you put in an effort to do like testimonials or try to do a case study, even though you're just making?

Vipul Bindra: 1:49:40

no, I mean, I do have some testimonials we made years ago and we put on our website, so they are there for, I guess, some cold person coming in. Mainly what I try to do is ask, obviously, who sent them, so I know what their expectations are, because if it's a client.

Vipul Bindra: 1:49:52

I did an expensive video for I'm like okay, I hope they have the budget for that or they're lower end, so I know at least what they came through, because I'm pretty sure business owners love talking about money. They probably know what my video costs with the other client, right, there's a very unlikely chance the other guy didn't tell him what he spent.

Ben Mangum: 1:50:09

I'm always worried about that when I raise my prices. No, yeah.

Vipul Bindra: 1:50:12

But it happens, your price is your price. Funny enough, I have never raised my prices since I started a production company. I think we're very fair. We were always a premium option, but I've never raised my prices. I need to, maybe 2026, we'll see Because, like I said, the money that was then doesn't mean half as much. Uh, but luckily we've scaled so much that it hasn't affected me as much, but still um but um. What was I saying? I lost my train of thought no, just like I don't know.

Ben Mangum: 1:50:41

That was something I wanted to focus on this year, especially with trying to help more people with ads was, uh, I basically like you have to get, like, social proof clients. Oh yeah, you know.

Vipul Bindra: 1:50:52

So it's kind of social proof that I do is genuinely share like. So, for example, somebody will come, come to me and they're like oh, we're a dentist or we're a lawyer or whatever. So I could generally work with one of every industry. I get a similar industry at least, so I can pull like. It may not be, let's say, a ophthalmologist, but it may be a chiropractor or whatever. Yeah, so I could pull something similar. But I can be like hey, look, this is what we did for them. This is what kind of the video look like the. Is that what you're kind of?

Vipul Bindra: 1:51:18

Because my biggest thing is, uh, before that I'll always ask do you have a video? I can see right that, because the main thing I'm looking for is they're showing me 100k video or 1k, because the expectations have to be matched. I want to exceed their expectation. But if their budget is 5k and they're showing me a commercial for 100k that I know roughly the production budget would be, I can't match the expectation. I don't want to be part of it. So what I will do is show me a video and then I'll look at the video. I'm like, okay, I kind of get it now, and then I'll find either that was good enough. Or if I don't, then I'll be like, look, let me show you something I've made Right, and here's a video.

Vipul Bindra: 1:51:54

And worst case, it's happened rarely. But if I don't have anything that Ivan and I have, or they have, then I'll go looking into with my buddies, like maybe in our group or somewhere, like, hey, do you have something with I don't know surfing? You know something I haven't done? So then I can show that. Point is I want to show them a real video where it's like is this what you're thinking? So the answer is usually yes or no, but I try to narrow it down once I see the scope right, then I can be like, yes, okay, so this is what we've done. Uh, we helped this client. They made, you know, 10x money. So I am giving them a proof, because I don't like to sign up with people don't know what as you, yeah, so so, yeah, so I am giving them an example.

Vipul Bindra: 1:52:33

Typically it was like hey, they were able to uh 10x their revenue, they opened a new practice, or uh, whatever, abc, whatever the the thing is. Uh, I do try to do that. So I want them to know realistically what somebody else was able to achieve. But at the same time, I'm very upfront, like look, here's what I'm going to promise you, that I'm going to make a sick video, sick ass video yeah, I can't guarantee obviously any results, but these work.

Vipul Bindra: 1:52:57

The good thing for us is all these big companies that use video have spent hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in studies proving video works. Right at this point, if you don't think video works, you can go read studies like it works. There's not even a debate about it.

Vipul Bindra: 1:53:13

So, as a business owner, you need video or not should not even be a debate. And if you do have that, then we need to start much lower, at a ground level, why they need to understand why it works. But as long as they know that it works, I know I can make a good video at that price point, or that I'm not worried about my skill set, because the best thing about me is I'm going to go in which I've touched at this point every type of video. I'll go make them the video and if I don't know, I'll be on the phone calling somebody who has and be like look, hey, I'm how much to hire, you come do it for me, right? Because at the end they're going to get the best people to make that video, whether it's me, the crew that I typically work with, or new crew or somebody I know or whatever. But they're not gonna.

Vipul Bindra: 1:53:54

Again, I don't put my reputation on the line personally. I would get somebody who knows what they're doing. They're guaranteed, even if it's not me, and I'm happy to then stand back and learn and direct, because I can still direct it and then learn. You know how to do that specific thing. I don't know. I'm just, I don't even know at this point what that would be. But rocket launch, for example, I've done work in nasa, uh, but I've not actually covered a specific rocket launch like I was talking with justin about. So, um, then I would bring somebody who's covered, you know, rocket launches, like I want a dp that does that. That was, I know we don't miss that shot, something like that. I don't know, does that make sense?

Ben Mangum: 1:54:29

it does. Yeah, and I think for you, like, if you're not, or not for you for anybody, like if you're not promising x result or whatever, the proof is already, like they see your videos, they see how great they are and stuff like that, so that makes sense yeah, no, and I'm happy to show them what I have done in the past.

Vipul Bindra: 1:54:47

but ultimately my thing is for me, my reputation as as an I wouldn't do it anyway, if I don't think I can do it, I would just be like hey it may not be a right fit, and that's how I think I want the relationship to go Now to be real. That is harder when you don't know someone, which is why I'm like if they don't know me, then I'm just another videographer. Then, yes, they're just like oh you know, that person promised me this, this person promised me this.

Ben Mangum: 1:55:13

I don't know who to go with and you're promising me nothing, so they may not pick me, and that's okay, yeah that's kind of it's been a challenge with ads, to be honest, like sometimes you have there's, you can just feel there's less trust which like you have to do a better job up front, whether it's like it's either the content that they see from you or you're posting.

Ben Mangum: 1:55:34

Like you're posting valuable content that you send to them that's like actually valuable, and they're like oh, this guy's giving really good information, whatever, and then you have client results or client testimonials. So like you have to make sure you do that all upfront, cause I can tell it is different than referrals so absolutely, I guess you know we were talking about ads. I don't want to make ads sound like a.

Vipul Bindra: 1:55:57

It's not a silver bullet yeah, but it is a way like say it didn't work for me. There's the opposite end of it, where I did try them and I'm, to be honest, not listening to. I'm open to trying them again and see what that works, because I am, like you, trying to get people to pay me eight grand or whatever yeah and if those people exist on instagram, then why not you?

Ben Mangum: 1:56:15

know, I mean, you really don't even have to spend that much money either. However, if you do on bad, you will waste money.

Vipul Bindra: 1:56:22

So yeah, exactly well, that's why we know the expert. Now, right, I'm gonna be calling you.

Ben Mangum: 1:56:27

I wouldn't say expert, but yeah, well, I mean. Well, I mean better than me, right?

Vipul Bindra: 1:56:31

It's funny enough. That's what I'm saying.

Vipul Bindra: 1:56:34

I made ads for other people that have done really well because it's very different to the outlook where I'm like okay, what's the product you're selling, what's the service you're selling and generally the clients that you're working with, their product or services are good for Instagram because they're mass market and Instagram is mass market, so it's easy to sell. It becomes hyper hard, at least for me, because I'm selling to specific subset of audience. Right, my target audience is either marketing agencies or direct service-based businesses with higher ticket items or, worst case, the side item that I do is like I'm a DP director for other people, for people like you.

Vipul Bindra: 1:57:12

That is essentially it, so it's a very limited market that I'm trying to target, and the other thing is the footprints nationwide. I'm literally on a plane every other week, so it's very expensive and I don't want to be running ads where the people I don't know, regular people are seeing my face, who have nothing to do with video or marketing or anything I've never done nationwide.

Ben Mangum: 1:57:34

Yeah, you gotta. I mean, I've only done local.

Vipul Bindra: 1:57:36

Yeah, but um but I don't know how much uh business is in here for people to um and again. There may be.

Ben Mangum: 1:57:42

Obviously there's a lot of business, but for people to like hire me, even you know yeah, so I guess that's why I was asking all those questions of like cause I've been debating on just trying to get more clients in the Orlando area, just try to get bigger Cause it's like I don't know, it could be a limiting belief, but naturally there's more people here, so more businesses feel like they need to be on social media and stuff like that Cause like honestly, sometimes in Ocala, the people that come to me they know they need to be on social media.

Ben Mangum: 1:58:15

That doesn't mean they're always the best fit client, but there's also a lot of people who are very much further behind. It's like slower, it's more rural yeah um, not anything wrong with that, but that's just kind of the nature compared to, like, what we sell, we sell, you know, social media content, whatever so it's my thing.

Vipul Bindra: 1:58:30

It's interesting. You're gonna have to do something different eventually too, once everyone's on social media content, whatever. So it's interesting, you're going to have to do something different.

Vipul Bindra: 1:58:35

Eventually, too, once everyone's on social media and they're doing the same thing Because what also frustrating sometimes can be with a client they're like oh my competition, they're doing this, I want to do that. It's like lawyers, especially, oh my goodness. They're like oh, they're all running these ads with this text animated. I want to do the same thing and I'm like sure, on a production company side, we'll happily make you these. But then why do you want to do the exact same thing? Let's do something different. Because, you know, because if everyone's doing the exact same thing, then at the same time your advertising, instead of being impactful, just becomes more noise in their, you know, in the scrolls that they're scrolling. So I've tried and lawyers are the hardest one where they're like no, no, no, we just want to do this so I've done a ton.

Ben Mangum: 1:59:18

Yeah, I've done a ton of these these things that they want.

Vipul Bindra: 1:59:21

These, um, I'm sure the audience has seen them. They're like text stories, like I had this happen and this attorney got me 500k and they're just texting, they're animating and we'll do. We have a we have a very good. I've got very good animators that work for me, uh. But the point is we can happily do that, but then the point is it's boring, it's like there's nothing to it.

Vipul Bindra: 1:59:41

It sort of matters where you're putting it let me put some personality to you, because that's who people like nowadays. They're like businesses with personality, because you know we're all human, yeah, and they they're so scared, at least attorneys.

Ben Mangum: 1:59:51

I find that to put their freaking personality into it, oh yeah, and I'm like, come on, or the ones who do are so corny, they're like they have like a fake accident or something like who's got your back? Yeah, I don't know, like just some dumb shit exactly so.

Vipul Bindra: 2:00:07

So it's kind of like that can be a challenge. So eventually I'm like people are gonna have to do something different, because if all roofers, like for example, are doing the exact same content, true then it'll become the same issue like currently. The issue is there's 10 roofers. I find one with videos. I see their personality. As long as it jives with me, made life easier right thank goodness, there was video.

Vipul Bindra: 2:00:26

once there's 10 roofers doing the same thing, the issue will will be I don't know who's now real, so I need somebody who's doing something unique or something creative, like you said. That vloggy style already sounds very interesting to me. I may pick that one because I'm like Ooh, that's, that's more real. They're like this is versus. You know, just hire me, we'll we'll build you a good roof.

Ben Mangum: 2:00:53

It's very easy to add your personality into more of like just documenting vlog style, but you can still give value and give good information.

Ben Mangum: 2:00:56

But, however, generally speaking, the information's the same in every industry, but you know, general statement, but without being corny, you can like add your personality to it by telling a story or telling your perspective, I don't know. Compared to like sometimes people try to almost like lawyers, like sometimes they'll like force their comedy into a skit. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, and it's not even funny, maybe some inside joke or something. Yeah, like we'll fight for you.

Vipul Bindra: 2:01:24

Yeah, I don't know, just some, I don't know, yeah, and they're usually as somebody who has in the past hired one of those tv attorneys man, they're so bad because you see them in the past hired one of those TV attorneys, man, they're so bad Because you see them.

Ben Mangum: 2:01:33

And the funny.

Vipul Bindra: 2:01:33

Thing is that you're very good at answering the phone. So when?

Ben Mangum: 2:01:36

because you know you want to hear the same guy, yeah, yeah, type of guy.

Vipul Bindra: 2:01:40

So there was. I wouldn't name the attorney, but you know.

Ben Mangum: 2:01:42

I'd hire someone.

Vipul Bindra: 2:01:42

Years ago. So we need an attorney and relevant to this. But you know, then you have this name that's coming over and over again call me, call me, call me. And then, when the time comes, you're like, oh, let's call that guy. And the, and first I was like I, I knew there was going to be a scam, because I'm like, oh, that, watch their team, it's a big team, right so, but no, the exact attorney answer. I'm like dude, this is, this is good strategy on their part, because they want the same guy that you're seeing everywhere. But as soon as you you talk to the guy, he's like oh, yeah, I can fight for you, same, same spiel. But then, as soon as you sign the contract, oh, this is your attorney in my team right, that's the strategy.

Ben Mangum: 2:02:17

It's like yeah you get.

Vipul Bindra: 2:02:19

You see the guy, you see him everywhere, and then you go to talk to the same guy over the phone or whatever. But when, as soon as you sign, you're like, hey, here's your specific attorney, and now it determines if they're good or not, depending on the attorney that they sign to you right. Which may be good or bad. I'm not going there, but the point I'm trying to make is yeah and again, that is a strategy, that's a sales strategy. It's just not what I like.

Vipul Bindra: 2:02:41

I don't know if I would want to do that for me in. I'm so happy for you, I've known you now a few years, seeing your success, seeing you grow I think you're doing, you, bro oh, come on, man, I'm trying to.

Vipul Bindra: 2:02:57

I'm like, hey, you're, you're having success too, and I I've learned so much. This that's what I keep telling people. It doesn't matter where anyone's at their journey. I've learned so much in the past couple hours talking to you. I'm ready to go out and apply this to my business and see if I can get some new leads and see if these ads work for me or not, and I hope somebody listening learned something, because I'm telling you sales, sales is the most important thing and if you can do them genuinely, then it doesn't feel like work, because you don't want to be a sleazy salesman and these type of genuine strategies do work and you're a perfect example of it. Yeah, so I appreciate you coming here, being honest and sharing that. Those with me. Before we go, anything else you want to add or ask or say or, you know, shout out your instagram.

Ben Mangum: 2:03:42

This was like a refreshing format. I've been on a bunch of podcasts and it's cool not to feel like you have to perform or like tell your story perfectly or whatever. So this was nice and, uh, I hope by me going in detail with stuff, it wasn't too boring for people, but for the people that are interested it was actually helpful. So yeah, bro, this is fun.

Vipul Bindra: 2:04:03

Awesome. So what's your Instagram? Where can people follow you?

Ben Mangum: 2:04:06

At Ben C Mangum.

Vipul Bindra: 2:04:07

Please go follow him. Way better Instagram than mine, but thank you again.

Ben Mangum: 2:04:12

You just got a post, bro. Look at all your crazy content. I will, I will. This place is amazing, that's my goal for 2025.

Vipul Bindra: 2:04:17

I'm going to try and be better about sharing content. Like I said, I need to deepen my horizons and just not wait on just referral marketing. Like I said, business has been good. It doesn't mean it can't grow better. Plus, my personal goal is to collaborate with more and more people, so hopefully this year again we get to collaborate, just like last year. And if not worse, at least on ads. I'm going to definitely be hitting you up, even though I don't know. I'm more behind the camera guy, not the guy in front of camera.

Ben Mangum: 2:04:45

You're in front of camera Exactly Look.

Vipul Bindra: 2:04:47

I'm trying, I'm trying, don Exactly, look, I'm trying, I'm trying. Don't get me the jitters. Anyway, thank you again. I said this was awesome, bro. You're welcome anytime again, all right, thank you, hell yeah, thanks, man.